the pledge of allegance, uncontutional?

[jn.loudnotes]

And Kilzo, I obviously do think I could do a better job than Bush, or else I wouldn't be so outspoken.

However, I'm too unelectable to pursue politics.  Why?   ....because I'm outspoken!

So unless you want to hand me a mandate and give me the office, the US will just have to make do with crackheads like Bush.

[Bondo]

Loud, you speak the truth...and my problem with getting elected is the same, that and mentally I've got more than a few wires loose.

A funny joke I heard on the daily show when they were talking about the Supreme Court ruling that retarded people couldn't be executed (and Europe lets out a similtaneous "duh, about time those stupid gits got one thing right").  Anyway, in the discent, Scalia wrote something about the Supreme Court was making the decision against what the public majority wants and that it was abusing its power.  So Jon Stewart naturally joked that somehow this wasn't a problem when they did the same to elect a president?

[jn.loudnotes]

I like it!  Great one  

Btw - I hate that ABC is pulling Politcally Incorrect...sigh

[Grifter]

Funny Loud....  wrong, but funny (well, you were right about Pat anyway).

I'm suprised that Bondo is more pro Gore though.  Gore being an environmentalist and all.  

To Kilzo, many, many people could have done that speach as well as Bush... it's not like he wrote it.  I respect the office, not the man in it.  That is my right as a voting American.

As for Jesse... he seemed to do exactly what he said he was going to do... what more can be expected?  I heard a few of his speaches (ok, many), and remember him saying that his only duties were to balance the budget and veto any stupid laws that the people didn't agree with.  He pointed out very clearly that the Governer doesn't make laws, he just has the power to veto them.  What exactly were you expecting from a governer...  I know he did a better job the Engler has been doing in Michigan (this bastard keeps diverting funds that were meant for public schools to other projects.)

[jn.loudnotes]

Yeah I think you're right on that Grifter...

Btw - someone please lock this thread before it passes my record terrorism debate thread....

[†FiRE Infection]

LoL so no government agenency can tell you that you can't say Under God eh?

[Brain]

techncally nobody can, unless they have a bigger gun

p.s. it's good to be back from vacation, and damn did you people get buzy while i was gone

[Mr. Lothario]

    That "bigger gun" stuff reminded me of this quote. "The single definition of government I've ever seen that makes sense is that it's the organization which claims the right to kill people who won't do what it wants."
     -- Poul Anderson, "The Avatar"

[Brain]

ah, finally i have a recant post form you lorentho
i see that you joined up while i was away, and would just like to say hello
you seem to be quite opinnionated one
you'll do well here
nice to meet you ?

a fellow forum whore
-Brain

[Bondo]

To any moderator...we need to have this thread locked before it passes the Terrorism Debate of last September/October.  That was much more classic than this one and needs to keep its record and not let these noobs like Brain get the honor of having the most replied to thread, that should be Loud's honor .

[Brain]

sombody's jealous....
but seriousy bondo, why am i not enitled to have  the recognitoin of starting a very hot thread(speaking of  which we need a icon for a thread of over 50 replys).
why am i any less worthy than loud? (and you better have an EXCELENT answer here bondo)

[Bondo]

Loud contributed a lot to his thread

[Brain]

and you're implying that i didnt contribute anyhing?
you're harsh bondo, you're harsh
(besides, what the hell am i supposed to contribute when i agree with grifter? he covers EVERY point that i want to make. do you know how annoying that is?)

[Grifter]

I do my best to cover all the points I can.. and especially to be annoying

[Ace]

MWAHAHAHAHA

[Brain]

it's alive!
IT"S ALIVE!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAH!!!!!
IT"S ALIVE!!!!!!


thanks ace

[Precious_Roy]

Well, I am about to commit the gravest forum sin of all,posting before reading all posts in the thread.  Instead I only read page 7.  As a result, no doubt, I will reiterate many things others have said.  oh well, don't care.  Those more aged forum posters know then when it comes to politics I'm neither uninformed nor stupid, though I may be a frickin' nutcase.  With that said:

1) Brian, you're a idiot.  Plain and simple, no two ways about it.  Loudnotes may have had a bad habit of posting excessivly back in the day... but at least he did it with intelligence.  maybe you could learn from that example.. maybe, but i doubt it.

2) My rant on "Under God":

a) The phrase was added on during the Eisenhower administration.  It was to show that Americans were the antithesis of the godless Communists.  It is a left-over from the cold war.  No heritage there except for our failings.

b) The first ammendment allows for the freedom of religon.  thus, freedom of religon implies the freedom to no religon.  "Under God" violates that right.  However, under previous court ruling though required to stand for the pledge citezans are not forced to repeat it.  One must ask hough... is not standing for the pledge a validation of?

c) Fundimentally, democracy is a government based on the will of the people.  In our case, it was a replacement for a monarchy where the monarch was annointed by god.  we long ago rebelled against that.  though the founders still believed in god it was seperated from the state.  Of course, half the founders also believed in slavery, so there intents are foolish to mention.  All we have left is the pandora's box of an institution they created, an institution in which the church and state are seperate.

d) As much as the Christian Right hates to believe it, we are a godless country.  We should have a godless pledge.  Humanism is where our future lies, not god.

e) Finally, for you grammar freaks, the "Under God" clause is an appositive.  this means that it is not vital for the life of the sentance.  We can eliminate it at will.  Eschew Surplusage. How fun!

3)Of course, in spite of all these truths, I don't care if the "under god" stays or goes.  If it goes, good riddence.  if it stays?  that's acceptable too  Though the clause is not part of our heritage, god, for good or ill, is.

4)I went to Japan recently.  They have the most interesting religious mindest there.  religon is not about faith or god or  sin or jihad, or anything.  It is simple reverance and tradition, to the point of praxis.  it's definitly an interesting way to look at it.  While I was there I bought a katana, and amazingly, got it back through Seattle customs.  Swords are kewl

[Ace]

One thing I just thought about: Do these God-less bastards want to get rid of "God Bless America" too?

[Precious_Roy]

It doesn't matter.  "God Bless America" isn't institutionalized.  The godless bastards can hope and (ironically) pray to get rid of it,but there is neither the means nor a concievable reason to

of course, the aforementioned bastards arn't as heartless as we make them out to be.  i doubt they have much beef with a song like that.

[Ace]

Well it was sung by the entire Senate. I would call that institutionalized.