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BTs_GhostSniper
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« on: October 06, 2004, 10:45:06 pm »

I feel that the Webmaster, Mauti, unjustly banned Crypt, Maniac, Blitz, and Mysterio.  He didn't so much as give them a warning, but used his own interpretation of what is offensive to immediately ban these guys.  Here in this country, the word they called Civic is used totally differently.  Even my wife, who was born and raised in Austria, thinks this ban is wrong.

From Mauti:
Crypt, Maniac, Blitz and Mysterio got banned for 14/7/7/7 days, because of their totaly unqualified, wrong, extrem bashing comments against Civic. Guys take out a history book and read about the terms you used.

I find this extremely distasteful, and feel that those guys should be given a warning, not a ban.
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« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2004, 10:47:02 pm »

I agree completely.
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« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2004, 10:50:26 pm »

i agree 100 % too.
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« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2004, 11:04:07 pm »

I dissagree.. I took offence to it too b/c of my family history.
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« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2004, 12:18:17 am »

Fine if you want to question Civics role as An admin, or his judgement regarding somthing - but to call people here a Nazi seems totally out of line - there is a difference between being a member of the Nazi party and to having questionable motives regarding your activities on a website such as this.

There is no comparison with what the Nazi's did and by calling Civic a nazi for such a petty reason is totally demeaning of what the Nazi's did. To that i would take great offence.

I fail to see how someone can be called a Nazi with the intention of doing anything else but refering them to the Nazi's and the Events of/during and after WWII .

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« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2004, 12:36:24 am »

BFG, that is exactly what i tried to say in the complete stupid discussion about it (which is unfortunately still continueing, in the MGL forum now). thank you very much! Smiley
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« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2004, 12:37:39 am »

For starters, I'd like to say that the attitude that you shouldn't call a German a nazi is total bullshit. Perhaps they should've thought of that back in the 30s and 40s? The Germans killed 450,000 Americans, 12 million people were killed in the Holocaust, their invasion of Russia cost the Russians 20 million lives - mostly civilians. Numerous other European countries lost millions.

I'm not saying that all Germans are nazis, or that even now days someone whose German is more likely to be a nazi that someone whose America. I'm saying that I have absolutely no sympathy for a German who gets called a nazi, and that I don't go in for the bullshit idea that because of the war, you shouldn't call Germans nazis. Sorry, you started it, not us.

Civic isn't being called a nazi just because he's German. I know that if an American acted like that, I wouldn't hesitate to call him/her a nazi.  
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« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2004, 01:02:50 am »

What? Typhy are you going insane?

Yes we are well aware of what the Nazi's did, we do not need reminding and i don't know what your History is like but i would like to make it very clear that there was a difference between the Germans and the Nazi's

There are enough seriouse concerns about Facist groups and Political activity that links with the actions and beliefs of the Nazi Party allready, but that is on a level so different than this forums that it is just incomprehensible.

OK IF Someone  was walking around the place saying he believed the Arian race was superior and that homless people, mentally ill patients, Gypsies, Roma's, and the Jews did not deserve to live then perhaps calling them a Nazi might be a different issue. But this is absurd.

Quote
I'm saying that I have absolutely no sympathy for a German who gets called a nazi

Well i have little more to say then. Beleive it or not we are not living in 1930. Things have thank god changed. I think you have no idea how tough it has been for Europe to recover after the war - imagine how it is for Germans knowing what their country did!

Quote
I don't go in for the bullshit idea that because of the war, you shouldn't call Germans nazis.
Its not a matter of it not being "politically correct" or some bullshit - its about going around calling someone a Nazi without a shred of information as to found such an appauling suggestion.

 I find it pretty disgusting that you find a similarity between A Party who Murdered Millions of people, and the actions of Civic on these forums/ GR .

Im not suprised Mauti banned any of you for this, its disgusting.
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« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2004, 03:29:53 am »

Okay, you guys are going way off topic here.  The topic is NOT "why we shouldn't be calling someone a Nazi".  The topic is about getting banned without even a warning because someone violated the webmaster's feelings toward a word being used.  I'm not saying that anyone should call anybody a Nazi (doesn't really bother me if they do), but banning someone without so much as a warning makes YOU look like the dictator (the word Nazi, as it has been used the past few days on this forum, is what American's sometimes call someone who acts like a dictator).  You guys in Europe have been so brainwashed about the use of the word Nazi that you can't even think about it in the context that Crypt, Maniac, Blitz, and Mysterio were using it.

Again, my wife was born and raised in Austria, and has lived in the United States for 15 years.  She has seen both sides of this, both from the perspective of someone from that area (Hitler was born in Austria, by the way), and from the perspective of the way Americans use the word.  And my wife says that banning these people for using the word in that way is BULLSHIT.

So, ban my wife.  At least she has the honesty to tell it like it is.
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« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2004, 04:07:29 am »


Well, i'm not agree with that ban

But i want to add that the Nazi word it doesnt only mean a past with a World War, that word means too an actual party, in todays world, and the root of the todays Nazi Party still is the same to the one founded in 1918 and supported a massive brainwash in a region of Europe.
The todays Nazi Party has a lot of stuff to stand apart in terms of generations or history.

In this link u can find some info with certain way of view, didnt had time to find another with other opposed.
http://www.yre.org.uk/history.html

Maybe my post doesnt have much too do with this trend but i think we have to share what we know about actual things and not live in the past.

and ...

MMi Rules !!!!!!!
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« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2004, 05:12:46 am »

Ghostsniper, I'm not sure why your wife's views are so out of keeping with the majority of her countrymen.  Besides, "how" they were using the words is irrelevant - they addressed them to Civic, who is German.  How was he supposed to interpret them?
---

Background
Nazism and WWII are naturally still very sensitive subjects for both Germans and Austrians (and according to Anschluss, which was one of the "justifications" Hitler used for his expansion into Austria, there is no difference between the two nations).  Typhy is completely wrong to express no sympathy for a German called a Nazi - on the contrary, to be called a Nazi, as a German or Austrian, is an extraordinary insult.  Furthermore, to insinuate that modern Germans in some way share culpability for the events of WWII is ludicrious and offensive.

Bans without warning
It's not off topic to address the obvious reason you should not lightly compare a German or Austrian to a Nazi.  It gives some context for the bans.  It is and should be common knowledge that this background information is self-evident.  No warning should be necessary for totally exceeding the bounds of sensitivity and decency.  

I don't even live in Europe, but I speak German and have studied the culture because my family too was affected in WWII.  I completely see where Mauti is coming from - perhaps this will reinforce for those banned the importance of some cultural sensitivity.  Finally, its hardly dictatorial to ban people for egregious personal attacks, when there are warnings all over the place against flaming.  Nazi simply crossed an unwritten line.  BFG summed it up pretty concisely.
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« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2004, 04:30:51 pm »

Sorry loudnotes, but I do not agree.[/size]
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« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2004, 06:22:06 pm »

I agree with mauti, and as I posted on MGL I believe there are some things you should not say. If you have an issue with how civic has been acting, or an issue with his being a BL admin have the balls to bring it to his face, and confront the real issue. Calling someone a nazi doesn't do anything constructive, and should, and will, end up with bans.


Oh, and how is Mauti corrupt? It's not as if the anti nazi liberation front is paying him off to stifle all use of the word nazi. Something offended him, it's his site, he has spent four years putting this all together. Find the correct word instead of just finding the sensational one.
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« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2004, 07:07:47 pm »

I agree with mauti, and as I posted on MGL I believe there are some things you should not say. If you have an issue with how civic has been acting, or an issue with his being a BL admin have the balls to bring it to his face, and confront the real issue. Calling someone a nazi doesn't do anything constructive, and should, and will, end up with bans.

Oh, and how is Mauti corrupt? It's not as if the anti nazi liberation front is paying him off to stifle all use of the word nazi. Something offended him, it's his site, he has spent four years putting this all together. Find the correct word instead of just finding the sensational one.

You still don't get it.  It is not the use of the word that this is about.  The problem is banning someone right off the bat when they offend you instead of giving them a nice friendly warning.  Go to the person and say "hey, that offends me and I would appreciate you not doing it anymore."  Why do you have to come down on someone with a ban.  THAT is what sounds like a dictatorship to me.[/size]
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« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2004, 07:12:03 pm »

Sorry loudnotes, but I do not agree.[/size]

Well that much is obvious, Ghostsniper.  But I have tried to put Mauti's actions into as balanced a perspective as I can.  As I support his action and you've started this thread to question it, I offerred my take.

But what in particular do you disagree with?  Do you take issue with my assertion that Crypt, et al should have expected Civic, a German, to be offended?  Do you question my interpretation of history?  Does you wife not think that Nazism carries a terrible stigma to this day, especially for Germanic peoples?  Sure, there are Neo-Nazis, but to anyone else it is abhorrent.  You should note that the Nazi party is outlawed in Germany.

So yes, you disagree or you wouldn't have started this thread.  But after seeing some balanced alternative viewpoints, what is your feeling on the matter, especially with regard to the issues BFG and I, among others, have raised?
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« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2004, 07:18:24 pm »

You should note that the Nazi party is outlawed in Germany.

Yeah, another bullshit thing they do in Germany.  What do you think would happen if the U.S. Government outlawed the Communist Party, or the Nazi Party in this country?  It would cause a worldwide condemnation of the U.S. Government for not having an open mind to people with differing opinions.[/size]
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« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2004, 08:05:25 pm »

we dont have a nazi party, or a communist party, at least one with enough power to exert influence.
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« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2004, 08:39:10 pm »

we dont have a nazi party, or a communist party, at least one with enough power to exert influence.

You moron.  There has been an active Communist Party in the Unites States since the 1920's, and an active Nazi Party in the United States since the 1930's.  These organizations don't work like major political parties in this country anymore, they now work more like militia groups and the Ku Klux Klan here.  But they still go against the government of the United States...yet, because of Freedom of Speech, they are not outlawed.[/size]
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« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2004, 08:40:02 pm »

Well, I completely support Mauti's ban, in fact it was me who informed him of Crypts post. You can swear at each other in these forums, and we have always been very lax on people insulting each other. But there is always a certain line you don't have to cross, and calling someone a Nazi just because of his or her heritage or citizenship does this.

Loud, BFG, Spike, Harvey, thanks for your support in this matter.

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« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2004, 08:42:16 pm »

I said without political power GS. We have never elected an openly facist leader, unlike many european states. They may exist, but the KKK doesn't have much power in congress.


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