No Ties in Warzone

[Monoman]

I seem to be on a warzone fix right now which resulted in another variation on warzone. This warzone is just plain warzone (warzone stays in the center) but the game will no longer end in a tie if the warzone isn't held. Instead of ending in a tie, the team who has held the warzone the longer over the whole game gets the win. Now on the uber rare case that no one touches the warzone at all then the game will end in a tie if players are still alive at the end.

Is there any interest in this? I seem to remember this be a problem but its been awhile. 

[Croosch]

I don't really like the idea of whoever holds the wz longer wins... I like the set time, but could you make a wz where IF the wz never reaches the 3 minute mark by the end of the game the team with the most players alive at the end wins?

[Monoman]

The only time a team would win by holding the wz the longest is when the game ends with the wz not being held for 3 minutes. I thought about using the "most players alive wins" but most of the time the teams have the same number of people alive when it ends.

[~Po~ TiroFino]

Monoman, the only problem I see with this is in the maps where a certain spawn would drammatically work in favor of a team holding the WZ for a longer period of time, such as Spawn 2 in Downtown, Spawn 4 in Stronghold, Spawn 2 in Caves, etc.

To fix this clear advantage, you could work on delaying the appereance of the smoke by say 1 min. (as Lynx proposed in his WZ game type). This would allow all teams no matter what spawn they get to have a fair shot at smoke time, in case it comes down to that!

[Monoman]

Monoman, the only problem I see with this is in the maps where a certain spawn would drammatically work in favor of a team holding the WZ for a longer period of time, such as Spawn 2 in Downtown, Spawn 4 in Stronghold, Spawn 2 in Caves, etc.

If a team has that advantage wouldn't they end up conquering the warzone and not going to the tie in the first place.

To fix this clear advantage, you could work on delaying the appereance of the smoke by say 1 min. (as Lynx proposed in his WZ game type). This would allow all teams no matter what spawn they get to have a fair shot at smoke time, in case it comes down to that!

The minute later warzone has been made and posted in a previous thread.

[~Po~ TiroFino]

If a team has that advantage wouldn't they end up conquering the warzone and not going to the tie in the first place.

In many battles, the smoke will alternate and even eventually end up in a tie. But if then you will decide that game based on how long someone held the smoke for, then obviously the team that spawned closest (as in the cases I mentioned) will have an unfair advantage since they are able to get to smoke in under 30 seconds, while the other team has to overcome their more difficult spawn and try to neutralize the opponent... to now even have to worry about beating the wz time of possesion clock.

[Monoman]

Ok, I see what you mean now. Do you have alternate idea of how to break the tie? Number of players still alive doesn't work since that can easily end in a tie. Instead of how long the warzone has been held I could do the number of times a team has held the warzone. Or I could just make that what ever team has the warzone when the game ends gets the win.

[PUNiSHER™]

I actually don't mind having ties in WZ.  Its very rare if it ever occurs and if the game gets under 3 mins and the WZ can't be won anymore the real fun begins because teams must go on the hunt to win.

[~Po~ TiroFino]

Currently, the team that picked the map which resulted in the tie, will transfer the map selection to the opposing clan, as a small reward for not losing the other team's map selection.

Unless we can think of a way to make it very "even" for the teams involved, no matter what spawn they get, to receive the win in case of a "tie", then I would rather hold off for now.

Let's continue to brainstorm ideas, and something will come up. I as you, are in favor of finding a way to have no ties... but it needs to be without a doubt  "earned fairly"....

[[a] LYNX]

what it comes down to in every discussion is, that the wz and the spawns should be finetuned - on the maps.

[gsr]

Warzone seems to promote 2 tactical objectives: control the smoke and control the other teams spawn exits.  Often, getting the smoke seems secondary to finding out where the other team spawns and neutralizing them (your team has been wiped out).  A lot of times the winning team does not even take the smoke.

Recently (thanks to Monoman), we played a "random" wz where the smoke appeared at one of the unused spawn points.  This proved to be a fun variation using parts of the maps not often played.  The only drawback I saw was that the smoke took up one of the spawns, making the other team's spawn easier to identify.

I wonder if it would be possible to have the smoke at a truely random point?  And if the spawns could also be at random points and unmarked on the maps?  I suppose for the sake of fairnesss, the spawns should be equidistant from the smoke.

[~Po~ TiroFino]

I like your ideas GSR. The purpose of the set spawns was to sort of make the distance to the smoke - sort of even! But if the smoke will not be visible in the command map and will be random, the Spawn points for the teams could also be random and not set to the typical 4 spots well known.

If only Monoman could find a way to make this happen w/o having the smoke and the teams come up right next to each other, this could work!

[Tin]

I agree with you, Tiro. But yet I cannot imagine such a game type in a competition. These 4 fixed spawn points are there for a reason. I suppose It would end up in sort of a gamble, if your team will get the WZ near their spawn area or not. Therefore we should basically leave the WZ as it is. There is just some finetuning needed, for example, if you want to take the smoke on dt you have to stand like 15 secs right in the smoke, on other maps like cave you can already take it from an huge distance. I wonder if it's possible to fix those lil bugs.

[PUNiSHER™]

Double Spawn Warzone:

How about adding a 5th or 6th spawn point on maps just to mix things up a little, and then have teams spawn in 2 locations?? 

So a team of 4 guys would have 2 guys spawn in at location 1 and 2 other guys at spawn location 4.  I don't know if its possible but it would be interesting.  If you went and made 6 spawn points on every map you would probably need to change the original 4 spawn points to even everything out a little.

You could even take the current 4 spawn locations format and make it so teams spawn in 2 different locations.  This means every spawn on the map would have at least 2 guys on it thus making the warzone difficult to get early on in games.

It would be fun to try.   

[~Po~ TiroFino]

I agree with you, Tiro. But yet I cannot imagine such a game type in a competition. These 4 fixed spawn points are there for a reason. I suppose It would end up in sort of a gamble, if your team has got the WZ near their spawn area or not.

But since the WZ will not be visible for anyone in the command map, and it can pop up anywhere, not just the usual places, even if it's close to a team's spawn, they will probably not find it very easily. Monoman can probably work it so the WZ doesn't come up close to any of the teams, but also not in the usual places, thus giving everyone a fair chance. Instead of the basic 4 Spawn Points and the WZ in the middle... How about 12 Different possibilities (Excuse me Monoman, I have no clue if this is possible or it would cause you way to much work to do). -

Once the smoke is discovered and taken, then it will show up on the command map for everyone to see and the 3 minutes start counting... Maybe increasing the time you must hold the wz will help? Nonetheless, it would make the game so much more interesting, and would force the teams to go out in search of wz while at the same time they have to worry about encountering the enemy. So I view this model of game type as a mixture of LMS and WZ combined, pretty cool, ahh!

[Monoman]

Instead of the basic 4 Spawn Points and the WZ in the middle... How about 12 Different possibilities.

I've been working on something similar to this and so far its not going good. Beside that if I could get something like this working it would require new mission files. The reason is I would have to go and create the new zones on all of the maps (not hard, but time consuming). None of this really matter unless I can get it working. 

Once the smoke is discovered and taken, then it will show up on the command map for everyone to see and the 3 minutes start counting... Maybe increasing the time you must hold the wz will help?

Increasing the time needed to hold the wz could be done for any version of warzone. I'm not sure if it would really help anything. What would you want to increase it to?

[~Po~ TiroFino]

Increasing the time needed to hold the wz could be done for any version of warzone. I'm not sure if it would really help anything. What would you want to increase it to?

I actually think 3 minutes is fine. I was asking Tin what he thought since he didn't like the proposal at first. Just brainstorming possibilities....

[Tin]

I like your ideas, but its far from being realistic. Increasing the spawn points to 12 or whatever might be worth a try on a few huge maps ( wilderness, farmday … )but I can't tell that im convinced of its success. Anyhow, it would certainly not work for small maps such as aztec train wreck, valley, training, etc …
Same goes for a random wz, I doubt that you can get it to work on all those small maps.

So far Pun's suggestion is the best (and most realistic) one related to changing the spawn locations:

You could even take the current 4 spawn locations format and make it so teams spawn in 2 different locations.  This means every spawn on the map would have at least 2 guys on it thus making the warzone difficult to get early on in games.

It would completely change the way cbs are played these days.

[~Po~ TiroFino]

Well, Season XIV is right around the corner and we don't have time for making big changes to the rules. The most we can offer right now is to consider adding the two new WZ types Monoman has been working on (visible random and Invisible Random). Admins will decide shortly on whether to allow them or not!

Tin and Punish, thanks again for your valuable input. We need more of it!

[Tin]

Are there any changes planned apart from the new wz types?




( nice behaving, mr tirofino  )