London Bombings

[bronto]

no self respecting terrorist cell would honestly name themselves that...smells like a fake lol.

either way, the website that apparently claims responsibility MISQUOTES the Quran (no islamist would do this) and also there is no claim of responsibility, just praise. it all seems to work out so well for the war. support for the war is down, downing street memos come out, britain draws up plans to remove troops...suddenly bombs go off in london, rekindled anger towards whatever terrorists have done this (suddenly a previously unknown terrorist cell named "The Secret Group of Al Queda Jihad in Europe" claims responsibility...rofl), downing street memos are immediately pushed out of the public's concern as well as the media's (not that they were concerned in the first place), and finally Tony Blair pleads with parliment to keep troops deployed. To top it all off, these "terrorists" threaten other countries that have made plans to pull out. The whole situation reeks of bullshit.

that is my opinion, as an englishman, and you can flame me all you like.

[Croosch]

i've got something more to say tho, yes it's so uneeded and fucked up when those "Terrorist" does such thing to civillians. But hey, have you thought about how many died in the Iraq war? have u seen USA/UK bombing Afghanistan/Iraq? have u seen those pictures when the US Troops Humilates the Iraqian People? this is war, war is such a fucked up thing but yes it is in our world, USA and it's allies have chosen this war. dont get me all wrong, im not a guy who wants war, but Bush started it. and only him can end it, sending his troops back and stop thinking he is the "good" guy.

Though I do agree with this is some respect, I don't believe we should be in Iraq at all... But I also know that you can't simply pull yourself out after you've already gotten this far into it.

[:MoD:Shade]

We're taking a school trip next year to England and are spending two nights in London.  Now I'm going with the girlfriend but because of recent events her parents are refusing to let her go.  Now I strongly disagree that one should change their plans a year in advance due to terrorist events, but I'm at a lack of words - anything I can say to help convince her parents maybe? 

[Civrock]

of course... London is pretty much the safest place to be at the moment and for the next months or even years (except countries that have totally nothing to do with Iraq etc) since the terrorists wont do something there again, at least for quite a while, heh. according to announcements the next targets are denmark and italy.

[Stripes]

i won't let em come here, theyre dead before they even know it.


z][t-Stripes /

[Civrock]

ha ha ha...

[bronto]

lol w/ civic @ stripes

[spike]

actually, london was one of the best places for this to happen (not that there are any good places for anything like this to ever happen) London has an extensive close circuit tv network, which means there is a very good chance that the perpatrators were caught in the act of leaving the bombs.

Secondly, there was a lengthy article in the nytimes yesterday about how this was most likely the act of a home grown terrorist network. Normal every day brits who happened to come under the sway of islamic rhetoric. Therefore, the curtailing of civil liberities and the tightening of boarders is unlikely to happen. It wasn't lax security that let these people in, they were already there. The nytimes also ran an article about how europe, britain included, has always been severly critical about the U.S patriot act, therefore, again, unlikely that this will result in a curtailment of civil liberties.

link
link

you'll probably need a nytimes user name to read them, but membership is free and they are very useful to have.

[bronto]

islamic rhetoric.

please try to be politically correct in the future. shit like this just breeds ignorance, real Muslims CONDEMN terrorism, islamic terrorists are going against their faith. if anyone tells you otherwise, they'll probably be burning in whatever hell they believe in when they die.


..i had a huge post but then i deleted it because it was probably going to make everyone mad. basically this entire world is fucked up because of our rediculous egos unwilling to accept eachother. after all these thousands of years we've only used our minds to build things that destroy and seperate ourselves from the things we don't understand, instead of just trying to do that. it's such a simple thing to do, regardless of what you believe.

[spike]

sorry, does "radical islamic rhetoric" work?

[bronto]

fundamentalists, extremists, jihadists.

^i was so trashed when i wrote that post i'm surprised it even came out looking right lol

[crypt]

We're taking a school trip next year to England and are spending two nights in London.  Now I'm going with the girlfriend but because of recent events her parents are refusing to let her go.  Now I strongly disagree that one should change their plans a year in advance due to terrorist events, but I'm at a lack of words - anything I can say to help convince her parents maybe? 

Tell them that that's exactly what the word TERROR in TERRORism is.

["Sixhits"]

First off, the attacks in London are a response to British involvement with the Occupation of Iraq and it's close ties to the US if the attack was orcastrated by a wing of al Queda. Al Queda has made it clear over the years that countries involved in supporting the US and it's foreign policy in regards to teh Middle East will be attacked. Spain. Now England. Probally Itlay and Denmark will be attacked as well. Al Queda is nothing if not consistant.

Terrorists don't attack places willy nilly, as much as the American government would like us to believe, and they don't attack us because they abstractly hate us or hate freedom or blah blah. Such talk is bullshit and in my opinion betrays the people's trust in our leadership. Terrorists have objectives they want to achieve and use terrorism to try and achieve those objectives -- plus, they tell us what those objectives aree.

The most important thing to remember is that al Queda's goals are this: the destruction of Isreal, the withdraw of US forces from Arab nations and the overthrow of "secular" Arab governments, replacing them with the sort of people al Queda likes. Basically, themselves.

The "war" being fought against al Queda isn't a war so much as counter insurgency ops. Everything they do is designed to ultimately foster one if not all of those goals.

So when ill informed people toss around statements like "the US started this war" or "the mullahs started this war" I get pissed off at them -- I figure, they're lumping Iraq and Afganistan and Isreal/Palistien and al Queda's terrorist ops all into one thing -- which it most decidedly is not. And they are making it harder to fight the real enemy by failing to properly identify what's going on. They're choosing to be ignorant about what sort of conflcits are going on in the world. Such idiots are dangerous.

We're not battlign al Queda in Iraq and the Iraqis aren't blowing up trains in Spain and England. Plus, no one really "started" this "war": the battle is between pretty much any established nation involved in any way with the midde east and anti-establishment groups like al Queda. The conflict is the outgrowth of decades of disaffected people in Arab nations whose goals are fairly straightforward and rational, in the strict "I can understand what they want" sort of rationality, and decades of morally questionable policies by the US and other nations. Basically, there's plenty of blame to go around. The causality of this conflict is murky.

But.

What we do know for certian is that al Queda is our enemy. They must be hunted down and killed.

Which brings me back to what pisses me off -- ignorant fools lumping these conflicts together. For example, the occupation of Iraq is a major loss for us in the war on terrorism. Iraq has not been nor is an al Queda front county. And that bullshit about anyone aiding and abetting terrorists being as guilty as them terrorists is so offensive -- why aren't we conquering Suadi Arabia or Egypt?

Now, thanks to Bush's Folly in Iraq we are unable, as a nation, to fight terrorism because we cannot afford to free up the best and most effective counter insurgancy forces from Iraq. Basically, Bush and the West have failed to protect us and indangered all of us. The situation is worse now than it was before 9/11. No lessons have been learned -- in fact, the only lesson that seems to have been learned is that wars are good for the Party in Power in the US, politically. Traitors.

[Abe 2.0]

True sixhits, the Iraq occupation isn't really contributing to the "war on terror", other than by drawing in a lot of assholes from western countries there and getting themselves to blow up innocent iraqis instead of innocent europeans or americans. It's also draining a lot of our intelligence and military resources, thereby limiting our capacity to respond to real and imminent threats. And as much as I dislike Bush, his supporters and their policies, I do think they have a point when they say that more political freedom in the arab world will-in the (very) long term-make the whole jihadist ideology less interesting. Problem is, for one thing that this is pretty unrealistic, for another that more freedom won't make Arabs like America more, and finally that you can't do it by invading countries, promising their people world and then turn it as a cash cow for Kellog, Brown and Root, while making the taxpayer foot the bill. I really hate what has happened to the Republican party, even if I never would have voted for them anyway, and I find it scary.

It's ridiculous to be pinching pennies on education and public services at home, while truckloads of cash have simply disappeared in Iraq. And Bush goes in front of the same Congress that to cuts funding for public health care and education, complaining about waste and mismanagement, and gets another 50 billion which will simply disappear into the same black hole as all the other money we have thrown at this war. FUCK! Where is the party of small but efficient government when you need them? What happened to old-school republicans, who even if they have no heart, at least had some good sense?

Stripes pointed out that the suffering caused by a terrorist attack in a western city is relatively insignificant when you consider what is happening in Iraq or Afghanistan. Yes, but the terrorism we experience as westerners today is pretty benign when you compare it to the terrorism that Iraqis under Saddam at the hands of their own government, the way North Koreans and many others do today. Also, i think the same point could be make of D.R.Congo, where nearly 4 million people died in 5 years of savage conflict in a country the size of western europe...even the tradgedy that Iraqis are going through at the moment is nothing compared to what happened there. Or how about Sierra Leone, where only five years ago rebels where running through the country chopping off peoples hands so that they could'nt mine diamonds or vote. Yes, we are completely obsessed with ourselves and only worry about suffering and tradgedy when it happens to us, but none of this shit is necessary and we should know better. But hey, that's been that way forever and its too bad you only notice when it's on the 8 o'clock news getting rubbed in your face.

Sorry if i've been off topic...