AI: Answer to Isreal

[.::|N| SeRP]

To make remarks agains't any group is prejudiced, no matter their political beliefs. BTW mexicans don't count.

[cookie]

the conservative ideology is maintaining as much of the status quo as possible while remaining productive, as opposed to liberal theory that society is constantly progressing and we need to evolve as much as possible along with it.

that is conservative ideology. it does not involve pro life, pro buisness, pro war, or any of that other hootnany. Sure, most of the republican party is conservative and sure most of them take that stance, but that just happens to be the political climate of the moment.

For instance, the democrats were the conservatives during the civil war... they wanted to maintain slavery. Since then, they've become generally liberal... it all depends on what base the party seeks to appeal to.

[tasty]

Cookie, it's wrong to say that the liberals were for maintaining slavery during the Civil War. The Democratic-Republicans were for maintaining slavery, and the Republicans were all for abolishment. However, during this period the Republicans were the liberal party and the Democrats were the more conservative, pro-business party. The two oddly switched roles a bit after the civil war, with the newly powerful Republicans fostering in "The Gilded Age" of pro-business policies and the Democrats switching to the more populist party. These are the roles the two have maintained ever since. Newly formed parties are almost always more liberal than the status quo, and the Democrats have not always been the party where liberals resided.

[cookie]

I didn't say liberals were for maintaining slavery during the civil war era... i said DEMOCRATS were, and that they were the conservatives at the time.

but thank you for the history lesson... even if you did just reiterate what i said

[EUR_Zaitsev]

THE FACT  remains that we have not heard a thing from Bucc defending his stance on Israel v. Palestine. It seems that when he is put on the spot he cowers in the corner.

[tasty]

Yeah, oops. It appears I misread what you said. Heh heh. Oh well. So how about that bull-moose party?

 

[The Ghost of Bondo]

No Tasty, gotta go with the Whigs.

[The Ghost of Bondo]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3001692.stm

Was looking at BBC News and found this link related to our discussion of this matter.  Sadly just one of the many incidents like this where Israel has killed civilians rather than terrorists...and notice the death toll...like always the Palestinian toll is much greater.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

THE FACT  remains that we have not heard a thing from Bucc defending his stance on Israel v. Palestine. It seems that when he is put on the spot he cowers in the corner.

Ah, guess I have to answer this, since some people spammed the link at me.

Listen dumbass, first, tell me, what is my stance on Israel v Palestine that I am supposed to be defending?  Have I made a stance that needs defending?  I didn't think so.

If you are referring to my earlier post about this being asked and answered, try reading it again.  It points out that you seem to accuse anyone that doesn't agree of you with being a Bush supporter, then it goes on to say that the reason the US (note, that's the USA, not MY OPINION) backs them has been answered many times.  

I've been taking a little break from the forums because I figured if I was going to bother talking to a child that has no clue about history, it may as well be my daughter.  

So take your cowering in the corner bullshit and stuff it.  You again show that reading posts is a task just a little too advanced for you.

[The Ghost of Bondo]

And your question about whey the USA supports Isreal has been answered more then once.

Bucc, I'm pretty sure this statement is what Zait wished you to expand on.

A few instances of late you have simply said 'this has been discussed before' rather than actually stating what you intend.  I speak for a few people I think when I say, like hell I'm searching the forums just to find what statement you might be referring to.

So I think Zait would like you to, even if it has been answered before, tell us why the USA supports Israel.

Although I certainly realize you have greater priorities nowadays (and rather enjoy that you have priorities that keep you away from the forums )

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Bucc, I'm pretty sure this statement is what Zait wished you to expand on.

If it is, then why would I be chicken shit about it?  There are plenty of well documented facts, along with plenty of other strong theories on why the government of the USA supports Israel.  How would my not posting them make me a chicken shit?  Unless I happen to agree with them, I have no stake in them, right?  So, I think you are wrong (again) Bondo.  Or Zaitsev is even more stupid then I think.

A few instances of late you have simply said 'this has been discussed before' rather than actually stating what you intend.  I speak for a few people I think when I say, like hell I'm searching the forums just to find what statement you might be referring to.

Zaitsev has asked this question in the past, and had it answered.  It's old already.  I don't think it's my duty to be his personal history tutor here, especially in a thread that I'm not juiced up about discussing (because it's an old topic, with more sides then sphere).  

So I think Zait would like you to, even if it has been answered before, tell us why the USA supports Israel.

He can want it all day long.  READ A BOOK OR TEN.

Although I certainly realize you have greater priorities nowadays (and rather enjoy that you have priorities that keep you away from the forums )

Maybe I'm just trying to keep her away from a pedophile that may want to start an internet relationship with her.

And you are starting to become Rapid now.  Let Zaitsev speak for himself, he's the one that posted the bullshit.  Oh, that's right, as long as it's one of your little boys, it's ok, I forgot about that.

[The Ghost of Bondo]

Tut Tut Bucc, so much for being Mr. Proper Word Use.

Paedophilia refers to sexual attraction to PREpubescent girls.  I on the other hand like adolescent girls who are not prepubescent.  Thus I wouldn't be a paedophile.

Rapid speaks for other people?  I didn't know that.  What I do know is I check the forum more often than Zait and in the interest in speeding the process up decided to help out.  As you state it is clear that the US supports Israel and its reasons aren't vague, but I think the real question is why the US supports Israel despite all the hypocricy that Israel presents.  It isn't a factual question like you make everything Bucc, it is a theoretic question.

Anyway, I'll ignore your unneccesary insults.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

1) you didn't ignore them.

2) you felt it necessary to start the shit.

3) I used it correctly, or did you overlook what I wrote in the past about your trend?  Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean I didn't use the term right.

[The Ghost of Bondo]

Yay, once again using the "what I wrote in the past" line, as if I had nothing to do but remember everything and everything Bucc has ever posted.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Yay, once again using the "what I wrote in the past" line, as if I had nothing to do but remember everything and everything Bucc has ever posted.

what part of the 'I don't care about this argument and don't want to be your history tutor' didn't you understand?  

Ok, so that's not accurate, but "I don't think it's my duty to be his personal history tutor here, especially in a thread that I'm not juiced up about discussing (because it's an old topic, with more sides then sphere)." shouldn't be that fucking hard for you to get that out of.

Yay, once again Bondo showing that he can't read.

[EUR_Zaitsev]

Its funny bucc, that when you had the knowledge and resources to back up your arguments such as pre-war arguments stating Iraqi attrocities you chose then to be my "tutor" however now that a subject where you have less evidence to back your reasoning you chose not to be my tutor. Show me, any of your previous posts that show you backing up your stance on Israel which, by all indications, is parallel to that of our government....And until you show me, Bondo, and others involved in this topic that you have reasoning behind your stance, keep from aimlessly cussing me out.

[Mr.Mellow]

Zaitsev, why don't you simply find the information yourself? That's what Bucc wants you to do, obviously. Besides, wouldn't you rather do research yourself than listen to somebody's opinion, who might toss in some incorrect facts to back that opinion?
Now, if you want, I can give you my view on things (again).
I've already stated why the U.S. backs Israel, you can look back in the thread for that. Probably around page 3.
Now, as for Israel bulldozing houses and killing civilians and such, while it may seem cruel, it's a smart move. While the average idiot watching Fox sees this as Israel doing this out of hate and creating more terrorism, they're wrong. Israel has captured and interrogated 7 attempted suicide bombers in the past few years. They were questioned, and all asked what would have dissuaded them from carrying out a suicide bombing. They all had similar answers. If the bombers knew their families would be tortured or killed after they committed the bombing, they would not have tried to carry out the attack. Makes sense to me. So, by Israel going after the family members of suicide bombers, Hamas political leaders, etc., they're actually countering terrorism, not creating it. They are scaring off would-be suicide bombers by making them fear for their family's lives. A bit cruel, but it works. I'm sure bombing figures would be dramatically higher if Israel didn't do this.
Now, I'm not saying what Israel's doing is morally right, but it's no worse than what the suicide bombers do. Anyways, hope that cleared up some stuff for you.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Its funny bucc, that when you had the knowledge and resources to back up your arguments such as pre-war arguments stating Iraqi attrocities you chose then to be my "tutor" however now that a subject where you have less evidence to back your reasoning you chose not to be my tutor.

I see your reading skills haven't improved either.  It has nothing to do with lack of evidence, it has everything to do with this being an old, tired argument that I'm not interested in debating.  I have the knowledge and the resources to tell you exactly why the USA's government backs Israel's right to be a nation and turns a blind eye to some things it does.  But what would that prove to you?  That I can read and retain history?  

Show me, any of your previous posts that show you backing up your stance on Israel which, by all indications, is parallel to that of our government....And until you show me, Bondo, and others involved in this topic that you have reasoning behind your stance, keep from aimlessly cussing me out.

OK FUCKTARD, let's see if you can answer this question, that I asked before.  WHAT IS MY STANCE ON ISREAL?  WHERE DID I MAKE ONE?  Oh, that's right, I haven't you dumbass.  But you can't read.  You are making assumptions that I have a stance that is different from yours.  But all they are is assumptions, since I haven't said one way or another (and I haven't bothered to read your stance, since I'm not taking part in this debate).  You say "by all indications" that my attitude "parallels" that of the USA government, but where in the hell have you gotten those indications from?  Fuck, you call me a Bush supporter, which shows how little you can actually fucking read and retain.

I find it fucking insane how you talk about my cussing while you insult me with "cower in corner" comments in a thread I'm not even involved in.  Did your mother do too many drugs while you were a fetus or what?  Because you seem to suffer from some serious disfunction.

Bondo, I see that you were wrong, and he has confused USA STANCE with my opinion.

Mellow, the only problem is that he wants to draw me into this argument, not learn about the USA's stance on it.  I doubt he'd ever really learn it anyway.

[EUR_Zaitsev]

And your question about whey the USA supports Isreal has been answered more then once.

My question, the one posed in the topic, was directed towards you bucc. Not to Mellow and not to many others who agree with our current stance. Thus when you say that my question has been answered many times, your right it has but Im asking you.  Furthermore from this response I can extract 2 facts. The first is you do not mindlessly support bussh and the second is that from the gist of your response it gives a feeling that there are perfectly good reasoning for our stance and thus you agree with it. So now, perhaps i WAS wrong. Do you support the United States stance on Israel or not? I apologize for assuming things should I be wrong. I fail however to see how me misinterpreting skills realates to my reading skills not improving. Obviously I can read, and you seem to be edgeing out of response by ASKING for this to be locked by your flamethrowing. I may be a kid, but Im not the one being immatue. I walked past a yellow cab today and it made me think of you and your vulgar voabulary use....TO BELITTLE IS TO BE LITTLE

[The Ghost of Bondo]

Zaitsev, why don't you simply find the information yourself? That's what Bucc wants you to do, obviously. Besides, wouldn't you rather do research yourself than listen to somebody's opinion, who might toss in some incorrect facts to back that opinion?
Now, as for Israel bulldozing houses and killing civilians and such, while it may seem cruel, it's a smart move. While the average idiot watching Fox sees this as Israel doing this out of hate and creating more terrorism, they're wrong. Israel has captured and interrogated 7 attempted suicide bombers in the past few years. They were questioned, and all asked what would have dissuaded them from carrying out a suicide bombing. They all had similar answers. If the bombers knew their families would be tortured or killed after they committed the bombing, they would not have tried to carry out the attack. Makes sense to me. So, by Israel going after the family members of suicide bombers, Hamas political leaders, etc., they're actually countering terrorism, not creating it. They are scaring off would-be suicide bombers by making them fear for their family's lives. A bit cruel, but it works. I'm sure bombing figures would be dramatically higher if Israel didn't do this.
Now, I'm not saying what Israel's doing is morally right, but it's no worse than what the suicide bombers do. Anyways, hope that cleared up some stuff for you.

So you feel it is appropriate to sink to the level of the terrorists to stop them?  Or in other words fight terrorism with terrorism?  You can't eliminate terrorism by creating more.

Anyway, Zait was not asking for historical information, he was asking for Bucc's opinion/stance, that isn't something he can look up in a book unless Bucc has published things I'm not aware of.

Oh, and funny you should say any idiot watching Fox...Fox is a extreme right-wing news organization and is not likely to show Israel in a negative light.

Bucc, it turns out I was right, that was the statement Zait wanted you to expand on.  Just not specifically in the capacity it was originally stated.