D-Day debate

["Sixhits"]

Well, if D-Day didn't turn the Tides, what did?

Hitler lost the war the day he invaded Russia.

In fact, the day he thought up invading Russia he lost the war.

D-Day was, for all the lavish praise we sing of it, a minor skirmish that threatened Hitler's western flank.

Hitler lost more men trying to hold Stalingrad than were in all of Fance in '44.

Think on that.

Title changed to match new thread. - assassin

[Mr.Mellow]

Yeah, I was waiting for the new thread to say what Sixhits did, but I guess Coss never made it. By invading Russia, he pretty much doomed his Eastern Army. The supply lines were stretched way too far. The Russians were smart and kept falling back further into Russia, and destroying just about anything the Germans could make use of. The Germans just kept following them, stretching their supply lines even more. Once they became bogged down in Stalingrad, Germany was screwed, partly because Hitler was too stubborn to back out of there, and partly because of the sexy and harsh Russian winter.

[crypt]

You'd think Hitler woulda learned something from Napoleon, on that subject of the Scorched Earth policy.

[Brutha]

Hitler lost the war when he was forced to help mussolini invade greece....He lost some important summer months on that and therefore germany was locked in a winter war......which happened to be one of the coldest winters russia ever saw.....I guess he was doomed to fail. Not only was his partners incompetent but mother earth was against him too.

[PsYcO aSsAsSiN]

This is getting a little out of hand, but Hitler did not lose the war because he decided to invade Russia. He lost the war because he decided to pursue the Red Army in the winter, rather than staying encamped. In addition to this, he decided to pursue to Red Army northward rather than rolling into an undefended Moscow and sacking the capital.

D-Day was most significant for giving hope to the oppressed in Western Europe. When news of the landings happened, it inspired freedom fighters and others who had hoped to remove the Nazi dictatorship from power.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Nope, you are all wrong.  Hitler lost the war the day that Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.  For without the entrance of the United States into the war, it is highly doubtful that Great Britain and Russia could have taken back Europe.

[seth]

wise thinking GS

[Cossack]

This is kind of a siphon off from the D Day Rememberence thread. So if sin or any other moderator wants to combine the relevant posts of the two threads, feel free to do so.


So here is my case concerning Normandy. It was a highly complex amphibious landing requiring good communication and synchrinization to pull it off. It was ambitous and risky. However, it came too late to quote "turn the tides" of the war. Lets look at the war pre-D Day.

In 1939 Hitler went on his blitzkreig in Poland causing the war

At the end of 1941 Hitler was beaten back from the gates of Moscow, but had his tanks in the process of taking Eastern Lybia and Egypt. It was at the apex of Hitlers power (when his armies were in Stalingrad and El Alamein) did the tide of the war change. Ever since those two defeats the Axis could not muster up a sizeable offensive. The Western Allies pushed Rommel to Tunis and then went into Italy without being turned back. The Russians destroyed the Sixth Army in Stalingrad. Manstein managed to make an offensive, but it was quickly halted. Another offensive was made by Field Marshall's Von Kl?ge and Manstein, but it was also quickly crushed at Kursk in 1943. After Kursk the Axis were in full retreat. By June of 1944 the Soviets were in Bucharest, the capital of Rumania. By the time the Allies landed on the beaches of Normandy the Axis had been in retreat for two years. The tide has already been turned, Normany just reduced the amount of time the Germany had left.

[Mr.Mellow]

Yep. U.S. entry into WW2 simply sped things up quicker. The Soviets would have overwhelmed Germany with sheer manpower eventually. It probably would have cost millions more lives, but they would have done so eventually. I forget when the Russian T-34 tank went into service, but once those were rolling out of Tankograd, Germany didn't have much of a chance. With the Allies constantly bombing their factories, their ability to produce tanks was greatly reduced. However, one of the major things the Americans added to the war was their daytime bombing of Germany. The British would only do night time bombing raids, because they felt it was too unsafe otherwise. Germany was getting bombed 24/7, so that wasn't very good for morale.   Now, obviously I'm not saying that the U.S. didn't do much to help in WW2 because that's just foolish. They were a major, major, major player for the Allies, but you can't say that their entry to the war by itself was what turned the tide, and the same goes for D-Day. The U.S.'s ability to produce massive amounts of supplies for the Allies was much more important than the D-Day invasion, IMHO.

[*NADS Lo$eMoney]

Russia was Hitler's main goal, France and England just got in the way.  The reason Hitler invaded Poland was so he could get to Russia, unfortunately for him France and England were Poland's allys.  He mopped the floor with the Polish, steam rolled the French, however England held out during the battle of Britain, and Hitler had to cancel the operation sea lion (the invasion of the British Isles).  At the same time Mussolini was getting spanked in Greece by the Greeks and the Limeys, and Hitler had to go bail out his ally, doing so he spent valuable spring/summer months bailing out his buddy which should've been spent invading Russia.  Instead winter came and fucked the Germans over.  Essentially Hitler got beaten in Russia because of a mixture of impatience, greed, his failure to take England, and his bumbling ally Musolini.  It would be interesting to see what would happen if things went Hitler's way, I think he might have just had been able to take Russia, but thank god things didnt go his way.

[BFG]

ith the Allies constantly bombing their factories, their ability to produce tanks was greatly reduced. However, one of the major things the Americans added to the war was their daytime bombing of Germany. The British would only do night time bombing raids, because they felt it was too unsafe otherwise. Germany was getting bombed 24/7, so that wasn't very good for morale.?

It took a while to break down the significant anti air defences that previously made day time raids far far to dangeouse. The industrial areas around the rhine etc had seriouse air defences that in either night or day were extreamly effective.

["Sixhits"]

Here's one novel way to look at D-Day.


It saved the West from Communism.


By taking the fight back to the Conninent, but liberating Italy, France, and taking a good chunk out of Germany the Allies were able to re-establish democracies across Western Europe, thus fostering an era of un-easy peace.

But peace there was.

[Cobra]

partly because of the sexy and harsh Russian winter.

Genius.