More of the same . . .

[jn.loudnotes]

15 pages on the front of the Times.  Just one little detail, yet so indicative of an entire administration.  Still not convinced that the justification for war was forced?

http://nytimes.com/2004/10/03/international/middleeast/03tube.html?hp

[crypt]

Can someone post it up?

[jn.loudnotes]

???

[spike]

he means he is too lazy to register for the nyt.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

he means he is too lazy to register for the nyt.

No, some of us refuse to register for that left-wing bullshit.

[jn.loudnotes]

Hilarious GS.  The New York Times is one of the most well-respected news sources available.  Their editorial pages tend left-wards, but the reporting is most assuredly "fair and balanced."

I suppose you consider the Washington Times and USA Today to be less shitty?

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Hilarious GS.  The New York Times is one of the most well-respected news sources available.  Their editorial pages tend left-wards, but the reporting is most assuredly "fair and balanced."

I suppose you consider the Washington Times and USA Today to be less shitty?

Believe it or not, but I consider nearly EVERY news source available in the ENTIRE WORLD today to be left-wing.  Hell, I've even seen Fox News slant stuff to the left before (they do have liberal reporters too, you know).  Some of the really out-there left-wing reporting is done by the following:  LA Times, NY Times, NBC, CBS, and the BBC, among others.  Hell, how can you say that manufacturing fake military documents by CBS wasn't instigated by the left-wing agenda of Dan Rather?  He has always been anti-Bush, and yet you people can sit here and say that he is "just reporting the facts?"

These news sources don't report the facts.  They report what they WANT YOU TO HEAR.  I call bullshit on that.

[BFG]

Ghostsniper did it ever every cross your tiny little mind that it might not actually be the rest of the entire world that has got it wrong... and that maybe, just maybe it might be you?

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Ghostsniper did it ever every cross your tiny little mind that it might not actually be the rest of the entire world that has got it wrong... and that maybe, just maybe it might be you?

No.  Why can't a news agency just report facts?  Why does it have to spin everything, in the tone of the message, or even in the outright "bending" of the message to fit the way the media wants it to come across to the public?  It's like with what is going on right now in Iraq.  Every single friend I have that is over there right now has told me that they are happy to be there helping those people, that what we are doing there is right, that the people of Iraq appreciate what they are doing there, and that their morale is incredably HIGH.  Now, when I turn on the TV at night and watch the news, all I hear is how the soldiers are being killed in a place they don't even want to be in, that they are doing no good there whatsoever, and that the people of Iraq don't want them there at all.  So how the fuck is the news media reporting the FACTS?

IT'S ALL BULLSHIT.

P.S.  The friends I have there are in nearly every part of Iraq, doing just about every job being done by the military there.  It's not just friends of mine who were Rangers, these are people from the Signal Corps, Aviation, Armor, Artillery, Infantry, Corps of Engineers, the Medical Corps, JAG Corps, Military Police, plus military members of every branch of the U.S. Military, and a few British Military personnel that I know as well (including a few members of the British SAS).  You can't tell me that they are all lying to me, as the media would have me believe.  Fucking Bullshit!

[jn.loudnotes]

Ghostsniper, your friends hardly constitute a fair sample of the US military presence in Iraq.  Unless you have a few thousand friends at least, you're not talking a statistically significant chunk of the ~150,000 troops.  As friends of yours, they likely share your biases ideology.

Plus, it is in the best interest of a soldier abroad to portray his morale as high, unless he's trying to get sent home.  Yet there have been many factual reports of those already out of Iraq (and thus with no incentive to lie) describing their experience negatively.  The media has interviewed both groups of people.

Your roster of news agencies that are out there was a list of some of the top well-respected, non-biased sources in the world.  They have flaws of course, but they're about as good as it gets.  And if you actually read the article I started this thread for, you'd see a very objective consideration of many independent sources.

And CBS did make a mistake, which they acknowledged.  But the reason the memos were seen as credible is that they confirmed data about Bush's guard service that is widely believed true.  Do you honestly think he fulfilled his military obligations honestly?

[*DAMN Bondo]

GS, very convinent of you to ignore all respected sources and instead focus on personal sources who cannot be confirmed or verified, thus forcing us to take you at your word (or think you are full of shit.)

Basically, this article seems to be saying that the administration did have an active hand in lying about the inteligence by removing qualifiers and grasping the unlikely views of a few that fit their ideology and ignoring the more likely views of many that didn't. I'll try to get through more of it but this is my complaint with the NYT...they go on so long and sometimes don't really get to the point. I want to know where this article is going so I have some idea what all the support is building towards.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Ghostsniper, your friends hardly constitute a fair sample of the US military presence in Iraq.  Unless you have a few thousand friends at least, you're not talking a statistically significant chunk of the ~150,000 troops.  As friends of yours, they likely share your biases ideology.

Actually, I've talked to around 1,000 of my friends and acquaintances that I know from my military service, which is a hell of a lot more than some polling organizations use to say they have polled a "fair sample" of the population.  And they do not all share my political views.

Plus, it is in the best interest of a soldier abroad to portray his morale as high, unless he's trying to get sent home.  Yet there have been many factual reports of those already out of Iraq (and thus with no incentive to lie) describing their experience negatively.  The media has interviewed both groups of people.

They have not interviewed both groups of people in the same way.  They overwhelmingly LOOK for the guys who are dissatisfied with their service, while predominantly ignoring those who have something positive to say about their service there.  That is NOT reporting the facts, that is making things fit what they want you to hear.

Your roster of news agencies that are out there was a list of some of the top well-respected, non-biased sources in the world.  They have flaws of course, but they're about as good as it gets.  And if you actually read the article I started this thread for, you'd see a very objective consideration of many independent sources.

Well respected to you maybe.  I call them non-respectable.  And no, I didn't read the article, because I refuse to sign up for a site that spreads liberal bullshit on a daily basis.

And CBS did make a mistake, which they acknowledged.  But the reason the memos were seen as credible is that they confirmed data about Bush's guard service that is widely believed true.  Do you honestly think he fulfilled his military obligations honestly?

Yes, I do think he fulfilled his military obligations.  In fact, I KNOW he fulfilled his military obligations.  The big problem is that none of you people actually SERVED in the military, so you don't know what the hell you are talking about.  Same with the media.  Take a look at the points required to complete your obligation in the National Guard during that time.  There is a yearly point system which dictates whether or not you have met your obligations.  Guess what?  He had MORE than the points needed for EVERY SINGLE YEAR he was in the National Guard.  You people are taking the fact that somebody let him go help out with a campaign, and didn't show up for certain periods of time, as him not completing his service, which IS NOT TRUE.  He had all the points he needed to fulfill his obligation, and more.

Your problem is that you are listening to the left-wing media BULLSHIT and don't have a clue WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

Peace.

-GhostSniper Out.

[BFG]

Lol i can't do anything more these days but laugh at your posts. no offence but it just gets to the point where its nothing but comical.

You seem to be of the inpression that because you were in the army for some given time (yes im sure you will post a great bit list of what you did, where, when, how many halo jumps you did, what active duty you did etc etc) that you have some amazing insight into the issues of the world that there is no way anyone who hasn't been in the military could ever concieve.

But of course, you are the divine all knowing one, the rest of the world is just unenlightend and stupid arn't we. You are the pure defence of the true American way of life, you are a real american man who likes guns and big cars, and you who knows whats right and what is wrong. And right now it appears you are right and everyone else is allways wrong.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Lol i can't do anything more these days but laugh at your posts. no offence but it just gets to the point where its nothing but comical.

You seem to be of the inpression that because you were in the army for some given time (yes im sure you will post a great bit list of what you did, where, when, how many halo jumps you did, what active duty you did etc etc) that you have some amazing insight into the issues of the world that there is no way anyone who hasn't been in the military could ever concieve.

But of course, you are the divine all knowing one, the rest of the world is just unenlightend and stupid arn't we. You are the pure defence of the true American way of life, you are a real american man who likes guns and big cars, and you who knows whats right and what is wrong. And right now it appears you are right and everyone else is allways wrong.

Now then, I KNOW I am right when BFG comes on here and spouts out cynical bullshit like that, rather than coming back with facts and figures and links and articles to argue his left-wing point against me.

You could have just said "You're Right, GhostSniper!"

lol

[Abe 2.0]

Those damn bastards in the liberal media have done it again.....sonofabitch
Ghostsniper, you are completely nuts. I'm not just saying that in reference to this thread....just in general. In fact, you are so crazy that I am starting to suspect that it is all just an act, that in fact you are a completely sane person with an EXCELLENT sense of humor. You're such a caricature, that if its not a joke, it is extremely scary.

[BFG]

Ghostsniper what would be the point in me saying anything? If i could write it coherently most of the guys here seem to tend to agree on the whole with me... but what ever it is you will disregard as "left wing bullshit". Whats the point? I mean you seem determind to help fuck the world up - starting with making sure you get Bush back into power. You seem to support racism and you appear to be homophobic. You seem to have little regard for human life other than for yourself and those in your country - which is ironic given that your President is allowing heavy industry to quite litterally gas your fellow americans with highly dangerouse levels of arsenic, sulpher, carbon monoxide and dioxide to name a few.

What is the point in arguing or debating points with someone who will ignore them? Whatever we right you will ignore if it cannot fit into your narrow minded view of the world.

If a brick wall could be racist homophobic and a christian fundamentalist then i wouldn't see any difference.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Ghostsniper what would be the point in me saying anything? If i could write it coherently most of the guys here seem to tend to agree on the whole with me... but what ever it is you will disregard as "left wing bullshit". Whats the point? I mean you seem determind to help fuck the world up - starting with making sure you get Bush back into power. You seem to support racism and you appear to be homophobic. You seem to have little regard for human life other than for yourself and those in your country - which is ironic given that your President is allowing heavy industry to quite litterally gas your fellow americans with highly dangerouse levels of arsenic, sulpher, carbon monoxide and dioxide to name a few.

What is the point in arguing or debating points with someone who will ignore them? Whatever we right you will ignore if it cannot fit into your narrow minded view of the world.

If a brick wall could be racist homophobic and a christian fundamentalist then i wouldn't see any difference.

How am I racist?  Just because I don't think people should be able to ILLEGALLY enter this country, that makes me racist?  Sorry, but it is ILLEGAL for a reason.

How am I homophobic?  Just because I believe the Bible where it tells me that being homosexual is wrong, and that marriage should be between one man and one woman, that makes me homophobic?  Sorry, but I would much rather go along with what the Bible teaches on that subject than some left-wing nut from Europe.  By the way, the Bible says it is not only wrong to practice homosexuality, but it is equally wrong for you to sit by and do nothing about it.  Allowing gays to have marriage rights would be just as against God's teachings as if you were the one doing it.

[Abe 2.0]

So allowing gays so fuck eachothers assholes must also be a sin, right? Do you go around preventing men from engaging in anal sex with eachother? Just curious....
And sorry, but just because your homophobia is religously based doesnt make it any better.....you should absorb some of the nice things the bible preaches like tolerance and etc. rather than picking out the parts about gays.
As for the brick wall thing...GS you are the biggest hypocrite ever. Whenever anyone formulates a thoughtful response to your BS, you ignore and engage in some mindless dribble instead. You've done this to all of the more intelligent people on this forum when they try to discuss your religio-nationalist politics with you on this forum, so you should just go and grab a cup of STFU.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

You've done this to all of the more intelligent people on this forum...

More intelligent than whom?  Because if you are saying that anyone on this forum is more intelligent than me, I'll take a certified IQ test against any of them, any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[seth]

Can someone post it up?

15 pages, i'll get a ban if i do that.

The NY times is accusing the Bush administration of knowing as soon as 2001 that the aluminum tubes were not intended to be used for nuclear purpose. The  newspaper says its sources comes from the current administration.