IRAB bombing-WTF!-WW3?

[PsYcO aSsAsSiN]

As one of the voices of logic and reason, I must correct some of the gossip that is going on in this thread currently.

1) We are not yet bombing the Taliban gov't, but believe me it will come.

2) We are justified for bombing the Taliban for two reasons, #1 being that we gave them direct warnings about any loss of American life at the hands of Bin Laden would amount to us bombing the hell out of them. #2 President George W. Bush made the statement that we will not judge any differences between terrorists and those who harbor them.

3) The plane that crashed 80 miles outside of Pittsburgh, PA was NOT shot down, it crashed after a fight in the cockpit between the terrorists and the passengers.

4) There will be a giant land invasion to kill Osama Bin Laden after we launch missile and air raids. This will be the decisive blow against the son of a bitch.

5) You will NOT be called up in the draft. There are millions of reserves ahead of your ass in the line to be enlisted.

6) There will be no World War III because who would we be fighting against? I do not consider a war against the Islamic Fundamentalists in Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan a World War.

7) Those responsible have done more harm than good to themselves for this act of cowardice. This has strenghtened the American resolve to live and preserve democracy - the likes of which have not happened since the last "Day of Infamy" December 7, 1941.

8. Strange things happen in this world. If you notice or study Islamic Fundamental law, Osama Bin Laden committed the highest Sin in his religion - the slaughter of the innocent.

9) Grifter, "Rules of Engagement" are a joke. We follow no rules when firing our military hardware into rogue states. (Libya battleship bombardment, Sudan Tomahawk bombardments) Once we have a good idea where the bastard is, kiss his ass goodbye.

10) I am deeply disturbed by all of the ignorant on GR that proudly display the tag "DTA" on their User ID's. By having that on your name only shows the level of ignorance that today's youth in America has. I hope after my editorial, you will learn a little something and take it off.

11) As my concluding point, may those responsible for the worst act of violence against Americans on American shores, may they rot in the deepest, darkest corners of hell.

[*DAMN Postal Worker]

Very well said.  *applauds*

[?{RiP}? Vapor]

Extremely well said... *applauds*

[SilentbutDeadly]

   I'm scared now. I'm scared for the world. I think that justice should be carried out, but I think that if we bomb whatever country in the middle east is responsible, this will incite a lot of conflict in the middle east.  ALSO, if racial prejudice prevails in America against middle eastern americans, this will lead middle eastern countrys to condemn america.  Terrorist attacks will become more common place in america, and many citizens will be killed.  This will lead to World war 3.  World war 3 will be a holy war, with each religion battling against the others.  THe U.S. will be involved of cource, but all NATO countries will get involved too.  Sides will be taken, and the war will become huge.  I'm afraid that this will end up escalating to nuclear and/or biological war.  If that happens, the world will be totally screwed.  I"m not sure if this will end with the end of the world, but all the prohpets have said that.  I hope this is just pre war paranioa, but i belive that if we're not careful, this will become close to apocalypse, or even the unthinkable end.  IF ANYONE has theories on prophecies about this, plz post on here.  hell, call me an idiot, i expect it.  I"m just getting afraid with the posibilities.  I have read a little nostradamus and i have 2 things that i will look out for.  first, BUSH is going to go to New york city.  IF bush tries to go to the city, but is deterred by a threat and doesnt enter the city for security reasons.  Nostradamus has predicted that i think. I THINK.  Also IF pope john paul is assassinated, START LOADING WEOPONS.  That was prophicided that this would escalate the war into the events that will end the world.  SO if the pope is assassinated, wich i hope doesnt happen ( if it does its gonna be in the farther future)  i would start gettin afraid.  Again PLZ post if u have any theories about what happened, or what might happen in the near future.  God be with all of you during these times .  

[Grifter]

Ass(assin),

Where I respect your opinion.... I respectfully rebutt it a bit.

1) I hope we don't resort to bombing... it's a tactic that is sloppy and causes too much damage to those it need not.  I hope that we are above them, and will find a way to bring justice to only those that deserve it.  You are also assuming that the Taliban will continue to back Bin Laden (also assuming that it was him behind this.)
2) Again, we are only justified if we find it was really him, and they continue to back him.  As for the comment about the president says it's ok means it's justified.... right, like he can't make a mistake.  Saying something is ok, because we say it is ok, is not a great argument.
3) Correct, as of the news today.
4) Maybe.... but I'd rather see a small unit of special forces take the bastard out... no a full land invasion.  
5) If there is a world war, the draft will happen.  Our armed forces are undermanned for a long (not months, but years) term.  If there is a world war.. it won't be like the Gulf.
6) A world war means that it involves North, South, East, and West.  Hemispheres.  WW2 was all over the globe.  It wasn't a world war until we entered (being the West part).  So, it all depends on who gets involved.... and to what extent.  Again.  I pray it never happens.
7) Absofuckinglutely! (and you corrected the date, thank you).
8. While I agree... the twist is that they (the twisted fucks) don't see it that way.  We are not innocent, as we don't follow the rules of the Koran.  I'm not agreeing here... just pointing out that they don't think that way.
9) We do follow rules of engagement.  You notice that we never invaded those nations... as that would have been crossing a different line.  Sending in troops is seen as agression, not retrebution.  That said, I also said in this case, rules will most likely be changed or broken.  (and pointed out that we've broken small ones before).
10) again, Absofuckinglutely.
11) Amen.

[Precious_Roy]

Wow. ?There's been alot said since my last post,so i guess I'll just take em one by one.

Grift-Unfortunatly, your post was really long, and I am really tired. ?Your post was just wrong enough that I can't support all of your opinions, but just ambiguous enough that its hard to disagree with any of it. ?but I'll try...

a) We havent declared war since WW2 because of one reason and one reason only: politics. ?Its not that we are doing things half-assed, it that our Presidents, since Truman, have found its easier to declare something a "police action" than to declare war. ?They don't have to deal with Congress, and most of the time, the electorate either.

b) If a draft, billions upon billions of dollars of expense, and a quarter million soldiers on a landmass the size of california isn't a fucking war, i'm afraid of what your definition is. ?Since you DO seem to beleive it was "half-assed" remember this, we didn't go further (as Nixon surely would have) because the American people refused to. ?

"Opposition to the war in this country is the greatest single weapon working against the US" -Nixon during LBJs administration, in a speech before the veterens of foreign wars.

c)"Has America done wrong, yes. ?Has it done anything this wrong.... this is a debate for another day" -grift

I heard what is supposed as the best estimate today of 20,000 dead. ?You and I both know that since WW2 (since we are talking about modern warfare) ?We have caused ten times that many deaths, even one hundred times that many deaths. ?But as you say leave that to another day.

d) Thank you Grift for posting coherent critism to my posts. ?I find it sad that I can carry on an intellegent disagreement with only a few people on here, but thats life. ?All your points have been noted.

Assassin-Your points are excellent too. ?Aside from #2, (of course) I agree with everything youve said. ?As for #2, according to a 1971 estimate, there were 17 million in afganistan. ?That number has no doubt doubled. ?It doesn't take 34 million to harbor 1 man and his minions. If (when) we bomb them we'll be as indescrimate between civilians and tengos as they were with us. I can't speak for anyone else, but for the love of god I won't sink to that level.

SBD-You thoroughly confused me, but before you start praying for mankind, I suggest you start praying for the dead. ?No matter when the apocolypse is we got a couple more years... lets bury our dead first.

[Grifter]

SBD,
If you buy into the Michelle Nostrodamus translations ...... at least what many think they said.....


He predicted that in September of 1999 or 2000 (depending upon which source you read) the "New City" will burn.  "Twin Brothers" will crumble... etc.

He goes on to forsee that this was a sneak attack by the third antichrist (Hitler was 2, Napolian was 1).  He makes a reference that this antichrist is from the middle east, but I can't remember that passage.  Also that the next attack would wipe out DC (I can't remember the words that lead them to think DC).  

Further, the old enemies Russia and America (he calls one the Bear and I can't remember what he calls US) will join forces to destroy the antichrist.  And the world burns with the fire of war again (WW3).

He makes reference to the length of the war, but I can't remember it at all.

Finally, he says that after the third antichrist is banished, there will reigh 1000 years of peace.  He goes on to predict the end of the world, some many thousand of years in the future.


Again, I read these as part of a college course, a good 9 years ago.  I'm not advocating this, but many do.  I'm just answering SBD's request.  If anyone has a better memory (or the book with translations... ) feel free to correct any errors I may have made.

[Grifter]

Mort,

You are exactly correct as to why we didn't declare war, and as to the opinion of many in the US as being a big weapon against us..... that was my whole point (even if it didn't come out right).  

And to compare Vietnam to WW2... no, in my opinion it wasn't a war.  We never threw all our wieght behind it (as you stated).  If we wanted to (as a united country) we could have burned down that whole country.   America didn't have that kind of will back then.  America seems to have that kind of unity and fire now...... I just hope it's directed well.  I don't blame our military for what I said..... it was the country's comittment that made it a half assed effort.

As for debating.... people with informed opinions (informed being a KEY WORD) should debate their ideals... it's how best practices are formed... how we better ourselves.  I also respect your opinions... even if I don't agree with them all.... but what fun would that be (fun- not today, but when less sad, offensive acts are being discussed).

[Precious_Roy]

Preach it brothah grift!
-----
I missed something in all my schnanigans.  Assassins point #8, that Mr. bin laden has broken a most sacred point of his faith.

Osama bin laden believes that he is perpetrating a jihad (islamic crusade).  He's not, but even if he was though, he is still violating a basic tenent of the faith.

Persons from 4 of the major 5 religons (christianity, judism, islam, hinduism, and buddism) break their convenet not to murder almost daily, which is truly sick.

The buddhists are the rare exception.  Anyone for converting? It's looking better and better.

[{Ryu} Kyoudan]

            Personally i dont think somin bin laden did this, he has had so many attempts lately but they have the pattern of small strikes. I believe bin laden doesn't have the recourses or the time to have payed and planned this out in unless he was supplied with recources.

I hope this made sense because im not very fast on the thinking hard side.

[Oso]

Well my personal beliefs are different... sord of. I think we should bomb the hell out of those stupid A- holes celebrating... I mean come on ..HINT HINT they are celebrating.. TAKE A HINT THERE... possibly 20,000 people dead! and those FUCKS are celebrating like it is fucken Christmas day and santa brought them fucken like brand new cars and money for their poor asses. I SAY THOSE PEOPLE THAT CELEBRATED THIS AWFULL  EVENT SHOULD BE ACTED ON AS IF THEY WERE RESPONSIBLE!!!!!!!

       Oso

P.S. Deeply sorry for the losses in New York

[SilentbutDeadly]

oso, i'm sorry that your leaving gr, but i think that's an irresponsable and immature opinion. Hatred will only breed more hatred

[oso]

arrrgh how come my opinions always get bashed... i hate it.... errrrr

[PsYcO aSsAsSiN]

Rebutting grifter's rebuttal to me ?

1) As of the news today, your rebuttal to point two of mine is moot. Bin Laden has essentially been confirmed as the mastermind...the terrorists identified had links to the Bin Laden network.

2) The only way we show them our might is to bomb the fuck out of them. I assure you innocents will die, but that is the unfortunate casualty of slaying the devil in Mortal Combat.

3) While a Spec-ops raid will be nice, it will take the combined forces of all branches of the military in conjunction with spec-ops raids, full scale land invasion, tomahawk bombardments, and air raids.

4) Only the extreme Islamic Jihad fundamentalists view the Koran in such a way. I saw Yasser Arafat in near emotional shock at the sick twisted use of violence. This attack has been condemned by nearly all (except for Saddam "who is so DAMN insane" Hussein

5) This is to Mort and Grifter: My points in number two are correct. Yes, there are 34 million in Afghanistan. No, they are not all harboring him. Bin Laden has some desert terrorist camp, it isnt like he is hiding in downtown Kabul. The Taliban will be roasting once it is official that Bin laden did this.

6) This is a new point. Do not be surprised to see a joint US/Russian Air Strike at Afghanistan. Bin Laden has also pissed off our Russian buddies with his antics in Chechnya.

7) aha, you were talking about invasion rules of engagement, gotcha ?

8. If the Pope is assassinated by a suicide bomber, kiss the middle east goodbye. That would set off the holy wars again and all arabs would be open for target practice.

9) World War III is out of the question, it has no merit being brought up here.

10) thank you for reading this post, make sure to read my other masterpiece at the top of page 3.

11) I hope that we all take time off to ourselves, no matter your religion, and say a word of thanks to the almighty God that we are safe, but at the same time, say a prayer to all families who were afflicted by this horrendous disaster.

[Black Sheep]

well, time to join in on this one.
alright, lets see, firstly, this crap about a wwIII: #1, you cant start a war agains a terrorist group, much less a world war. #2 even if it was found that a country supported the terrorists (money, protection, etc.) there probably wouldnt be a war, on the other hand, (#3) IF there was a war, it would certainly not be a world war. the only way a war can escalate to that, is to have 2 major super powers fighting each other, right now almost every country on the planet has rallied around america and NATO has just invoked article V.

I feel horribly helpless of what just happened to those 20 000 people. but i worry about how this will change the world. with the wtc destroyed, the world economy will suffer severly. possibly causing a reccesion. It's going to be impossible to predict how this will change the world as we know it.

this is one of those times in history; pearl harbour, jfk shooting, and now the wtc attack. where you remember what you were doing when you heard, what you felt, and how it changed history, and the world as we know it. in the death of these 20 000 people, a new world will be born. and i fear it will not be the world we once lived.

[kos.viper]

UPDATE:  Notrudomus made this quote in 1654 as it says.  Now, do u think a guy that died in 1653 would of been able to make a quote about the future in 1654?   Just thought id let u guys know that the Quote is fake

[*DAMN Bander - omg]

#1. Most of those post here where totally bullshit and useless.

#2. Most of u guys here are a bunch of hysterical whimps who feel to be on the side of good if u demand to kill some 100.000 people or more and then say "now thats justice" for that Terror Attacks.

#3 Assassin: U seem not to know anything about the region we talk there. No wonder when i permanently read here Afghanistan would be in Arabia (whats untrue - so maybe some of u should upgrade their geographic knowledge before crying for going to holy war.

#4 all your religions can suck my dick! and u too. If Christians and Moslems go over rule #1 that easy (U SHALL NOT KILL ...) then take your faked religiousity and put it up into your ass and keep moving it upwards.

#5 I hear many moody american statements here (assassin) "... i dont consider a war against irak, afghanistan and some others as a world war" - DUMBASS! yeah - u little nerd dont even know what will break apart if U.S. troops should land in pakistan. Those Pakistani are the REAL guys behind the Taliban and their pathetic goverment will not survive 1 single day when U.S. Troops have landed there. Imagine what will follow then (pakistan has nuclear weapons too).

#6 if theres a "long, bloody, holy crusade" coming from the west, the moslem people who are NOW with the americans and the victims of that terror, will change their mind if they see dead moslem civilians in their news for weeks, or victims from bombing raids etc.

#7 it already started a massive racist campain against arabs and moslems - yeah feels shit to be called "fukcing arab" for nuthing ...

#8 a lot of u guys where upset about those pictures from cheering palestinians: Haha - IDIOTS!!! U are that easy to manipulate from the media its unbelieveable!
BBC found out: Israel sent those pictures to the news channels and "forgot" to say those pictures where taken after israelis and arafat signed the oslo peace treathy.
NICE eh? But they already reached what they wanted: All your minds are filled with desire for revenge and so u dont even care anymore who will die next.

#9 i hope some of u will hold off a minute of silence too, each time israel invades another part of palestinian "autonomy" areas, and after each Bomber Raid over afghanistan where people will be dead defenitely.

#10 i am tired to read all this SHIT here so consider this one as my last statement - arguing with DUMBASSES leads nowhere. and its not even FUN about this heavy and world-changing issue.

regards - peace (a dream)

[Grifter]

Bander,

Again, I find myself agreeing to 95% of what you've said here.  I've said most of it myself.  Especially the part of not bothering to argue anymore......

As for the other 5%, we can talk about it civilally, in private, if I see you online.  It's not worth discussing here, as only a few of us will get it.

Try not to fall into the anger, hatred and fear that cause many people, both here and everywhere else, to speak before they think, to react instead of act.

Peace.

[PsYcO aSsAsSiN]

wow bander, this is coming from a Euro who is all talk and no action. (referring to NATO members being pussies except the Brits...all talk and no action)

The holy war thing was in response to SBD's post about the Pope getting killed. I know that Afghanistan is in Central Asia, not Arabia. And, I was not "crying for a holy war." Merely meaning that even though Afghanistan is not densely populated with Arabs, the people (terrorists that we are after) they harbor ARE arabs (Osama Bin Laden and the Al Qaeda Group). Read up on what everyone says before making stupid ass comments.

Funny thing though. Watch the FUCKING NEWS. Pakistani people are complying with us fully. Look at what their military is doing right now...they sealed the god damn border. Plus, the Pakistani's wont mind us being there because the U.S. has agreed to help them settle the Kashmir dispute and to lift sanctions which are plaguing the people of an already poor nation.

NO, I am not a blood hungry American. I am a sensible American who thinks that the only way to stop him is to kill him. I do not wish death on all but some innocents will die-as they have in every war ever fought in the history of this planet.

Also - DUMBASS - the definition of a World War is war that encompasses all hemispheres of the world. Look up definitions and be more smart before calling people a dumbass.

-No offense should be taken personally by Europeans unless you personally agree with what your gov't is doing.-

[Ace]

I went home for a weekend hoping that this thread and the stupidity herein would die. I was wrong.

I avoided the thread for two more days, once again hoping that this thread and the stupidity herein would die. I was wrong.

First of all, the Nostradamus quotes are legit, someone just made a mistake in dating them. Trust me on this one. Ok, matter closed, next please...

The source of the latest outrageous claims have been from Assassin and, much to my dismay, Bander.

Let me address Assassin first. First of all, we only have two hemispheres dipshit. I guess this means that the Falklands War was a World War. Thank you for enlightening me on that one. Also, don't try to cover your ass and say no offense to the Euros who you called pussies at the start of your post. Not only is it pointless, but it's pretty cowardly. If you want to make a statement, you better stand by it. Finally, don't talk down to Bander. Despite his recent emotion-induced postings, he is still a well respected member of this community. You are in no position to be calling him (or pretty much anyone else for that matter) a DUMBASS.

Now for Bander. It is sad to see that you have sunk to the same levels as some of the other people posting on this subject. Statements like "all religions can suck my dick" are just as bad, if not worse, than some of the anti-arab comments here. Also, it kinda tough to have a moment of silence for a raid on Palistine when one of their suicide bombers killed 32 Israelis the week before. I agree with your point that saying slurs like "fucking arab" is totally out of line, but then you get mad about us cursing the Afghans who harbor OSAMA FUCKING BIN LADEN. In my eyes, even if he didn't do it, Afghanistan deserves any shit that comes their way for harboring that bastard in the first place.




On one final note, I would like to quit trying to be reasonable and sink back into being an ugly American for the moment (I have avoided this for the most part, so dont jump all over me)
My uncle who works in the defense industry had clients from the Pentagon out with him the day of the attack. He obviously knows just a little about what these guys went through. Later, he said, "Afghanistan has been a wasteland for 1000 years, let's make sure it stays that way for another 1000"