ADMIN Ruling on BTs & -MP5- FINAL RULING

[BFG]

The Following is a Stament made by Admins to be posted should the cb beteen the clans -MP5- and BTs not take place in the allocated time set out in the previous ruling by BL admins. The deadline has just passed so the following now applies:

It is the final decision of the Admins that:

Both BTs and MP5 did not meet the requirements as laid down by the BL Admins, so both clans are now excluded from the Season 7 playoffs.  The Collective and Core clans will move on the the Season 7 finals.

Furthermore, since BTs decided to flagrantly disrespect the rule of the Admins and the Admins themselves, they are hereby banned as a clan from all DAMN BL Ladders for Season 8.

For their actions, MP5 will be on probation for Season 8.

This statment was agreed by the following:
-    :MoD:BFG
-    |MP|Buccaneer
-    |!|Flies
-    c| Splinter
-    :MoD:Aramarth
-    ]BoC[VooDoo

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

I will make one statement and that its.. I feel i have a right to say one last thing on Y BTs did what we did..

WE feel that we are getting banned for playing by the rules for the finals and mp5 did not. The DBL admins gave mp5 an extension onto the time that they were supposed to play the 1rst round finals after we had waited for 2 days to get the cb's done.. We did not agree w/ this and we protested. I know from talking w/ the rest of BTs that we accept the final ruling here but we also feel that mp5 should have had more punishment too for breaking the rules in the first place. That is all i have to say on BTs part.. Have a good season next season.. and GL to c| and the core clans in the final games.. Look for something new from BTs soon    

this post is not trying to start something.. no replies need to be posted on this.. this is just BTs's position/opinion on this.

[BFG]

Harvey, i won't say much other than the ban came down to BT's refusal to accept the BL ruling on the 24 hour deadline. The BL can not operate and be moderated by the Admins if Clans will not accept Decisions made by Admins...

We clearly stated in the first ruling that we were drawing a line under the events over the weekend regarding the cb's or rather lack of cb's. I wish this could have been resolved in another manner, and the solution was made available...

Can i just clarify that this ban is a ban on the Clan not the individual players. The responsibility of the clan and its actions rests soley on the Registered Clan leader.

Best regards.

BFG

[Typhy]

Thank you.

I respect the decision, and I think at this point this was clearly what needed to happen. However, I'm very disapointed that things had to get this out of control. I think it reflects poorly on both MP5 and BTs, and is a discrace to the Battle League.

I want to apologize to the other finalists - collective and core, that this issue had to overshadow the finals.

I can't think of a better group of guys to go to the finals than Core, good luck guys.

In closing, I'd like to thank all the Battle League admins who helped with this issue, and all the Battle League members who put up with it.

 

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

Can i just clarify that this ban is a ban on the Clan not the individual players. The responsibility of the clan and its actions rests soley on the Registered Clan leader.

We are a clan.. we stick together on our desisions.. we will take next season off as a clan and just have fun playing together like the (six) clan and a few other non cbing clans do.

[Fusion]

Well that kind of sucks for us .. seeing as the rules where changed. We work during the week and it is hard to reschedule meetings and events in 1 day. Besides that is why Finals are setup for weekends. But when Mauti gave us the option to extend to the next weekend, the Admins shot him down. Thanks Mauti for making an educated decision. I wish we could have worked this out but hey.. I guess that will save us a lot of trouble if the future, not having to try and defend the well thought out rules.

Good Luck and Have Fun........

[BFG]

But when Mauti gave us the option to extend to the next weekend, the Admins shot him down. Thanks Mauti for making an educated decision.

With all respect Mauti only knew of the situation from what you had told him. He had not seen the events that had taken place in the forum or have half the information regarding the entire situation. We felt therefore that his suggestion was not acceptable and he made it perfectly clear that it would only stand if Admins approved it.

Im sorry it was hard to get guys online, however i did notice that evening that there were enough BT's players who could have done the cb.... they might not have been the best players etc but that is/was beside the point - this was not about winning a cb, it was about accepting a ruling in order to difuse a situation that had gone way out of hand. But this of course is now irrelevant

The rules are set out for us but cannot encompase every individiual situation. We have and will continue to follow them as closely as possible, applying them as closely as possible to each individual problem that arises. Most situations are a open and shut case where direct rules can be quoted but i do not feel this was one of them.  I suppose what im saying is that there has to be the certain amount of give where rules that are just text on paper can be applied to actuality in some complex situations... that is extreamly difficult, but is what i believe the roll of the Admin exists for.

Best regards

[|MP|Buccaneer]

We work during the week and it is hard to reschedule meetings and events in 1 day. Besides that is why Finals are setup for weekends. But when Mauti gave us the option to extend to the next weekend, the Admins shot him down.

Three quick notes.

1) you were given this option by the Admins in the first place and refused to schedule anything Fusion.  We all but begged you guys to.

2) The last two nights there were plenty of times when both clans had people on with RvS and could have CB'd.  The only effort I saw from BTs was the occasional game room, and lots of posts, that said they wouldn't CB.

3) I remember just a short while ago when BTs was one of the clans protesting that the clans didn't have enough say in these matters.  That all clans should make these decisions.  Now, when your peers have decided something you don't agree with, you threaten to leave the league, start your own ladder again, and pretty much just didn't work with the system you wanted.  

This wasn't a rash, or blind, or biased decision.  Both clans were wrong from the start.  Neither clan pushed the issues aside once dealt with, and actually communicated and set up CB's.  It does no good to finger point, because we've looked at it from the outside and we are telling you what we see.  

Because both clans couldn't work it out, it's only fair that you both be removed from the playoffs.  The extra ban is because after refusing our suggestions, and forcing the Admins to set the deadline, you refused to acknowledge or follow the decision.  Even though it was upheld more than once.  

So it's a bit late to be talking about an offer to let you guys set it up, after you turned that same chance down more than once.

And if you, or anyone in your clan thinks that how either clan acted during this time was acceptable, or what the Battle League stands for, you have a completely different view of what this is about than I do.  And from the looks of things, different than the rest of the Admins as well.

The real bottom line is that while you guys were complaining that MP5 broke the rules, you chose to knowingly break them yourselves.  You put yourselves ahead of the rules without pause.  So you have no moral high ground.

I am glad you think that the rules were well thought out, as the Admin's spent a lot of time and effort working on them.  That includes this situation and the results.

[Fusion]

Not all admins (i am not including BTs_admins) agree with your decision Bucc. I would like to make that clear.

[BFG]

Fair enough. However all of the admins that have come to the last two meetings we have had, and who i have spoken to regarding this issue were in total agreement after long periods of debate. If those admins who did not agree on this statment had come forward and discussed this then it would have been more for the better. It does not change the fact that this was decided by six admins, twice the default size of standard minor decision making

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Fusion,

I haven't seen one disagree yet in the Admin section, and if one doesn't, they've been quiet about it for days.

However, there's more than a majority that do agree (given the silence of a couple that made no comment).  And isn't that what matters?  That the majority of your peers thinks that you are wrong and out of line?  Isn't that the system that BTs pushed to have in place?

Knowing that, isn't it even more childish to pull the old "we are taking our ball and going home" attitude that you did?

[Fusion]

If we were wrong then MP5 was as well for forcing an extension

As I said before we accept your decision......We just don't agree, are we allowed to disagree?

[|MP|Buccaneer]

If we were wrong then MP5 was as well for forcing an extension

As I said before we accept your decision......We just don't agree, are we allowed to disagree?

Yep, you are allowed to disagree.  I have no problem with you disagreeing.  You can disagree till the cows come home, and I'll never say a bad word about it.

I do have a problem with you questioning my integrity though, and that of the other Admins.  That, I think, you don't have the right to do.  Especially after I came and suffered through hours of trying to talk to your clan about it, and we spent hours trying to work it out, while you refused to cooperate.  I also have a problem with you leaving out important facts, or misleading people.  So when you do those things, I feel I must respond.

And yes, MP5 was wrong, very wrong.  And they are being removed from the playoffs as well.  The only reason they got probation and you guys got the ban was your open and flagrant defiance of the Admin decision.

Thinking about this, I think I have found some of why you wrongly think what you do of the Admins.  It seems like you, and your clan, feel that it was a decision in your favor, or MP5's favor.  That we were choosing between the two clans.

This couldn't be farther from the truth for me, and at least a few others that I talked to for hours about this.  All we cared about was the BL, and what was best for it.  It was never about who's side were we on.  To us, there was only one side, the BL's side.  So we looked at the situation, we looked at how it got there, felt that both clans were at fault, not just one, and made our decision accordingly.  Trust me, Typhy didn't get his way, he complained that he was going to have to play the CB short handed because of the deadline.  And yes, we said that he would have to, if you guys couldn't work something out before hand.  So you tell me, is forcing you guys to play, when it's possibly 4 v 2, really giving into Typhy?  Not in my opinion.

But we don't need to go through all the issues again, they've been gone through with Eight and Lee Harvey enough.  You can choose to believe that we acted in good faith, or not.  You can choose to believe we acted in good faith and are wrong, or not.  And it's not going to make a lot of difference to me which you choose.  But if you insist on talking about our lack of integrity, keep trying to make us look bad, after all the effort we've put forth, I will continue to argue with you.  

[Aramarth]

And yes, MP5 was wrong, very wrong.  And they are being removed from the playoffs as well.  The only reason they got probation and you guys got the ban was your open and flagrant defiance of the Admin decision.

AMEN BUCC!

Ara

[BTs_FahQ2]

All I can say is that this is whole heartedly funny.  The main reason for your guys arguement was to never have to force a forfeit because it was a harsh penalty.  I mean, we will take our medicine so to speak on the grounds that this is what the community wants.  But now you have just turned around and banned a whole clan, which in essence is stiffer than any forfeiture.

I mean, little do do you understand.  The only thing BTs was really looking for was some type of reasoning or penalty given to MP5 for their blatant disregard for the rules.  But now you have given that to them after you have gone and penalized us more harshly once again.  All you had to do was publicly chastize them then like you have done now and I would guarrantee you that we would of played your Monday dealine.

Instead everyone just decided to pull out their guns to punish the ones who  as usual did what any normal clan would of done.  Not the clan that forced a tweaking of time, rules, and debate among admins.  Some of you on this counsel have swayed like a flag that the strongest wind takes you.

I guess just in one final thought from me.  It's funny to think that we get the stiffer penalty.  These guys played you to change a rule, played us to stand up for what we believe was the rule, and pulled away making us look like asses.  I must congratulate you for letting that happen.  The season we come back, I hope someone up there in admin land can finally think up some special rules that don't allow a .dinner tag or a .homework to ruin a season.  

And I am sorry so many peoples feeling were hurt over a game.  Now that is funny.


added:

in actuality, how were we supposed to know we were to follow the decision on sunday and monday to play that night.  We tried to follow the rules earlier and that didn't work.  So now you are trying to tell us we should know when to and not to follow the rules.  My head hurts.  Please have one lengthy explanation of this also.

[c| PsyOps(inHurry)]

OK - no disrespect to Core, but didn't we already eliminate them from the finals?  I am not worried about eliminating them again, but how does two forfeits=resurrecting a fairly eliminated clan=fair to c|?  Just asking because this really confuses me.  Of course I and c| would rather win the Title through cbing than by forfeits, but hmmm, couldnt we cb the 5th place clan of the season or something?  I am only asking for clarification cuz I don't get it (not tryin to start any trouble).  Thank you for your time!

[BTs_eight]

Why not give us a deadline we can actually do?

Instead of a deadline that mp5 could do... after it already missed the DEADLINE part that u guys made so perfectly clear is so important when we made the finals.

MP5 had at leasst 4 hours to complete the second cb on sunday... and all night saturday.... which we were here for...

The cb against zt on sunday lasted about 45 min - 1 hour....

Yet were at fault?

If you guys really wanted this cb to happend then why didnt u make a FAIR ruling as to when we can play the finals... and not a ruling as to when MP5 can make it?

[BTs_eight]

How about a more fair ruling that doesnt involve any clans taking the finals spot? bucc, voodoo & flies..?

[static]

Well, well, well.  Since the admins are so willing to follow the "RULES".  Maybe they should look into a player on MP5 that should not have been playing in the finals at all.  (cough, cough maniac)  Seems to me that he jioned MP5 on the 16th of March,   Hmmm, don't the rules say players must cb during the regular season and must be there one week before the end of the regular season?   Thats looks mighty funny to me,  MP5 tries to stack their team the day before the finals started.  Also, its funny how the server just crashed when BTs was up 4 guys to their 2 and we had them surrounded.  While Typhy was in AK, he did admit to these tactics in the past am I not correct?  (read the past post from typhy admitting this)  So in closing, we (Bts) shall take our punishment with a grain of salt and stand tall for what we and may others on GR believe was correct.  



static, down but not out!

[.vooDoo.]

OK - no disrespect to Core, but didn't we already eliminate them from the finals?  I am not worried about eliminating them again, but how does two forfeits=resurrecting a fairly eliminated clan=fair to c|?  Just asking because this really confuses me.  Of course I and c| would rather win the Title through cbing than by forfeits, but hmmm, couldnt we cb the 5th place clan of the season or something?  I am only asking for clarification cuz I don't get it (not tryin to start any trouble).  Thank you for your time!

Yep, I thought this may be a heated disscussion.

How about a more fair ruling that doesnt involve any clans taking the finals spot? bucc, voodoo & flies..?

I will post on this when I get home from work. I was going to keep quiet on this but it seems as though Im not the only one thinking it.