By Request, A Second Logic Quiz

[|MP|Buccaneer]

This question is made up, so I'll be judging it myself instead of using what my old prof did.  I'll give a possible 2 points on how logical the argument is (right or not, but structured correctly and supporting the found conclusion) and a possible 2 points for clearity (the facts should be evident and should be not too dificult to follow), and 1 point for the correct answer (and a bonus 10 points and admission of worthyness if you prove my answer wrong).  So, out of a possible 5 points I give you the question:

Is Evolution a Theory or Fact?


You do not have to be as brief as possible on this one, but be clear (don't wander around with statements that don't support your argument).  

This question was brought up by Rob's thinking over a previous question.

[Oso]

evolution is a theory.

there are no real true "facts" to prove this idea.

It is just when people see a creature with another animals characteristics, they think it is the same thing but evolved. Who knows, it could be a new type of animal.

i could go on about this, but i am a little tired, maybe more explaination about what the hell i just said tomorrow.

[OoA Rob]

Quickly, if possable. can you define Evolution for us? is this in  a biological manner? or are we staying broad?

[Typhy]

Evolution is a fact.

There are facts to prove and support this idea/fact.

Oso, its extremely silly to think that each change in an animal is a new type. All that must be proved is that there has been evolution in the past with one kind of animal, one thing leads to another.   Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species Thats the dictionary definition of "Evolution". It means that through evolution, new species are created. This makes Oso's argument semi-acurate. Each change, is evolution. After a large ammount of evolution, it becomes a new species. Each new species that is formed, comes from evolution, ( This excludes species that are newely discovered. This is refering to ones that are newely created. )

Because new species are formed, then the theory/fact of evolution is indeed a fact.

[Bondo]

Evolution is defined as change of a species over time into a new form.  During human scientific history, such changes have been noted in many species, even if as simple as an adaptation to new climate.  Therefore evolution is a fact.

P.S.  There is no need to use human evolution to prove that evolution is factual.

[Jeb]

evolution isn't a fact.
simply because many bible thumpers still believe that god made the world in 7 days. and if its not written in the good book its not true </sarcasm>
jeb
ps. athieism 4 evar!
pss. don't drink and post
psss. i'm sorry i'm really drunk

[OoA Rob]

Relying on my interruption, as the answer might vary from interruption.

Take from the dictionary and define the key words, and judge thoses to be a set of rules.

I will just say, evolution is "anything that changes within time"(just to many meanings, so I will stick to this one).

I will determine, a theory is "A scheme or system of ideas or statements held as an explanation or account of a group of facts or phenomena"

Fact is "an actual occurrence of a thing done"

Now I will play with thoughs 3 meanings and figure out if these ocurr.  These are my rules or true statments.

I do belive it can be up for interruption as there are different meanings in the english language.

I ask.  Is there anything that changes within time?  yes. based or other theories/laws(wish I were more knowledgeable in theories and laws).  All around us there are things changing within time, I might add unagrueably.  Simlpy, ourselfs thinking to produce answers is a change, not only physically, but mentaly as well.  Heat varys, is a change.  This texts is a change, because it was not here before.  The list can go on with examples.  But, I will use how bucc used his logic, right untill questioned wrong.  Therefore, things change.

Atleast some Things do change.
Change happens in time.
Evolution is anything that changes within time.
A fact is an actual occurrence of a thing done.
Therefore, evolution ocurrs.
Therefore, evolution is a fact.


Atleast some Things do change.
Change happens in time.
There are multiple changes.
Evolution is anything that changes within time.
A theory is a scheme or system of ideas or statements held as an explanation or account of a group of facts or phenomena
Therefore, evolution ocurrs more than once
Therefore, evolution is a theory

The question does imply only to pick one or the other.  trick question? don't think it was meant to be.

Two answer is where I rest I'm done trying to solving this.  I'm open for change, or shall I say able to evolve.

Question me, I can brush it up

[Shade]

I believe that evolution is a theory. As in math and science there are somethings that are taken to be true and do not need to be proven. Such as the planets revolve around the sun, or one of the many postulates that occur in math. Then there are those that have to be proven, and people are still trying to prove that evolution occured over time. Until almost all of science no longer needs to prove it and it is accepted as the truth then it will be a theory. And right now it is still a theory.

[(SiX)Ben]

Is it just me or are people overthinking this?

The question is "Is evolution theory of a fact?"

Implied "you" goes in there (due to the fact he's asking us) And thus, it's our opinion.

Evolution is a theory... Because I don't believe it.

(This post is my opnion but basically I didn't wanna write a long post!)

Ben

[jn.loudnotes]

I haven't read any of the other responses yet so I don't know if this has already been said, but here's my take on it -

Evolution is defined in a number of ways. http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=evolution

With any of these, we can see clearly that evolution is fact.

1.???A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.

For example, a human grows and develops over time.  It does not happen all at once.  Thus it is a process.  If the process exists as fact (humans cannot develop except over long periods of time), then evolution, defining that process, is fact as well.

2. a.???The process of developing.
b.???Gradual development.

While some things may change suddenly, others do so slowly.  The developing period exists, therefore evolution exists.

3. Biology.
a.???Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.
b.???The historical development of a related group of organisms; phylogeny.

This is probably the definition of which most people think.  I won't include definitions 4 and 5 as they don't really apply.  Anyway, the biological concept of evolution follows the same rules as the preceding definitions of evolution.  Animal species have been known to change over time, and our modern study of genetics demonstrates that this change is the result of gene variance throughout populations.

Furthermore, this scientific concept can be proven by disproving its opposite.  Those who disbelieve evolution advance that all species were created at once.  Indeed, if evolution were only a theory, and thus not true (for if true it is fact), then species could not evolve.  If they could not evolve, then all species in existence had to have existed originally, i.e. forever in terms of human cognizance.

However, in our own lifetimes we have seen new species emerge.  Bacteria, for example, due to their quick reproduction, frequently change.  New strains evolve into disease-resistant bacteria, etc.

While there are numerous species concepts as well, these fundamental changes, even if they do not create a new "species" immediately, demonstrate clearly evolution among living creatures.

[Ace]

Evolution is the act of evolving.
To evolve is to change into something more complex and/or advanced.
Such change is observable and has been proven. (Note this does not necessarily mean Darwinian evolution. For example, civilization has evolved.)
Evolution is a fact.

PS - QED beotch

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Grades:

Out of a possible 5 points

Ace 4 points
If you had left out that Darwin remark, or just said it much better, it would have been a 5. Well, that and maybe an example of where it was proven.  Darwinian evolution does exist.  His theories of the evolution of specific species is what is questioned.

Loudnotes 3 points
Your logic is good, but the examples given aren't the best.  Growth and Evolution are not the same thing, so, put the way you did, the growth of a human isn't necessarily the same as the evolution.  Your arguments and examples could be more clear.

Ben 0 point
Ben, the whole point of this is to find conclusions in a logical way, not to just state an opinion.

Shade 1 point
I give the one point because, even with all the wrong statements and an assumption in there, you do use some logic.  First, everything in math and science had to be proven at one time or another (which is how logic came to be developed as a specific tool).  Second, do you know what happened when it was first published that the planets revolve around the sun?  Third, look up the word "postulates".  You also seem to be assuming that Evolution means the same as "the evolution of man".  

Rob 3 points
Rob, that was over analysis.  You simplified your definitions, then posted some logical arguments with one exception.  That exception being in your proof about a theory.  Once a theory is proven, it is no longer a theory, is it?  Pretty sound but it also wandered a bit.

Jeb 1 point
Jeb gets the single point for trying to prove the opposite wrong.  If he had rememberd his opening <sarcasim> tag (he only used the closing tag) It would have made more sense.  It also lacked anything other then sarcasim, but one point for going in the direction that nobody else did.

Bondo 3.5
I am close to a 4 here too.  The adaptation to cold example was a little weak without a specific reference.  

Typhy 3.5
This would have been a 4 if it was just presented a little more clear (leaving oso out of it next time would be a big start).  One minor factual point, Not every new species is formed.  Life had to be created at some point, no matter if you believe it was God or the Big Bang, there was a FORMATION, not just Evolution.  But your thinking is sound.

Oso 1 point
There is some logic there, but your first fact is completely wrong, since since does prove evolution in animals all the time.  It needs more support too.

[Bondo]

Bondo 3.5
I am close to a 4 here too.  The adaptation to cold example was a little weak without a specific reference.  

What the hell?  I didn't say anything about adapting to cold.  You give more points to Ace who said nothing really different than me, just wasn't as specific and then say I lose points for not having a specific example?  Your grading is biased.  You want an example?  Cactus species have evolved to have a plasticy skin to prevent evapotranspiration and thus maintain the ability to survive in a desert region.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

The argument I would have posed.

Evolution is the  change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.

Scientists have found and traced the genetic evolution of many animals back to their common ancistors through their work with DNA.  Linking the Dog and Wolf back thousands of years to their common species.  Or when scientists experiment on animals with short lifespans to see the effects in their development would also be an example of Evolution.

Man has even been shown to evolve since his existance in his skin color and other bodily features.

Therefore: Evolution is a fact.

I didn't mention Darwinism or Creationism because neither is really on topic.  This was not about how did we get here, where did man come from.  It was about Evolution.  And Evolution, in this argument, was a biological adaptation.  I could easilly have used the Evolution of Industry or Political movements instead.  It was open ended because the question was about the word.  People's feelings is what leads many down different paths.  

[Ace]

Bondo, I gave an example. I said that civilization has evolved.

[Deadeye]

even if as simple as an adaptation to new climate.

bondo, get over yourself.  he said you were very close to a 4.  and bitching about him using the word cold instead of climate is pretty weak, when he was looking at so many.

please don't cry and turn this into another one of your bullshit rants.  bucc said that this one was subjective, not something he had been tested on.  in other words, if you don't like it, get the fuck out.

look at rob.  he isn't agreeing with bucc, but he's not being a little bitch about it either.

[OoA Rob]

I would like to say it is open to interruption.  how do we know which meaning to use, when the grader does not supply it to us?

just a quick post, more later, theres work to be done.

[Deadeye]

rob, bucc said that the other definitions were all fair game, and that was part of the point.  

[Oso]

woo 1 point!

hehe i forgot to look at the other meanings of evolution like Ace's.

oh well, do you have any other Logic stuff for us?

[(SiX)Ben]

PWNAGE... 0... (its the true score, I put no effort into it... I was too busy studying for SAT's... I took them today, now I'm ready for a logic thread. LOL)

Ben