Nuclear Alliance

[cookie]

Recently my eyes have been opened up to a new possibility. In class we were discussing North Korea and the danger it poses. We all concurred that N. Korea would not nuke the US, however an article came up about N. Korea's nuclear capabilities. US intelligence has reason to suspect Pakistan has given N.K. nuclear technology and N.K. could potentially have nuke capabilities very soon. If this occurs and the US intervenes in Korea we could then have China pissed at us too 1) because they don't want us so close to their country and 2) N.K. is also communist. If China gets pissed at us, other countries, mostly those in the middle east, might jump on the bandwagon and then we could have a whole crisis on our hands. N.K. might cause a domino effect, which makes me a whole lot more wary of the situation. Just wondering what you all think about this.

[Cossack]

I would not be suprised that Pakistan gave them tech, but I think it was China. First off China gave their nuke tech to Pakistan. I dont think we will interven in Korea at the cost of hundreds of thousands of South Korean Lives. Keep in mind, Soul is in artillery range from DPRK units near Panmunjong and Kaesong.

[KoS PY.nq.ict]

You can thank the commies for all this civil unrest in foreign countries. Not to mention hotheaded dictators who are jealous of our prosperity.

I agree with you cookie. Yes, this could well be the start of WW3. What baffles me is why the military would blindly follow a corrupt dictator. They have the weapons...they have the power. Overthrow the bastard. Same goes for Iraq. We shouldn't have to get involved. If we'd only throw our support behind the people of these countries that want these psyho bastards out, wars wouldn't have to be fought by us.

Right now I'm sure N.K.'s pretty close to having nuclear material. But remember they're a poor country. They want to flex their puny muscles so people will fear what they have. Its all for control.

[Mr. Lothario]

     You know... I seem to recall hearing about Korea and a "domino effect" sometime before. Now, when was that? Oh, yeah, I remember. It was the last time we decided to have Koreans and Americans kill each other... and nothing ever did come of the domino effect, did it?

     Just saying, maybe it's time to study the lessons of history a little more closely?

[tasty]

I just don't see why it has become a common assumption that the minute a new country gets nukes that the US will automatically intervene. I'm very much against the proliferation of nukes, but who can blame a poor country like North Korea for trying to grab all the power it possibly can?

I'll continue this post later I just got called away.

[Mr. Lothario]

     The interesting thing about nukes is, they're very much a lunatic's weapon. There's nothing (or almost nothing) to fear from a sane leader/aristocracy/congress/what-have-you who posesses nuclear weapons, because they realize that to use those weapons would surely result in their own, almost instantaneous, deaths. It's the insane or unbalanced leaders who we fear; the ones who are plenty willing to die if it means taking out a couple of enemy cities. Unfortunately, there are a number of those around, and due in no small part to America's blatant stupidity, most of those insane leaders have grudges against America.

     Intervening in the internal affairs of those insane leaders when they are getting nuclear weapons is still a bad idea, but one that can be reasonably argued in favor of. Intervening in everyone's affairs when they're about to get nukes is just (for lack of a better word) selfish, not to mention stupidly shortsighted, in that it just creates new grudges against America.

EDIT: Fixed a typo.

[(SiX)Ben]

Uuuuuh. Hate to tell yah guys, but China AND the US are BOTH against Korea getting the nukes... There's no chance of getting China pissed as China also would like them to disarm...

Ben

[Agent Wallabie]

  Doesn't mean we they didn't give them the amr's. We've made that mistake as well, giving arm's to some one who in the near futer used them against us. It's very ironic I think.

[kami]

I don't think China is even half as unstable as many people would think, I agree with Ben, there's no chance that China would get pissed if the UN intervened in N. Korea.
I don't think that Pakistan would be stupid enough to sell nuclear plans to a country like N. Korea, the leader of Pakistan is not, in my eyes, that wicked..

[KoS PY.nq.ict]

It's quite possible that Iraq and N.K. have been sharing information. Of course it would make sense if China were providing N.K. the information. Im sure theyd rather have N.K. do their dirty work so China can move forward with its economic plans.

China hates us about as much as Saddam and Bin Laden. They just aren't as stupid as those two jerkoffs.

[kami]

Iraq and N. Korea having any contact at all is in my opinion highly unlikely.

[PsYcO aSsAsSiN]

I thought you people might know things, but alas you do not...

North Korea already has 2 Nuclear Bombs and could use them whenever they wanted to. However, they lack the rocketry to hit the mainland U.S., but it is expected that they will develop that technology by 2015.

Also...this wouldn't be the start of WW3 because I don't think anyone, including China, would intervene on the side of the North Koreans...it would be U.N. action (much like it was in 1950) pounding the hell out of the North Koreans.

As for the Nuclear arms technology from Pakistan to North Korea...that is highly doubtful. The North Koreans were on the verge of making their first bomb when they signed an agreement with the U.S., South Korea, and Japan (which they just violated and are blaming us...) in 1994. If my memory serves, Pakistan and India tested their Nuclear capabilities in the mid/late 1990's, making that timetable almost impossible.

Added in: It is countries like North Korea which make the National Missile Defense (NMD) a good idea. It is a system that works and it would protect us from rogue nuclear threats such as North Korea...thank God Bush got elected because no Democrat would have ever pushed for such a program.

[Cossack]

I think China will go on the DPRK's side if we decide to invade, wich probablly wont happen in the first place. The DPRK is a chinese vassal state, and nothing more. Then again the DPRK will not be invaded and this is why

1) They already have nukes
2) War will come to the cost of hundreds of thousands of South Koreans. As I said earlier Soul is in artillery range from DPRK units at Kaesong and yadda yadda.
4)Although this could very well be another Gulf War, the DPRK has what, the fourth largest army in the world? Its soul purpose it seems like, it to invade the South. We may just stealth bomb them to death, or it could be well a repeat of the 1950-1953 Korean War. DPRK pilots are well trained, and well maintained, and have a decent air force armed with MiG-29s and whatnot. The Iraqi airforce of the early 90s was rather dated and not that good.

[PsYcO aSsAsSiN]

Nah, you got it wrong on the China thing. China wont help out the North Koreans in time of war because of their own economy. We (and the U.N.) would threaten them with numerous levels of punishment, including removal from the U.N. Security Council, hardcore Economic Sanctions (yes this would affect them seeing as they are integrated with Western Economic markets), and military action.

But the main reason that it will likely not go to war is because we will withdraw our aid from the UN stockpile that goes to North Korea and wew ill starve them into submission.

As for Military...we could beat them into submission easily...

Let's see...

At least 7 Aircraft Carrier Battle Groups could be deployed (U.S.S. Kitty Hawk is a quick action strike Carrier based out of Japan) to launch Missiles and Airstrikes.

Continous 24 hour Airstrikes from the Carriers, Japan, and Guam

The miles and miles of landmines set up on the 38th parallel would cause a difficult time for the North Koreans to invade the South.

[jn.loudnotes]

I'm beginning to think this entire country is paranoid.  This isn't the Cold War anymore. . .terrorist and rogue states no longer present a threat of M.A.D.

It's more like T.A.D. --  Their Assured Destruction.

If North Korea were ever to launch a nuclear missile at the United States, yeah it would be horrible, and yeah lots of innocent people would die.  But shortly thereafter, their entire country would be vaporized.  If a leader were ever that crazy, it would be a shame, but its not like the US would be crippled.  Shocked and hurt yes, but in a purely technical sense, we can withstand the loss of one or two major cities.

I find it funny that we had such an outcry at September 11th.  It was terrible and the loss of life atrocious.  But other than disrupting our national overconfidence, it didn't really kill that many people.  Please don't jump all over me for insensitivity, but when we talk casually about launching full-scale wars. . .our outrage over the deaths of 3000 seems very hippocritical.

I would wonder how many people, non-combatants included, US forces have killed since September 11th.  And consider briefly how many would die in a war.  So explain to me why WE are the paranoid ones?  The US can and does do whatever the hell it wants. . .it seems to me that having crazy people get upset at you is a consequence we've just got to learn to deal with.  Or, we could stop doing whatever the hell we want.

[KoS PY.nq.ict]

You can't rule out the possibility though. China's always been itching to have a piece of us. If saddam can test chemical weapons on his own people then the chinese government can deal with the sanctions in order to give us hell.

[(SiX)Ben]

Py, no they haven't. When they caught our spy plane, that was excuse enough to start a war, but they didn't. They just looked at hte plane. If they wanted they could have provoked us into an attack by not returning our pilots... But they didn't. They don't want a piece of us.

I agree completely Assasin. South Korea would help too...

Loudnotes, I also agree with you, but am not very proud to admit it. Pearl Harbor had even less losses and it was as big of a deal. Any attack on or around America that kills Americans will be a huge deal. If not the media will make it one.

Ben

[Casper]

Today I picked up the paper and it was Talking about how North Korea Pulled out of the Nuke treaty. Then I see in they same place on the page its Saying Alaska Could Be The first target of attack.

Im like Yeah Right Sure it would just be a waste Of Time and a nuke. We Have Less people In are whole state then the town of Seatle. Alaskas Person psm is under 1/2 a person ever sq mile. I wana here what other people think on where will be first hit if this whole stupid thin happens

[(SiX)Ben]

They wouldn't hit. If they did (which they wouldn't) it'd be LA and New York.

Also, I wanted to respond to Assassin earlier but forgot. That Korea blaming us for ruining the treaty is funny as hell. We find out they're making them nukes so we stop making them oil. They say "Hey! You stopped sending us oil, we can make nukes!" They'll make their people believe it with censorship I s'pose.

[cookie]

As for Ben saying that China has and will side with the US:
sure, they do so for the moment because China isn't exactly in the best position to resist US will at the moment but yes, we all know China is itching to get a piece of us. If and when China becomes capable (which is very likely) they're not going to want to side with us anymore...

As for Assassins comment on the Pakistan- N. Korea agreements:
recently, before the whole issue was introduced to the media and such it was reported that the wife of the N. Korean "president" or whatever visited Pakistans nuclear facilites with several other officials. Shortly after the encounter N. Korea began to reinitiate its program. Suspicious? Yes. I never said N.K. didn't have any of the tech before, but the fact that one day they have hardly anything concrete in the nuke field and the next they have the technology makes things highly questionable in my eyes. you also might find this article interesting  http://www.indiaexpress.com/news/world/20021124-0.html