Season Length

[Aramarth]

i'm in favor if the 2 month regular season with 1 month for the finals.  for those not in the finals, this would be an off season of sorts

I'm gonna have to throw the flag there man. I was assuming the finals to be part of the "months of the season" and not cutting into the off-month. This is a problem we have already, with rules issues and finals requiring a "cushion" of time to make sure we don't upset anything else. I understand that you believe your finals system will fix everything, but we can't let projections cloud the one truth I have always found on this ladder: it always needs more time.

Rules do not change often in professional sports, and even so they have long seasons of inactivity between the action. I don't ask for one season a year with 9 months of off-time, but I do ask for the one full month in between conflicts simply to be there whether people feel it is needed or not. Some of the best games take place when clans are mixing and not drawing lines against one another.

Aramarth

[BTs_GhostSniper]

My idea was to have the finals tournament played at the end, but still WITHIN, the two month season.  I think everyone really needs that one full month off between seasons.

[Brain]

first off, i am aware of what you meant GS i was simply trying to make another suggestion

secondly, i don't believe that our finals proposal will fix everything, i believe that i stated that it would fix many, but not all

thirdly, if i remember correctly, the old style finals would also fit into a one month time frame, provided the clans grow up and act like the mature and professional groups they purport them selves to be

finaly, i was just trying to bring back a little of the flavor of the old style league where there were continuous clan battles, however, since people seem to want to rip off my head and spit down my throat for my suggestions (not just you people, but i have gotten some pretty nasty anonymous messages on gr over this issue)  i'm just going to shut up now and leave the running of the bl to the admins.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

first off, i am aware of what you meant GS i was simply trying to make another suggestion

Hey Brain, I was throwing that in there for Aramarth's benefit since it sounded like he thought you didn't get it.

Also,

HAPPY BIRTHDAY BRAIN!!!

Don't drink too much on this, your 21st Birthday.  

[c| King.of.Pop]

I'm in agreement with alaric.  I like the 60 day seasons for avoiding inactivity and also simply maintaining interest in each season as well.  I like cb-ing to be done at a clans convenience also so a clan doesnt lose points or standing just because that week they didnt have enough guys around.  Let's remember that in some ways its best to have less restrictions to make this more fun and leisurely.  The less pressure put on clans during the regular season will make for a more fun finals.  Thay way its simply a matter of if a clan makes the finals, congrats.  If not, you shoulda been more disciplined and done what it takes to get the points needed.

[crypt]

Anyone else agree with me that taking off a few hundred points for every week of inactivity starting at 1 and removed after a month would be a good idea?

Give thoughts/suggestions.

[Aramarth]

As an extreme example Crypt, assume for a moment that everyone boycotts the playong of one clan for one week... they could effectively shoot them off the top of the ladder. What would you propose to prevent this, if you were writing the rules?

[crypt]

Hmmm, never thought about it like that, maybe having to play a clan at least 1 or 2 times during the season (if extended to 60 days)

How about an admin could confirm that a clan could not find a CB for an entire week(after looking), and then they would not be punished points.

[Mr. Lothario]

     My problem with a minimum-CB rule is that as soon as you decide to implement it, you must follow it up with more and more rules to cover the bases and prevent the example Aramarth gave and its less severe cousins. More complexity = more rules lawyering. Streamline and simplify the league rather than tacking on extra complexity.

[Aramarth]

I don't know loth, I think of our current points system is rather complex, and I long for the day that every clan plays the same number of cbs so that we can use a simple win/loss ratio for who wins. I seem to be a minority, but oh well. I don't agree that our problem is the number of rules, but instead the weight and wording.
It doesn't get more simple than "your clan will play every other clan once to be eligible to play in the finals." That was toothless for a long time, but with your finals system, it is near perfect. By boycotting another clan, you take yourself out too. In the extreme circumstance that no one is willing to cb a certain clan when the clan itself is making the effort, I think it will be obvious. Maybe to combat this, we don't require you to play every clan on the ladder, but instead a set number of them, something like 80%. Just a thought.

[Brain]

good idea ara, but that would tend to work against the Euro clans.

simply put, since we are not a professional league will will never be able to institute rigid scheduling and set CB's. people have lives, and those lives will come first. all we can really do i try our best to work around that fact

[Aramarth]

I fully understand the sentiment, but I wish you wouldn't use the word schedule. There is no set meeting date in the idea. As a side note, if two clans cannot manage to meet and play once in 2 months, how could they arrange finals in a week? That just doesn't make sense at all.

[Acri]

I would like three seasons per year. Winning a season takes up a lot of time and I think the winners deserve a month break AT LEAST! We didn't get to flaunt our season 6 win at all before season 7 started. Sucks. I'd suggest a system like this:

May 1-June 15                              Main ladder
June 15-July 4                             Finals  (Standard finals for GhR, please!!!!)

July 4-September 1                     Break

September 1-October 15          Main ladder
October 15-November 4            Finals

November 4-January 1              Break

January 1- February 15              Main ladder
February 15 - March 4                Finals

Repeat.

Notes:
I support the standard finals system and this system was deviced with the current finals system in mind.
Dates can be moved.
Finals can be extended due to long breaks.
I realize all seasons won't be equally long. Big deal?

[crypt]

We didn't get to flaunt our season 6 win at all before season 7 started.

I agree with Acri here, because a longer season should bring a longer offseason. IE longer for winner clan to reflect on their win and enjoy etc.

May 1-June 15                              Main ladder
June 15-July 4                             Finals  (Standard finals for GhR, please!!!!)

I disagree here, I see that you said dates could be changed, but I think a 60 day season is crucial.

As for the finals, all ladders should be the same so that everything can be streamlined, a forfeiture in one round won't cause a big problem on the forums or a hold-up of future events.

[[one] Gambit]

After reading the whole thread (and I applaude everyone involved for staying right on topic) I'm seeing a lot of interest in the idea of fixed seasons. Hooray! Acri's latest schedule takes into account two important things that anyone who has been around for a while will remember:

Last summer late July and August were completely dead due to people's summer trips. Those months should be avoided.

Likewise, the month of December is a bad time for anything season-related. In the states, The dead zone actually seemed to begin at Thanksgiving.

I know some still object to the 'MP' tournament format for the end of each season, but I am in favor of it and would only change Acri's schedule to make the seasons 6 weeks plus however many days to the Wednesday of the last week. That would allow Thursday and Friday for matchups to be determined and timeslots assigned. Finals would begin that Saturday and last 2 weekends. In addition, the fact that there are only 3 seasons per year means the gaps are more than long enough to accomodate any emergency finals juggling (which I believe the MP format for finals would eliminate).

As far as scheduling times for tournament matches under the 8 or 16-team format, I don't think it would be too hard to have a blank ladder set up with times indicated in advance. THe only variable would be who is seeded where and that would all be figured out on the last day of the season. If you finish 4th, look at the ladder and see what time #4 plays. Simple. If you can't rustle up enough people to make a match, then be happy that you finished 4th and look forward to next season. 90% of scheduling problems seem to come from the flexibility we have tried to maintain. I think that at least for the finals, it's time to cut back on the potential for drama and argument. This would also allow the admins to schedule their time if they are going to be expected to be present for all matches.

To those of you who protest at the loss of clans negotiating their own finals match times, I say have a word with Flies, or Splinter, or Bucc... or Eight, or Typhy...

[Acri]

I always believed this finals system was for RvS only. GhR-finals were painless this season. There is no need to change it. Stupid to EXPERIMENT with a working system. You might end up with a ruined season right before the summer holiday. That could potentially kill the GhR-ladder.

I am all for using that system for RvS. I am 100% against it for GhR. I will have to seriously consider my participation in the ladder should it be changed. This is a game I play to relax when I have time and will to play. I already feel that the current finals are stressful enough and I believe the new system will suck the fun out of gaming.

60 days could work fine too, but then mb only two seasons? Three seasons of 60 days plus 20 days for finals = 240/365 days per year. Doesn't leave too much of an off season, but since the seasons are so long, you still get to enjoy the title for at LEAST 2 months right?

[crypt]

Well, you really get to enjoy the title until you lose it the next season (if that happens)

[Aramarth]

You would have the title for three months. One for the offseason, and two as the reigning champion while the next season is in progress.

[BFG]

Make u appreciate it more when u had it

[Acri]

*flames the new finals system for GhR*

Flames duplicated beyond this point removed. -Ara