the pledge of allegance, uncontutional?

[Ace]

What would you suggest I do other than bitch...vote? ?Voting doesn't matter in our two party system. ?I won't vote for a Democrat or a Republican because they both have their heads up their asses. ?And the chance of any third party getting elected is approximately nil. ?Oh, and I live in a very republican district of a very republican city in a very republican state (cept Boulder and Denver). ?My vote is not going to get a smart liberal elected. ?If significant election reform happened maybe parties outside the main two would have a chance but until then...

Yes, go vote! Campaign, support candidates who believe in similiar issues as you, petition, whatever. At the bare minimum vote. I thought you would at least do that, but I guess not. If there is one thing that pisses me off more than anything else, it's people who complain about the current situation yet do NOTHING to change things. In my eyes, since you didn't vote, you might as well shut the hell up and put a "I love President Bush" bumper sticker because that's what we (well technically they since I wasn't 18 yet) chose for you.

As for the swearing in processes or oaths, I'm sure if your states have such laws that CA has something equal. Does anyone know if there are similar rules for federal courts?

[Brain]

Also, don't let your cynicism blind you in voting... in your old home of Minn, an independant governer was elected a few years ago... no? ?If it can happen there... it can grow, can't it? ?Jesse made a big splash... and has done more good for independant candidates then any other person since we went to a two party system. ?Like him or not, he made a big impact and some great points. ?He was also upfront and honest (so refreashing in polotics) and even kept his envolvement in WWF and XFL to earn his money (instead of voting himself a raise like most guys in his place... or taking kickbacks... etc.). ?So don't act like things can't change... they always do and already have.

another great hing that jesse didn't do
no spin, he told it like it was, and didnt care who he offended. i wish he was wisconsins governor
of course there was no way he could have beat tommy. no way in hell

[Bondo]

Grifter, I don't think I ever said I was for vouchers in any way, shape or form.  Therefore I wasn't wanting to have it both ways.  Also, I didn't mean to ask if they got all of their taxes back, I meant their taxes for the school which you said they did.  Most likely though this money isn't even close to being able to cover the expense of a private school so it will still take a family with money to go to private school.

And Colorado isn't Minnesota, the Jesse Ventura thing doesn't really apply to a state where Republicans win by large margins.  Maybe in 10-15 years but not now.

[Grifter]

Poor attitude there Bondo.  Everyond said that Jesse couldn't do it either... but he did.  All it takes is someone that impresses the people.  The power is still there, you just need to get past the apathy (which you are a prime example of in this part of the thread).  

Being a Democrat or Republican is like being in a union.... you fight like hell on the inside... tow the line on the outside... and get all the funding.  

So what does it take?  It takes either a lot of money (Ross) or a personality that is so refreashing that the money isn't needed... a more grass roots campaign (Jesse).  Or a combination somwhere in the middle.  

But Ace is right...  people that don't take part in our political process give up any weight to their bitching about the government.  There are lots of ways to make a difference in this country... and remember, what the President does has much less effect on your life then what your mayor, governer, state rep or congressman does.  There are plenty of indies in local and state government... even a few in the House or Representatives... and one Governer...  so don't act like the two party system is the only game in town... it's just the biggest, for now.  Then there are all the other ways to help that Ace pointed out....

Also, you realize that you can always MOVE from that Republican bastion.... right?  And besides, you give a party too much credit... we get plenty of Democrats elected in Michigan.... and we are the HOME of the Republican Party (it was started here... either Kalamazoo or Grand Rapids... can't remember which.  But it's still a stronghold).  Heh... our governer (a shiteating GOP member that I dispise) pretty much ended his career when Michigan's votes went to Gore... how could the home of the GOP vote for Gore... hehe.

Anyway, there are lots of reasons to get involved, and no good ones not to.  Hell, you are in college... you probably have time on your hands (I know I did back then).  You could be the one that starts the fight to get rid of the Electoral College.  That would be a huge reform, and the bigest step forward into cleaning up the two party system.  Think about how much more it would mean if the indies popular vote got them some of those federal dollars for next time... instead of getting nothing because they scored no electoral votes...

[Brain]

Also, you realize that you can always MOVE from that Republican bastion.... right? ?And besides, you give a party too much credit... we get plenty of Democrats elected in Michigan.... and we are the HOME of the Republican Party (it was started here... either Kalamazoo or Grand Rapids... can't remember which. ?But it's still a stronghold).

wait a second... i thought the gop started in ripon wisconsin
*goes to check encyclopaedia*
oh no, says here it was jackson MI

than what the hellis the ripon connection to the gop???

[Grifter]

Jackson... I always thought it was further west then that.  Grand Rapids is a much bigger city... and Kalamazoo is as conservative as it gets if you don't count the university.  Ah well... I knew it started here in Michigan anyway.  One more thing to curse this place for...

[Brain]

ok grift, after a little cross referencing, i have found information that wil allow  you to curse another state for the republican party.

the encyclopaedia britannica has the following information(not exactly word for word, but its close enough that i need to cite the source)

there was a meeting held on march 20 1854 in ripon, in the now famous(or infamous, your choice) little white school house ,that formed the 'great northern party which came to power as the republican party 6 years later under lincon

the convension that launched the republicans was held in jackson on july 6th of the same year

thus,you can now curse 2 states.

trying to spread the love  
-brain

[jn.loudnotes]

Frankly I see no need to curse Ripon...

All this "party of Lincoln" stuff is crap.  While the GOP is organizationally the same party as was formed in the mid-1800's, idealogically they have reversed.

Today's Republicans are more similar to yesteryear's Democrats, and vice versa.

[Grifter]

Bring back the Wigs!!  Now that was a political party

[Brain]

true dat grift
we need ?whig party canidate for the next election.... anyone want too ?voulenteer

[Bondo]

Well, I would but unfortunately I won't be 35.  I'll be elgible to run for President in the 2020 election though.

[Brain]

use the time to brush up on those legal skills bondo, you're gonna need em

[Bondo]

I don't follow, why will I need legal skills?

[Brain]

so you realize what those bills are saying. you dont want to sign over your power to a goldfish do you?

[Bondo]

You don't have to be a lawyer to know how to read...and you don't have to be able to read to be President, after all, Bush got elected.

[Brain]

true
come to think about it bush threw any argument for needing any sort of intelligence right out the wndow

[Kilzo]

Hmmmmm, well people I must toss my 2 cents around this little political garbage.

First of all: Is the pledge unconstitutional? HELL NO! People get bent out of shape because of a simple phrase in ?One nation under God?. What crap, I don?t see any ever bitching about about the ? Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, SO HELP YOU GOD? phrase used in court proceedings. It is entirely lame to whine about such ridiculous things. Seperation of church and state was meant to protect lives and stop the Government body of a state from persecuting those with different religions.

Second: Jesse Ventura is a CockSmoker. I live in Minnesota, and although he did win as a 3rd party member, he did absolutely nothing for our state except raise my tuition at the community college by 13% while his kids threw parties in the Governors Mansion. He sucks ASS, was worthless, and got nothing done! NOTHING AT ALL!!! Trust me, I watched him for 2 years do nothing.

Third: OK, as far as Prezident Bush goes, Who would you rather have seen in office after September 11th? Gore? OMG, that would have been the biggest fucking joke around, him and Clinton were the Anti-Christ. Do you have any idea of how many ppl died in their administration? As in ppl close to them, it was like 35-40, fuckin criminals is all they were. Bush is a great Prezident, sure you can bash him all you want, say he isnt smart, blah blah blah, but the simple fact of the matter is he is a guy who tells it like it is.

He isnt trying to impress any ppl with big words, and fancy ass speeches. He knows the real deal, and tells it like it is. No other person could have come on National tv after Sept. 11 and deliver that speech with such conviction, you could see how pissed off he was, he wanted to say fuck you lets dance, but couldnt. Any other piece of shit politician would have pussy-footed around it all. He meant business and you could see that, so Im sorry to say if I offend anyone, but STFU, Bush is a great man who we should all support and respect. Think any of you could better? NOPE, niether could I.

Why do all you think that since you read some bullshit from a history book (and it is Bullshit) that makes you so smart? Learn the real deal from keepin your ear to the streets, and listening, read between the lines, damn!

Nuff said from me, Kilzo

[Bondo]

I'd have much rather had Ralph Nader in office, the man is a genius and not foolish like the Democrats in terms of "liberals".  Yes, I'm a liberal and I think the Democratic party is just as bad as the Republican party.

As for reading things in the history books, they usually aren't up to date enough so I don't know anyone who would have read about Bush in the history books.

[Brain]

3 things.
1 bush sucks, gore sucks more and nader(the one who didnt suck corperate dick) didnt have a chance
2 i bet alot of people could have made that speach before cngress, it just happened that bush was the one forced into it
3 i used to keep my ear to the streats till i was run over. so i wouldnt reccomend that to anyone anytime soon ?

[jn.loudnotes]

Bondo where do you get this crazy idea that Bush was elected  

Anyway, being liberal, you really ought not to equate the Democratic and Republican parties.  I wouldn't accolade the Dems either, but there is a difference.

It's a difference I would liken to that between Pinochet and Al Capone.  The Democrats may be bad, but they're not evil  

And Kilzo, calling Clinton-Gore the antichrist is a little harsh.  If anything, they were a pervert and a bore.  But being boring isn't a sin.

If Gore were president, he wouldn't have delivered a firey speech after the attacks.  However, he would also not be waging a foolish indeterminate war that kills children at weddings.

My prediction of what could have been -

Gore:  orders an immediate surgical strike in Afganistan that kills some Taliban and Al-Qaeda leaders but not all.  A second one misses and hits a school.  Fighting stops and Taliban/Al-Qaeda are monitored closely and become ineffective.  Other countries applaud the US for not reorganizing the country as Bush has done.  Then, Gore switches gears and focuses on domestic problems - but the war-hungry populace gives him a 40-50% approval rating even as he averts economic crisis.

Nader:  declares no large-scale war, and instead completely overhauls the intelligence department.  the revamped CIA sends assassins into Afganistan who successfully remove the responsible parties. Meanwhile, the US adopts a new environmental standard, wins international praise, and stops meddling in the middle east.  Countries stop hating us.
The economy never falters as there were no stupid tax cuts and optimism remains high, and the dot-com boom continues indefinately.  "under god" is removed from the pledge of allegiance, and miraculously everyone in the country sprouts common sense,  and the US becomes a role model for history.  nader becomes dictator for life, but rules benevolently over the entire world.  After his death, the by now united countries of the world co-exist peacefully, and everyone shares a high standard of living.

Buchanan:  launches nuclear strikes on all arab nations as well as israel (because of the jews there)  Russia and china feel threatened and simultaneously fire their entire nuclear arsenals at the US, leading to global holocaust and the destruction of the human race






yeah...so I'm bored...sue me