Iraq free?

[KoS PY.nq.ict]

According to the latest news Iraqi people have been dancing in the streets holding peace palms and U.S. flags (non burning). They're praising troops and tearing/burning Saddam's presidential pictures posted all over Baghdad. Not only that, but they've been looting Saddam's presidential palaces and getting things they've never seen before because of Saddam's sanctions on his own people. Most of them have never seen a refrigerator or a toilet for that matter. They want these freedoms and are ready for us to provide it to them.

On top of this there are rumors that Saddam has died, either by a bunker bomb or from over exertion to "stress"...

OMFG They just showed a picture of two Iraqi's pissing on Saddam's picture and spitting it. I told you fools that they wanted it...We did the right thing.

UPDATE: Now the Iraqi people are dancing and singing  "There's one enemy of God and that enemy is Saddam". Thousands and thousands are joining the mass everyday. This war is coming to a close very soon. With the Republican Guard on the run and their numbers dwindling, saddam possibly dead, and his regime falling to pieces, the U.S. should have victory in a mere 2-3 weeks (with a casualty rate of 50 or less).

[jn.loudnotes]

Naturally, the images shown to you on US news represent the views of the entire populace.  Why are you not as excited over the people all over the world who now piss on pictures of George Bush - remind me again which country is considered the "Great Satan"?  I'm sure they're all very grateful to us now. . .NOT

[[V] Silverblade]

id recommend vests and helmets for anyone working in a skyscraper...

[Cossack]

As the US army generals are saying now Pyrex, dont start dancing yet. Personally I havent seen any pictures of cheering Iraqis, I have seen them waving signs saying, "Yankee go home."

[tasty]

Turn off the American propaganda networks. American flags and peace palms are given to the Iraqis for photo ops by US soldiers. Do you really think there is a store selling miniature American flags in Baghdad? Most people in 3rd world countries have never had their photograph taken or video of them taken, and it has been shown that they will do pretty much anything you ask them to in exchange for that privilege. The images you see on the news mean virtually nothing as to the true feelings of the Iraqi people.

[EUR_Zaitsev]

 (with a casualty rate of 50 or less).


A casualty rate of 50 or less? So thats a split of 2 American soldiers, 12 Republican Guard, and 36 civilians or what? I think you actually mean 50 or less AMERICAN SOLDIER casualties. Now this reminds me of those new commercials with the person looking at the phone and not seeing all the crazy things around her until she gets a picture phone. So yes maybe 50 or less Americans will die but what about the Iraqi civilians that die? Is there any count on that. Like the boy with no arms and no family, did you add 3 people to your killed count and 1 to your life altering wounds. No I didnt think yuou did, next time you come up with some bullshit estimate make sure you include all human life not just you beloved americans.

Furthermore when Saddam was in control they burned American flags and cheered for Saddam, now that we are "in control" of thier country whats to tell them that our forces are any different. They think they have to act like we act, we claimed we made them free, Saddam said they were free all along, so yes I agree with Tasty that this is Staged and tyhe people probably do not really feel this way about America.

World Wide, Bush is more hated then Saddam. And you know what Bush is more of a threat to us then Saddam is because Bush represents America and these terrorist we speak of (though have not been mentioned in the war and certainly are not in Iraq) will not take it out on Bush, they take it out on the people. So if I am in danger from what Bush does, then doesnt that make ME a potential victim of what BUSH does? Yes the world hates Bush, and I dont blame them.

[The Ghost of Bondo]

Zait, more than 50 American soldiers have already died in this war.

The number is 98 dead and about a dozen missing or captured for the US, 30 dead for the UK.

Of course there are over 1000 dead civilians and many more dead Iraqi soldiers.

[kami]

Bondo's numbers are correct from what I've heard.

Guys, chill, don't think they take this liberation as a bad thing, if you lived under the rule of Saddam, I'm pretty god damn sure you'd be happy if someone came and got rid of him.

LoudNotes, most of those comments have come from the regime or from other countries, not many from the Iraqi civilians.

Cos, I've seen a LOT of happy people dancing because of the Americans coming in to the cities, I actually saw a man interviewed on BBC saying something like this: "I am so happy blabla I want to thank Bush so much blabla". There are a lot of happy people there right now.

Zait, Bush is not a threat to Iraq's civilians as Saddam is. The Bush admin is not going to use the same torture chambers as Saddam did, they will not make random opposers disappear in the middle of the night. Be careful when you try to make comparisons like that.

[The Ghost of Bondo]

Iraqis will be happy to have Saddam, but not happy if the US exerts too much control in the aftermath.  Unlike in Afghanistan, I truly doubt there will be much support for Saddam remaining.  There will be conflict between the Kurds, the Shiites and the Sunnis but I have great hope that the country can sort itself out more surely.  After all, Iraq isn't a country in the dark ages.  They have modern technology, decent gender equality, and resources.  They have quite a bit to build upon.

But the US needs to allow Iraqis to lead the discussion on rebuilding efforts, not control it or they will build resentment quickly.

Just to give a citation on my numbers, those come from The Gazette, and I assume they get them from the AP.

[jn.loudnotes]

Here are confirmed death totals.

US and British deaths

Iraqi civilian deaths

And no matter how much better life is for the Iraqis after Saddam capitulates, the families of those who died probably won't be any happier.  Likewise, those who are dead sure would have liked democracy - oh well.

[KoS PY.nq.ict]

BLAH BLAH BLAH...whine bitch moan....
Let's get together and order some "Wah"mburgers and French cries....

Wake up to reality. There will be civilian deaths no matter what. There always is in any armed conflict. IT'S INEVITABLE!

And yes...the Iraqi people want us there. They were even giving U.S. soldiers hugs and kisses. They're now showing a picture of saddam's statue being covered with an American flag. You try to make giving Iraqi's the freedoms they deserve a bad thing. Pessimists can kiss my ass. Saddam's gone...and the Iraqi's love it. He did so many terrible things to them. For fucks sake...they weren't even allowed to have a refrigerator in their house. That was a fuckin law....

Bondo...The U.S. and U.K. are giving Iraq back to the Iraqi's. Local city leaders will begin the rebuilding process. There was a picture of a Shiite embracing a Kurd. They're past having religious differences. Iraq's a new country now.

[Info-man]

For those that have not seen the news this morning, the U.S and Iraqis have torn down the huge statue of saddam. Once it fell, a enormous crowd of Iraqis jumped on the statue cheering waving the Iraqi flag. Then they dragged the head through the city, while children hit it with shoes ;p and rode it like a pony.... sounds like a fun ride.. i want a go.

[kami]

Just thought I'd share this story of a guy who used to be a human shield

Info-man, they weren't even children, the man riding it was mid-age, the guy running after him was hitting the face of the head with a hammer, looked really funny

[Ace]

Here are confirmed death totals.

US and British deaths

Iraqi civilian deaths

And no matter how much better life is for the Iraqis after Saddam capitulates, the families of those who died probably won't be any happier.  Likewise, those who are dead sure would have liked democracy - oh well.

What about the lives of people who would have died under Saddam's continued rule? What about the familes of those who died under Saddam's rule before? I'm damn sure they are happy about what happened. I'm sure the many Kurds have been dancing since we bombed Chemical Ali. I'm sure many more will be dancing once we find Saddam's body.

No doubt it is sad that civilians had to die in this war. However, it would have been more sad if we had allowed Saddam to continue killing them under his rule.

[KoS PY.nq.ict]

Precisely Ace......

Ok LN...take it this way.

Those 3000 civilians that were killed by ACCIDENT...they were told to find cover...leave the city...They decided to stay and therefore welcomed the risk of death. Now I'm not saying its right...but its damn sure unavoidable. It happens during any kind of armed conflict, be it protestors protesting a lost cause, or trying to win the freedoms of 25,000,000 oppressed people. You can wish, pray, whine, and bitch but that's not going to alter the course of war. Those 3000 deaths sounds a lot better than the next 20 million if Saddam was to stay in power.

Think of the TWO MILLION PLUS (inluding POW's) Saddam killed. I don't see you whining about them. Where's your heart for those people? Stick to reality. Death is life.

[jn.loudnotes]

IT'S INEVITABLE

It's only inevitable if you believe war is inevitable.  War wasn't, and therefore the deaths weren't and aren't either.  And where the hell did you get those 2 million figures?  And 20 million?  What are you smoking?  Since when is war an unstoppable force that wipes out anything and everything?  I'd like to think our government is very much in control of its forces, and can stop them as easily as it starts them.

Ace, that may be true.  Quality of life is very subjective - some people are going to happier without Saddam just as some would have been happier with him.  Which is the majority doesn't really matter.

Either way - tell your beautiful humanitarian story about how you killed a few thousand people in hope of saving more thousands - to all the oppressed or dying people in Saudia Arabia, or anywhere else we haven't decided to attack yet.

[KoS PY.nq.ict]

More whining.....

War is inevitable....just like taking a shit...you're going to have to at one point or another.

[jn.loudnotes]

With great effort I refrain from profanity to remind you that it wouldn't be if people didn't have your attitude about it.  It's only inevitable because you think it is.

[Cossack]

Yay Sadaam is gone, wohooo!!! As Ace would say "Yippie Kaiyay!" So it appears. I am utterly suprised at the light resistance, maybe their strategy is not to put up orginized resistance, maybe he or the other Iraqis plan for a partisan war. This is the Taliban's strategy and they have been relativley successful. I find it earie that there are no news reports from Afghanistan. Things have been happening there, and the Taliban have gained more territory and more recruits. This comes from Pakistani, Uzbeki, Tadjiki and Russian reports. I would post them up but I am taking it that none of you can read cyrillic. True the Taliban has not taken any cities, but you cannot get from Kabul to Kandahar or Herat to the Panjir without going through Taliban controlled territory.

Now my main point here is that wohooo! I am so glad Sadaam is gone, yay, yippie, wohooo! Dont start celebrating yet, the seizure of Baghdad is not the absolute final victory. Will an intefadah style war become? The main reasons I am against this war is how Bush handled it. If he would honor some of the buissness contracts that Sadaam made, he would get international support, instead the man has shattered freindships and has started to economicaly isolate us as we start to boycott and put extra tarrifs on other nations goods. Its true that one nation boycotting us will do little harm if any, but when multiple economic powerhouses such as Germany and China do the same, along with other economicaly powerful countries such as France and Russia, that hurts the economy greatly.

Another reason I am against this war is that the new regime is the Iraqi National Congress. Where oh where are they stationed? They are stationed in Tel Aviv! What is an Iraqi Congress doing in Israel? What is the leader doing, living there? In a Jewish nation whose motto above the Knessett is "From the Nile to the Euphrates." Start connecting the dots, and it seems that the Iraqi National Congress is a puppet for the Zionists. The dogmatic super jews whose soul mission is to make Israel stretch from Basra to Cairo.

Sadaam is a faggot we got rid of him, but as long as this INC is in Iraqi politics, as long as contracts with other nations are not honored, and as long as Coalition Forces are in this war I will not accept it, and as you can see I have god damn good reasons why.

[tasty]

Congratulations to the US army for (mostly) conquering Iraq. Now the real test comes. What type of government will be set up? Who will set it up? What will the roles of the US, Iraq, and the UN be in all of this? I anxiously await the outcome.