nevermind..

[bronto]

i was writing a post about something my friend brought up the other day, but then i got carried away and decided that no one would ever want to read all of it. i will shorten it:

how many people were decieved at one time (or at least have seen such a deception) to believing Islam is AGAINST Christianity, or somehow justifies terrorism?

my friend thought that, and it took me a good 20 minutes to explain to him what the islamic faith was...and i would have believed what he said if i hadn't previously gone out of my way to actually learn what Islam was. i don't know where this deception comes from, but it exists and it is meant to create animosity towards Islam...it's disgusting that anyone would even have the heart to twist the image of such a peaceful religion into something to be feared.

[Supernatural Pie]

Your friend is an idiot. 

I think most people that aren't COMPLETELY blind to the world know that Islam is a peaceful religion and in no way does it support terrorism.

[Stripes]

I'm a muslim, and when i kill you guys then it's only for fun .. so chill.. come on, were not only bad guys..

[(SiX)Sheixhundt]

I thought the same for a long time, and had a strong gut reaction of fear...then my father in Law..(hardcore vietnam vet) gave me a copy..
I was absolutely astounded at what i read...

The justification for the holy wars were merely referencing a REGIONAL historical conflict between christians at the time and the people of Mohammed's locale.
In that instance, horrendous injustices were being wrought on his community by christians, and he was reacting on that basis (from my understanding)  No where, did he extend that to the larger global community...matter of fact Mohammed recognized the Christ as a holy figure. He was advocating the warfare against a regional enemy...that had themselves whored out their christianity to advance persecution. (again, VERY preliminary reading of it all..I may be somewhat incorrect...very dense reading)
In its entirety, the koran is beautiful.

And the 70 virgins thing? These guys are gonna be soo pissed when they find out, that in the original translation, 'the 70 virgins were referring to 70 RIPE FIGS....  FIGS? WTF> WHERE ARE MY VIRGINS??
I BLEW MYSELF INTO ALPO FOR FIGS??

Islam, like our NeoCon Christianity, it has been infused with a liberal dose of neighborhood pulpitting, where the local (and national) figures, have prostituted the primary mesage to further and advance a political (regional/global) agenda. In the case of the Islamic radicals, they are being educated in a haphazard manner mixing truth and half-truths about what our government has been up to in various parts of the world, and this in turn is made to reflect that the west is spiritually corrupt, and must be defeated.  The same has been done from our point of view as well..as for the common man, like myself even, it is truly difficult to see into the mind of a person involved with Islam, so its easier to assume that they hold what we call 'radical' beliefs.  Breaks my heart to hear what guys like Pat Robertson, Robert Shuller, and Billy Graham and his crowd have been spouting about Islam, and although im loath to embrace it, the radical jewish lobby has a GREAT stake in convincing us that Islam is evil, and that its adherants need to be destroyed. Their primary religious readings does not need to mask its utter disdain of the unter-mensch such as goy christians and muslims...those concepts are readily available at the surface. Its HIGHLY unpopular to state this, and of course not all subscribe, but it is the truth of what they are taught as well..

So, all sides are effectively being manipulated to fear the other, and at this point, it is irreversible...and too deeply ingrained and the cost too high, to back away from such 'faith-based' beliefs. Meaning that all sides will hold their positions till the end, at the risk of appearing as though they have lost or abandoned their faith. Examples are moderate Iraqi clerics, that understand that although perhaps imperfect, we have liberated them from Saddam, and offered the way to democracy (or at least representative self-rule)..  Secular in their world is now equal to unholy, and Secular equals western. These moderates are targeted for asassination by 'holy' men. And other 'holy' men are whispering into OUR presidents ear about the evils of the Islamic mind....and away we gooooo!!!!

 Each side is being provided with continual examples of actions by the 'other' that allow it to confirm the hatred that gets thrown from the pulpit. Its almost impossible to truly discuss these religions WITHOUT the context of the poilitics in which they are currently seated..as the basis of most of the views of eather side are rooted in the politics, and not the religious principles both espouse....becuase, um..they both espouse the same freakin things.

The REAL meanings of any of these religions means NOTHINg to the war machine...and is probably not even discussed as thorougly or even handedly at higher levels as it is here in this gaming forum...

Although im not really an end-timer, it is totally conceivable that we will all be brought to the brink over this east west religion thing, (ie Islam is evil and hates the west VS The west is an oil hoarding, jew supporting abomination) and IF, just IF there is any large scale miraculous intervention, i can see some punishment being handed out for whoring the truth about God to advance war-concepts..on both sides.
The ultimate irony will be fighting an unwinnable global catastrophe over the ONE god...which in in the end-reading will be looked upon as THE classical semi comical-tragedy. Theres only ONE god, and we've all been praying at the same guy for all these thousands of years, and every religion states it plainly...
But there are, on the other hand, PLENTY of preachers and pulpit thumpers. (theyre the ones ive never really trusted anyway) My advice to myself has always been ..Look for the agenda, never trust what youre told, figure it out for yourself, and dont be afraid to ask for understanding along the way....it takes longer, but it's LOT clearer that way.

ps...Bronto, feel free to post your entire thought next time..I dont suffer the effects of attention defecit; i can truly appreciate a thoughtful question, and crave thorough discussion on any subject matter..or porn.

[z][t-Rampage]

Sheixhundt. its a pleasure reading your posts m8.

[bronto]

i think you hit it on the head sheix, a lot of the things you mentioned were in my original post. i'm still learning as much as i can about islam and arab history and culture...never knew how much of an influence they had in this world...not that i thought they were confined to the middle eastern region, it's just that the history we are taught makes no mention of them so it never really crossed my mind until recently. i personally love the kuran, it's a good read.

in the films post i just saw a quote from the film true romance...the moors were arabic, not african. the berbers were africans who had converted to islam and settled certain areas of sicily. not saying he doesn't have african genes by now, but it's incorrect to say the moors were african.

[beefyfigure]

And the 70 virgins thing? These guys are gonna be soo pissed when they find out, that in the original translation, 'the 70 virgins were referring to 70 RIPE FIGS....  FIGS? WTF> WHERE ARE MY VIRGINS??
I BLEW MYSELF INTO ALPO FOR FIGS??

But who would want to be around virgins in Heaven anyway? "Ow, you're hurting me!" or "Ow, that hurts!"; "Ow" this and "Ouch" that. What the fuck? Give me a break, man. Tell me, what's the use of being nagged at incessantly if there's better pussy around anyway?