IRAB bombing-WTF!-WW3?

[SiGmA_X]

I know I'm the local dumbass but what do you think will happen when the government confirms what faction/government/Ben Ladin-type person? Will it be an all-out war against them?? I really wish that this had not happened, but now (until we find the person responsible) basicly all we can do is pray...

Shit, I sound religious! I guess goign to Catholic school's makes me kinda like that tho..

I'm thankful that I am under 18 (I'm only 15) so that I cannot be drafted to war, and I hope no one from out 'community' on GameRanger must be used as a skilled tool against the enemy.

Best of luck, and Glad, my class will pray ?for your friends parents tomorrow (we pary in class, for diffrent things and people.)

Best of luck (again),
Romulus

[Grifter]

Ace,
Very well said, and I agree... an ass whoopin' isn't a violation of anybody's civil rights.... sick assholes deserve a good ass whoopin'.  Very classy moves on the smiley's and mock restraint (not that I expected anything less from you or Wrath... nuf said).

Glad,
sorry to hear about your friends (and their fathers).  I hope that they still turn up tonight, just one of the guys that couldn't make it out of the city, but alive and healty.

SBD,
haven't seen that on the news yet.  I'm watching the New York news on the Sat, not CNN right now.  Again, when they find out, I'm all for midevil torture on his ass.  

All,
as to war, a GOVERNMENT has to get involved for there to be a war.  I pray this is not that!  If this is a terrorist incident backed by anyone other then a government, or as long as no NATION harbors the people responsible for this, it won't be a war.. it will be an old fashioned BOUNTY HUNT / MAN HUNT.  Which will make me sleep much better (wondering what age they stop drafting at.....)

[||ICE|| GLADIATOR]

This is funny everyone on GR is in the R6 forum about some fags who like killin them selves hitting expensive and very populated buildings. Now the only case of terroists sacrificing there lives in a difficult situation is only th Arabs. They dont care about dien I know that for a fact, but. Ace ur right I am being an Ugly american or shall I say ugly Canadian. But ?this whole matter is fucked up. How many people died again? 40, 000? How many more peopel are gonna die because of this fucked up matter? 1,00's 1000's 10,000 I dont know we will have to see what what what Bin Laden will feel like when he is hanged by his ass hole!

[?{RiP}? Vapor]

This is seriously fucked up. And someone is going to pay for the pain they have caused the victims families and friends. This was an act of a bunch of cowards, to kills a bunch of civilians. If they weren't such cowards they would have messed with our army but they know that our army is the strongest and would make them pay for it and make everyone in their nation pay.

[Ace]

GRIFT, i wouldnt call that class, i hope it still qualifies as common human decency (then again, after today's events, im questioning common human decency a lot)

its looking more and more like its that Bin Laden bastard... whoever it is, lets just say i got good word that we are on top of it and they are definitely going to pay

i know this is somewhat selfish to think of it at a time when thousands have died, my after my mom asked me about it, i looked up my draft number today and the rules... GRIFT, the government confirmed my suspicions - you're an old fart, too old to fight... anyone between 18 and 25 can be drafted, but the way its set up 18 and 19 year olds most likely wouldnt be drafted (wahoo)... it goes 20, 21....25, 19, 18 for age priority (lottery number also is very important)

[JohnClark]

To the person(s) who has done a great mass of destruction and loss to the United States of America: America will find u and u will be brought to justice no matter what it takes to do  
To the family/friends of victims, I wish all prayers and wishes to u and u love ones who may have parished in this day, 09.11.2001 AD

[kos.viper]

In the City of God
there will be a great thunder, Two
brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the
fortress endures, the great leader will
succumb" , "The third big war will begin
when the big city is burning" - Nostradamu

[Grifter]

Ace, you're still a class act, no matter what they all say.... heh.

Viper... if I remember my Nostradamus (sp?) he also implyed that this would not be the first attack, and that the Russians would come in on our side and kick this guys ass (obviously not a quote... but the general message about the old enemies, bear and something ..... us and Russia...... joining forces to overcome the thrid antichrist.)

I think he also mentioned DC in there as well....  "new capitol" or something...

[Precious_Roy]

Before I begin, let me say this, four monthes before I register. Fuck.

Also before I begin my tirade, I'd like to mention that I have not been unaffected. ?I live in Maryland, not far north of DC. ?I still don't know the condition/situation surrounding several friends and there parents working at the pentagon, and this is both shocking and saddening. ?

With that said...
---
Grift, I agree with nearly everything you've said, once again you prove to be a voice of reason. ?

As for retaliation: NO

We can't invade. ?Let's learn a lesson from our former Soviet opponents, don't invade Afganistan. ?Period. ?20 year's ago, the second greatest military on Earth couldn't overtake afganistan. The greatest military power won't have any luck either, I mean a couple thousand fucking peasents beat us in Vietnam, our success would even less in the middle east.

We shouldn't bomb. ?Bush will call for it, and we'll bomb them, but the collateral damage will be astronomical. ?We can't kill inncoent persons for revenge.

We wouldn't dare send Spec Ops. ?Rules of engagement ?don't allow it, as they should not. ?Anyways, similar Isreali tactics have been part of what's gotten us in trouble in the first place.

Any retaliation will just perpetuate more bombings, more hijacking, more chaos, more death.

I'm not suggesting a solution, because I don't know one, but I know what we shouldn't do.



Furthermore, the outcrying here has been amazing, and of course, warrented. ?It's a damn shame that the same hasn't occurred when Nicaragua, Cuba, Vietnam, Cambodia, Lebanon, Palistine, Columbia, and Hondurus sustain similar attacks... ? by us.

I'm in no way rationalizing these attacks, but one must take a step back and look at our own history. ?The US has some of the grossest violations of Human rights and some of themost hypocritical of values. ?We've fucked up in the past, and are paying for it now.

They have no right to attack us like they have, but they are not the only ones at fault.

[jn.wrath]

We should assassinate Bin Laden. Except we can't because of some laws that FDR passed because he was scared for his ass.

The politicians are protecting each other by banning assassinations of each other.

If we were to attack Afganistan or any other country, it wouldn't be the bad guys who would be hurt, it would be the citizens who had nothing to do with this.

On some radio show or TV broadcast, one of the government officials indicated that they could get Bin Laden, except they weren't allowed to. Oh well...

Of course, Americans are all shocked about our citizens dying from terrorist attacks, but where is our news coverage of African nations with the Muslims persecuting the minorities there? Um.. nowhere. Where is the news coverage of governments killing their own citizens? Uh.. hehe.. I guess it isn't there.. Where is the MAJOR news coverage of killings of our own citizens by our own government? Um.. I think that's out to lunch.

More people have been murdered by their own government than have died in all the World Wars and misc wars combined.

[jn.blackhand]

9.11.01 : 911 : state of emergency.

Slurs anyone who uses racial slurs here deserves to be banned. The same goes for anyone who posts on this thread with a complete lack of respect for those who have been affected by this event. And for that matter anyone who uses curses without substanance or can't type a word without a mistake. This is a very serious matter. This is not a mock. Show some respect.

Now.

Mort. though unconfirmed, the US has been launching missles into Afghanistan. They would not do this UNLESS the terrorist attacks were state-sponsered. The Afghanistan government has been housing Bin Laden for a while, and if indeed the US is currently bombing Afghanistan it is only because we found evidence that the Afighanistan government was directly linked to the attack on the US today.

As for the US being hypocritical, I couldn't agree more.

War. Doubtful. If there was a war, it would be, if handled correctly by the US be over in days.

[Ace]

blackhand, I have a few points to take up with you.

First, while I totally agree that the general slurs against Middle Easterners and Arabs are completely uncalled for, the slurs directed at those fucking dancing Palistineans and that sick bastard Osama Bin Laden are well deserved. Both of them lost their rights with their despicable acts.

Second, the attacks on Afghanistan were internal. Apparently, they have been in a quasi-civil war, and this was part of it.


As for Mort calling for zero retaliation, that is completely unacceptable. This is America. No one gets away with doing this to us. While there have been a few suggestions, GRIFT seems to be the voice of reason on this one. We should take the route which would only spill the blood of Osama Bin Laden and his followers.

Speaking of GRIFT, quit flattering me, you're making me blush.

[SiGmA_X]

Just so that I know, where can I get a copy of the Rules of Engagement? I have minimal idea of what they state, and I would like some knoledge before I get involved in a convo about them.

Good luck,
Romulus

[*DAMN Postal Worker]

Guys, if  its directed to us, and it goes boom...chances are Bin Ladan is behind it.  And god damnit...if any more shit goes down, I'm prolly not gonna be online...reasons being, I'm dead.  I live about 10mi from the largest Military testing site in Maryland.  Warheads, chemicals, you name it...they got it stored there...

[Precious_Roy]

I'm not saying we should just sit by and get blasted, I'm just saying our current military options are not feasble or moral.

As for the fires and bombings in afganistan, they existed, but we have denied responsibility.  That doesn't mean it was us, it just means we arn't saying that it was us. God knows we've done it before. What is more likely (according to the press)is that they have been the results of inner strife within the sovreignty of afganistan... Though that is unconfirmed too.

[jn.blackhand]

Ace, you have to remember that the Palastenians dancing in the streets reflect the general image of the US in the Middle East.

Is it wrong for them to be dancing? Yes.

Does it make me angry? Yes.

I still don't think it warrants any sort of racial slurs.

[Ace]

Do I dance when the Israelis pound their sorry asses for one of their disgusting suicide bombers? No

Do I laugh at their pathetic, powerless, poverty-stricken nation? No

I don't give a flying fuck what they think about us. By dancing, they are dancing on the memories of fallen Americans. They are dancing on our freedom, liberty, and safety. Anyone who does that deserves to get their face bashed in. Since I can't exactly fly over and do that, I express my anger for them with racial slurs. The problem with racial slurs normally is that they degrade the target's humanity. However, these sick fucks have no humanity left to degrade.

[SiGmA_X]

Yeah... If you look at the CNN site (www.cnn.com), you will notice that NATO is supporting the USA's retalation.

I know it may not be very humain, but it will avange the deaths of so many of our people.

Also, where are the Rules of Engagement?!?

-Romulus

[Grifter]

Ok, long post number 2......

To the point of racial slurs:

People dancing, celebrating at an act like this are sick, unreasonable fucks.  I don't care who they are, where they are from, or why the don't like America.  Celebrating at the suffering of others is classified as a mental defect.

That said, looking at footage of a couple hundred sick fucks is not a reason to lump a whole group of people in that catagory.  Being a rasist is wrong..... flat wrong.  nobody can justify it.  If anyone here really thinks that ALL of the middle east (so called "Arabs") celebrated, needs to take the pillowcase off their heads and look around.  Every group or race has it's assholes.  We just saw some of theirs on the news.

I think racial slurs should be deleted, but will wait for my co-moderators here to cast their opinions before taking any action at all.  Beter yet, everyone let go of some anger (I know that's what most of it is), take a deep breath, and discover some class.

As to the point of the Soviet invasion of Afganistan and the US action in Vietnam:

In both cases, war wasn't declared, and neither the Soviet Union nor the US ever really threw their weight behind the actions.  At the hight of the Vietnam War (for arguments... I'll call it war, please don't correct this, it's not the point) we only had about 250,000 people in the country at one time.  Most of those would not be in combat, and that includes all services.  Before you try to correct this figure, that's not the total number of Americans that were there over the decade, but the most at a single time.  Most years, there were many less actually "in country".  Compare that to WW2, when 4 million Americans were out there kicking ass and taking names.  That's what happens when America really "DECLARES WAR".  America has not done this since WW2.  The Soviet Union never sent a full scale invasion into Afganistan either.  Doing something half assed is a direct path to failure.

That said, I expect a higher standard from us, Americans.  Justice needs to be delt out.  Sending in special forces to remove the guilty (once it's determined to satisfaction who that is), and ANYONE GIVING AID TO THE GUILTY, would not bother me in the least.  Not only do these sick fucks (I'm using that term often, sorry) need to be removed from the gene pool, but an example must be made to discourage this type of action in the future.  May this cost lives of some soilders, probably.  This is still acceptable to me if they are allowed to do their jobs, as it's a risk they all signed up for (you have to really want to be a SEAL in real life).

And more, if a nation state (like Afganistan) were to shelter these people, and resist our efforts, they would be validating this action, and I would express my opinion that we should then DECLARE WAR on that nation, and do it with the full force of the American Industrial Machine that made the world stand in awe 50 years ago.

One last point, if we do, by chance, end up at war with Afganistan (which I actually hope doesn't happen, war is always bad, but sometimes necessary), then I would expect to see the Russian armed forces coming across the boarders to jump in on our side.  It's a win-win situation for them.  They'd love to help us (relations with the US being what they are, they know we are a good friend to have), and they'd love to have access to the ports and oil that Afganistan could offer them, if they could manage to slice some off for themselves.  War like that is usually good for the economy (of the winning sides) and could help focus Russia away from it's own, internal problems.

As to the point of America being hypocritical:

America has done things that it shouldn't have.  Everyone and every country has.  Believe it.

That said, saying that America is responsible for some of the grossest violations of Human rights, is a bit much for me to swallow.  America hasn't killed millions as in the gas chambers of WW2 (this in no way should reflect on my german friends here.... as it is the History of a collection of a Assholes from 50 years ago, and not a reflection upon their nation).  America has not comitted the slaughter that has taken place in Africa (tribes killing each other with machetti's.... miles of road covered with dead).  Talk about mustard gas in WW1.  Ok, the whiping out of my ancestors (native american is the other side of my Scott's ass), was cruel and wrong.  But that, too, was another time, in a different world, without the standards we now recognize (not justifying a thing here... just as a human race, we should be growing and learning).

Has America done wrong, yes.  Has it done anything this wrong.... this is a debate for another day.

************ end of part 1 ************

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[Grifter]

************ part 2 (sorry, didn't realize until I finished my rant was really this long) *************

And last, for the rules of engagement:

As stated earlier, you can't compare peace keeping actions, police actions and wars in the same breath.  Different rules do apply.

Note, it's against one of the conventions (read these WAY too long ago to remember which conference it was) to assisinate a HEAD OF STATE.  If this turns out to be Bin Laden, he's not a head of state.... does this "rule" still apply......

Note, the USA can declare war against a group of people that are not a nation state.  We've done it.  The barbary pirates back by our thrid president (and our congress).

Last, rules change.  Always have, always will.  Most nations have never fully followed the conventions laid down in Geneva (including the USA).  I've seen footage of shotguns in Vietnam, and those were "outlawed".  Right or wrong, things evolve, so don't think that if the "rules of engagement" get in the way, they will be changed (or just flat broken).

Ok, this rant has gone on long enough (probably too long).

Justice!  that's what I want.

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