I was thinking...

[BTs_GhostSniper]

You know, I was thinking about something today....

I was trying to figure out why so many people on this forum disagree with me on so many topics, many of which revolve around politics and religion.  And then it hit me....very few of you know what I know.  Few of you are Christians, from what I can tell, and so I would guess that many of you, if not most, have no clue what the "endgame" is for this world.  Well, I know what is to come, and that makes my view on things a bit different than many on this forum.  My views are actually in line with over half of the people of the United States, even though the liberals and the media would try to make you think that is not the case.

But here is the part that really changes the way I think about things....

You see, in the end, Jesus will come and bring to heaven all those who are saved on this earth.  There will then be 7 years of tribulation, during which the world will be laid to waste.  Then the earth will be reformed as it was originally, with a fermament, and Jesus will reign here for 1,000 years with his deciples.  If you aren't a Christian, you probably can't even begin to fathom these things, and it also explains why most of you don't follow my line of thinking when it comes to things.  Things like why I feel it is an upmost priority to defend the last slice of freedom and Christianity left in the world (the United States).  That includes defending it from WITHIN, from the liberals who would destroy the very things this nation was founded on.

So anyhow, in my mind, I have come to realize why I will forever be at odds with most of you liberals that dwell on this forum.

Peace.

-GhostSniper Out.[/size]

[Mr. Lothario]

     Wow. You complain about the "liberal media" twisting things to fit their own views, yet you ignore the fact that the founders of America were NOT REPEAT NOT Christians. I'll say it real slow for you: THIS COUNTRY WAS NOT FOUNDED ON CHRISTIANITY.

[Mr.Mellow]

Yes, because you know how much Jesus Christ loves wars, especially ones fought in his name. Gee golly, Jesus must be so proud, seeing so many people being killed. We all know how much Jesus was a warmonger, after all. Oh wait. What's that? Jesus was a pacifist? Oh! Well, with all of these wars fought to protect Christianity, surely he must want that? Wait a second. Wasn't it Jesus who told Peter not to draw his sword? I'm sure confused. How is it that you can listen to one part of the Bible, yet completely ignore the rest of it? A true Christian would follow all of Christ's teachings. Fighting wars isn't a very Christian act.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

    Wow. You complain about the "liberal media" twisting things to fit their own views, yet you ignore the fact that the founders of America were NOT REPEAT NOT Christians. I'll say it real slow for you: THIS COUNTRY WAS NOT FOUNDED ON CHRISTIANITY.

Sure it was.  "In God We Trust".  But really, does this sound like a person who founded this nation on secularism?:

"I now make it my earnest prayer the God would have you and the State over which you preside, in His holy protection, that he would incline the hearts of the citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to government; to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served in the field; and, finally, that he would be most graciously pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that charity, humility, and pacific temper of mind, which were the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things we can never hope to be a happy nation."

-George Washington, In a letter to the governors of the states on disbanding the army, June 8, 1783[/size]

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Yes, because you know how much Jesus Christ loves wars, especially ones fought in his name. Gee golly, Jesus must be so proud, seeing so many people being killed. We all know how much Jesus was a warmonger, after all. Oh wait. What's that? Jesus was a pacifist? Oh! Well, with all of these wars fought to protect Christianity, surely he must want that? Wait a second. Wasn't it Jesus who told Peter not to draw his sword? I'm sure confused. How is it that you can listen to one part of the Bible, yet completely ignore the rest of it? A true Christian would follow all of Christ's teachings. Fighting wars isn't a very Christian act.

No, it is YOU who are only quoting from one section of the Bible.  Why don't you take a look at the Old Testament where God told Israel to conquer its enemies through war, and even aided them in their endeavor.[/size]

[Maniac]

GhostSniper i am very Republican just as you are, and i am a christian. The thing is that i don't go to church or feel very strong about religion. I believe in Christ, and i believe the bible. The thing is that religion and politics shouldn't be in the same place. Politically i agree with you, but on the topic of religion I'm afraid i don't feel as strong as you. If it happens then yes you're right, but i don't count on it in my life time.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

GhostSniper i am very Republican just as you are, and i am a christian. The thing is that i don't go to church or feel very strong about religion. I believe in Christ, and i believe the bible. The thing is that religion and politics shouldn't be in the same place. Politically i agree with you, but on the topic of religion I'm afraid i don't feel as strong as you. If it happens then yes you're right, but i don't count on it in my life time.

I understand.  Even the Apostles believed Jesus would come back in their lifetimes....and I believe that he may come back in my lifetime.  With the look of things, we are getting very close to the last days.  Especially when you consider the European Union.  One of the things that has to be in place, by Biblical Prophecy, is One World Government....which is getting closer and closer.[/size]

[seth]

your argument about religion is irrelevant in regard to politic, since this is only speculation on what might happen later on. You should rather base your arguing on facts that have been prooved, and facts are by definition in the past, not in the future.

I'm not going to argue on a spiritual level with you, since i think everybody's entitled to its own dreams.
But your sermon, or more specifically the analysis after it reminds me very much about those old religion wars that took place in Europe several centuries ago, when religion held the power over politic.

Now you dont need to go back that far. Why are palestinian fighting irsraelis ? What happened in Kosovo ? What's happening in Sudan ? Religion is good, but people like you make a bad use of it.

[Mr. Lothario]

     You will please note that I said that the Founding Fathers were not Christian. That is a true statement. The majority of them were Deists. Deists believe in the God of the Bible, but disbelieve in the Church.

     Regardless, the religions of the Founding Fathers are beside the point. They, unlike some other people, were smart enough to realize that mixing religion and governance is a terribly unwise thing to do. You know, freedom of religion? If the Founding Fathers had held opinions like you or Dubya, the Constitution would instead have had an article establishing the Church of America and setting forth various penalties for nonbelievers.

     And hey, if you're devout enough to view the Old Testament as the inviolate Word of God, then I shall assume that you are observing the will of God and you do not eat shellfish or cut the hair at your temples or wear cloth of mixed fibers, and that you offer up burnt offerings to the glory of God.

[c| Lone-Wolf]

Ah yes, the good ol-religious debate.  I can smell the flames already.

Excuse me while i set up my lawn chair and get the popcorn, cuz this one's going to be a doozy.

I predict this will go on for...hmmm...five days before it gets way off topic and gets locked.

[spike]

I am also christain, I attended church until I was around 13 years old, and then typical teenage apathy set in. I've studied the history of the church, I took a confirmation class, and I'm into history, and I still strongly believe a religon and politics should not be mixed.

[c| Spetsnaz.]

I respect your views and understand how deeply you feel about them. My mother is deeply religious as well, so I can relate to your feelings on the matter. However, to paint Liberals as any less patriotic than yourself is a gross misrepresentation. A Liberal as defined by modern philosopher Richard Rorty, is a person who finds cruelty to fellow man as one of the most deplorable actions. In this sense I am absolutely a Liberal.

The USA was founded on the premise that freedom is an inalienable right. We all share the freedom to make decisions about who we are and what we stand for. To say that Liberals are out to destroy the USA is simply wrong. If our founding fathers did not grow dissatisfied with the status quo, the USA would never exist. If not for progressive Liberal movements the USA would not be the guiding light for humanity.

I believe Jesus was the first great Liberal, in that he too found cruelty to be abhorrent. He also said "Blessed be the meek" and "Pride goeth before a fall", would he approve of our government? Would he approve of War? Would he favor those who are blinded by greed? Would he lay waste to innocent people because they believe in a different word? The Christianity that exists today is a far cry from what Jesus was all about. It seems that time and mankind have contorted what was once honest and just, into an apparatus that oppresses and thrives on fear.

[The Golden Shark]

did you know that there were thousands of other books to the new testament that got destroyed by the catholic church because they showed jesus for who he really was? A REGULAR JEW DOOD< CHILLIN. he had sex with mary magdiline, it is documented. not only that but one of the roman emperors ( i forget which one) acually held a sectret metting to figure out and construct the whole christian religion.

and even if religion was a viable set of rules. would destroying mother nature and killing others be justified? no, so either way, you don't win.

peace "TheGoldenShark out"

[KoS.Rebel]

Actually GS, im Catholic, if that means anything here.

[BFG]

No, it is YOU who are only quoting from one section of the Bible.? Why don't you take a look at the Old Testament where God told Israel to conquer its enemies through war, and even aided them in their endeavor.

Because, (appologies to all normal level headed christians) it means jack shit. Because you don't apply fucking politics and Forign policy to some bullshit written in a book supposidly a few thousand years old. So fucking what if someone did say that, dosn't mean that the israelis have the right to treat the palestinans like shit and to invade their homes and kill their people, and it dosn't give the palestians the right to blow up israelis.

You have the right to believe what you will, most of us do, thats one of the gifts we have in modern democracys to an extent. However you don't have the right to apply or force your religious beliefs on others. Ghostsniper it feels like you are doing to Christianity what Terrorist bombers are doing to Islam. Distortion and twisting it to suit your own personal views and issues in such an extreamist fundamentalist way that well,  I Just can't deal with that.

[jn.loudnotes]

First of all, GS, I've no problem with disagreement - it makes forum debates a whole lot more interesting.

And then it hit me....very few of you know what I know.  Few of you are Christians, from what I can tell, and so I would guess that many of you, if not most, have no clue what the "endgame" is for this world.  Well, I know what is to come, and that makes my view on things a bit different than many on this forum.

I respect your right to believe what you choose.  However, when fundamentalists state a belief as knowledge, they distort the meaning of language.  How do you know all of these things?  Because you are a Christian and it said so in the Bible.  Yet consider your source - the Bible existed before you were born - and you were not born knowing your religion.  You learned it - from your parents, from church.  Now, is it a fair statement that your "knowledge" is actually based on faith?  You believe things to be true, but there is no way for you to actually verify them outside of the initial source.  

That's fine, but don't tell me you know how the world will end.  I have a very different conception of how the world will end, based on my beliefs.  Thus I could tell you that I know the endgame as well.  Yet if our views are different, how can this be?  Ahh...you believe that you know the endgame.  Your courage of your convictions is admirable, but do not let it allow you to be impervious to new understanding.  It is possible, within your faith as a Christian, to accept the possibility that you do not actually know everything - that you have misunderstood, that God has not revealed to you everything, or even that your own Lord Jesus Christ is deliberately misleading you in hopes of allowing you to think for your true path.  How do you know?  What if part of the Bible has been lost or mistranslated?  I could go on...

Bottom line - have faith in whatever you choose, but do not profess to know what even your own faith cannot verify.

My views are actually in line with over half of the people of the United States, even though the liberals and the media would try to make you think that is not the case.

Over half of the population is Christian, but far less than half interpret the Bible literally, and many do not attend church.  Of course you can't give a media example, but perhaps you could back up such a sweeping statement with a fact?  Of course, you're welcome to believe that statistic on faith, but again, how do you know?

If you aren't a Christian, you probably can't even begin to fathom these things, and it also explains why most of you don't follow my line of thinking when it comes to things.  Things like why I feel it is an upmost priority to defend the last slice of freedom and Christianity left in the world (the United States).  That includes defending it from WITHIN, from the liberals who would destroy the very things this nation was founded on.

I'm not a practicing Christian, yet I understand the Christian concept of the Apocalypse.  Only, unlike a peasant of the Middle Ages, I'm not excited by the prospect of chaos and destruction followed by a thousand-year reign of only the like-minded.  I don't like it, and I don't believe it.  And I don't consider the message of destruction of non-believers to be an especially Christian message.  And eternal damnation of those who differ is really just a ridiculous mindset.  Excuse me, but how can you condemn every holy, moral, good person in the world who just doesn't share your faith?  Rabbis, imams, the Pope...I'm sure Jesus really wants them to go to hell. (sarcasm)

I respect your right to your opinion, but the opinion itself, when it consigns 90% of the world's population to hell, is an absolutely untenable position, akin to bigotry in my mind.

[BFG]

Damn it if only i could post my thoughts that clearly and concisely Loudnotes... I wouldn't come across as such a mad raving lunatic!

[BTs_GhostSniper]

"I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.  So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.  For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.  For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.  Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.  Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.  For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.  And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."[/size][/i]

Romans 1:14-32

For a book written 2,000 years ago by some stupid men of God, they sure were accurate.[/size]

[jn.loudnotes]

So are you actually going to respond to people's posts, or just quote a passage that in no way supports the accuracy or efficacy of any statement you've made?  And how can you call that accurate - you can't use a source to prove itself - the Bible does not prove the Bible!

[BTs_GhostSniper]

So are you actually going to respond to people's posts, or just quote a passage that in no way supports the accuracy or efficacy of any statement you've made?  And how can you call that accurate - you can't use a source to prove itself - the Bible does not prove the Bible!

I think you need to go back and read the last half of that passage.  I'm assuming you stopped after the first sentence, because if you had read the rest, you would see that those things are happening in abundance these days.[/size]