I need to give my 2?

[BTs_Mysterio]

I want first off to let the mods know that if they truly don't like this then you can lock this. I just wanted to say a few things about Brains post AND NOT involving all that clan BS.

I want to thank and applaud Brain for stepping up and saying what needed to be said. I find it really saddening to think about some clans, this season too, using all cheap tactics they can muscle to get into the finals. Clans like |MP| and |BoC| should be in the BL finals. Not clans who go and lay in corners of maps, or set up camping sprees at their spawn.

The more I think about what's going on, the more I realize that people are here to win, not to have fun and play the game. That realism is sickening. These are days where you have to worry about "Is there going to be someone up in that window?" or "Those barrels look mighty suspicious", that's not how I want to play. Especially not when it comes to the BL finals. I know if one thing can be the doom of my clan, this game, even the community, it will be people in it who worry more about the game than the people who play it.

When you read this, think about what you are being told. If you reject that there's more to this community than winning, by lying to mods and camping, then do us all a favour and just go play somewhere else. There is competition in honourable battling, it's about who really is the best, not who can twist and squirm their way into the illusion they are the best. Consider this.

Jon

(P.S. that was very out of Myst so yeah, I'm not putting on a show)
(P.P.S. This isn't about the BL it's about the community. A warning for this would be pointless and needlessly degrading)

[crypt]

Amen to this Myst.

[c| King.of.Pop]

It seems there has been a lot of griping lately by clan members about the way people play this game.  Especially if they have been beaten by that particular clan, just want to play favorites, or wish they themselves were in the finals.  I think most would agree that this is extremely childish, and regardless of the complaint, shows bad sportsmanship?period.

A few months ago when everyone was first firing up their new copies of rvs and started playing it on gameranger, the only server to play on most of the time was a certain large server that shall remain nameless.   I myself as well as many others I?m sure were all very grateful for this.  It was the only place to learn the game and develop your skills, gaming friends and clanmates.  But one thing has become more and more noticeable about the style of play being advocated by the players that run the server, they don?t like campers.  So for the past few months a run and gun style has pretty much been enforced by them and if you didn?t comply, you were booted.  They have continued to enforce it, and every noob or ghost recon crossover learning the game for the first time probably thought, ?ok this must be the way I have to play this game?, because 90% of the time there was no where else to play and develop skills that were in any way different from the their rule book.  This was and still is unfortunate because there is more than one way to play this or any game for that matter.

Interestingly enough, when we cb?d this clan for the first time early in the season (and we were one of the few clans who took on the challenge), we were all actually shocked at how blatant their abuse of their own anti-camping rule was.  They called us crybabies, as I?m sure they were amused at how caught off guard we were as we ?rushed? into their traps.  We let it go, quickly realizing that we had been beaten fair and square and that there was no one else to blame but ourselves.  And that basically we were suckers for believing there is only one way to play this game, so we learned and moved on.

The c| clan does NOT advocate camping (another definition to follow), what we advocate is fair play and the freedom to play and strategize how you or your clan may wish.  I?ve had people call me a camper because I entered an area or hotzone 3 seconds before they did, heard them coming, waited for 5 more seconds and killed him as he became visible.  This is just plain ridiculous and has gotten way out of hand.  EVERYONE does this, yes everyone!  I?ve seen many many players do what some would call camping, including myself.  But it is NOT camping, the definition of camping has been poorly defined by some who consider themselves elite or superior to others or maybe just want other people to play to their strengths.  If you like to blast out of your spawn and never stop running and firing, then wonderful for you.  Some people don?t play that way and don?t want to be forced to play that way

RvS is a tactical game, there are tools you are offered to make this game work for you given the enemy you may face.  It is about moving slowly and/or quickly depending on what?s required, breaching doors, sensing your enemy (or blocking their sensors), faking them out, drawing them in or ambushing them if you like.  FINDING them if they are so called ?camping?, being careful or maybe being stupid (your bad), surrounding them or cleverly fighting your way out of being surrounded.  Yes, ok, sitting in a prison cell with a sniper rifle in prone position is camping, going and hiding in the crapper in penthouse with the door closed is camping.  But even still with teamwork and the right tools and weapons even this can be a fun target to seek and destroy, it?s part of the game believe it or not.  I mean really, the maps arent very big fellas remember? Plus, some of us have to shit sometimes during a game.   kidding of course.  

We battled |!| today for our first round of finals cb?s.  And it was a great battle, lotsa fun with more to come.  Both teams took their turns with aggressively attacking, coving doors and hallways or hills for that matter, pulling back and/or pushing forward.  The point is we just played, good clean fun and no one complained about the other teams tactics.  We didn?t ?camp? and neither did they.  But sadly enough some players in this community would say we or they did, and I just don?t agree with it, as most are starting to realize as well.  Both teams were hungry and looked for the kills and got the wins they deserved.

If you lose, take it like a man.  And if you?re not a man quite yet?act like one please, this is what will actually benefit this community more, the community that I?ve come to enjoy so much.  I would not applaud anyone for talking shit guys and gals, that's the most dishonorable thing that can be done here.  I hope no one takes offense to anything I've said.  The only thing I'm interested in is tolerance and fun, those of you who know me will understand.

Let's not make this a camping issue fellas, how about realizing that its a skills issue shall we??

Thanks for listening,.

Kingo

[alaric]

Hey guys, I think bondo's back....

King, cut the bullshit and get to the point. You, and most of c| are the worst kind of campers I can think of. We all used to bitch about BTs camping back in the GhR days, but that pales in comparison to what I have personally witnessed you and your clan mates participate in.

The first time my clan faced yours we kicked the shit out of you. A full shutout. We did not camp once. We played hard charging beat 'em up style like we always do. The second time you beat us. The only difference between the two cbs was the fact that in the first, you guys actually left the spawn.

Let me repeat that. On fully half of the rounds played in the latest MP - c| cb, c| DID NOT EVEN LEAVE THEIR SPAWN. To call that anything but camping is a crime against this game and the style of play it encourages.

King, this is Raven Shield, this is not Ghost Recon. It is not ok to hide in a far corner of the map and wait for an opportunity to shoot the enemy in the back. There is no skill in that. There is no honor in that.

I'm not going to get into a petty sematics arguement with you about what exactly is and isn't camping, I'll leave it to someone with far more patience than I have to do that, but what I will say is: MP was beaten that day, and beaten soundly. But we have learned from that experience. We have learned that we must check every back room, every dark corner, and behind every desk to find you. And we will find you. And then you will die with the dishonor of those who know only what it is to win, not what means to be the best.

Sorry for taking this thread off topic myst. But when the honor of my clan is tarnished with false and libelous accusations, I must set the record strait. Posts and positions like those expressed by king only serve to further prove yours and brain's point.

This is no longer the community it once was. And it's a damn shame.

[c| PsyOps]

Hi guys,

     Alaric, have you ever seen me and King camp?  We have played many many hours with you on MP server.  I don't camp and neither does King.  I have never witnessed you camp and I appreciate that (but I haven't met you in a cb yet).  

[c| Spetsnaz.]

Hey guys, I think bondo's back....

King, cut the bullshit and get to the point. You, and most of c| are the worst kind of campers I can think of. We all used to bitch about BTs camping back in the GhR days, but that pales in comparison to what I have personally witnessed you and your clan mates participate in.

The first time my clan faced yours we kicked the shit out of you. A full shutout. We did not camp once. We played hard charging beat 'em up style like we always do. The second time you beat us. The only difference between the two cbs was the fact that in the first, you guys actually left the spawn.

Let me repeat that. On fully half of the rounds played in the latest MP - c| cb, c| DID NOT EVEN LEAVE THEIR SPAWN. To call that anything but camping is a crime against this game and the style of play it encourages.

King, this is Raven Shield, this is not Ghost Recon. It is not ok to hide in a far corner of the map and wait for an opportunity to shoot the enemy in the back. There is no skill in that. There is no honor in that.

I'm not going to get into a petty sematics arguement with you about what exactly is and isn't camping, I'll leave it to someone with far more patience than I have to do that, but what I will say is: MP was beaten that day, and beaten soundly. But we have learned from that experience. We have learned that we must check every back room, every dark corner, and behind every desk to find you. And we will find you. And then you will die with the dishonor of those who know only what it is to win, not what means to be the best.

Sorry for taking this thread off topic myst. But when the honor of my clan is tarnished with false and libelous accusations, I must set the record strait. Posts and positions like those expressed by king only serve to further prove yours and brain's point.

This is no longer the community it once was. And it's a damn shame.

Bullshit. MP has to be the biggest bunch of hypocrites around if they call us campers. We learned from your tactics the first CB and we kicked the shit out of you the second time. We took our defeat gracefully, whereas you proceeded to bitch and moan because you thought you were infallible.

I'm a n00b and I'll be the first one to admit it, but some of your guy's egos are so bloated, you would think that this was something of actual significance. In the scheme of things I could give a fuck less what you charge us with or what personal attacks you come up with, because I know what went down in both CB's and the hypocrisy of the whole damned thing.

I would prefer to have good relations with everyone, but some people are so full of themselves that the notion becomes inconceivable. Perhaps this is my cue to migrate from this community, I pray daily for this community to return to the golden days you so long for, may all your hopes and aspirations come true.

[Ace]

I wasn't there for either of the CBs, so I won't get involved in that portion of the discussion. However, the one thing I do take offense to is the criticism over how we choose to run our servers.

Read that last sentence again: our servers. Not your servers, our servers. Not surprisingly, one of the big reasons we host a server is that we want a place where the members in our clan can enjoy themselves. And we all hate playing against campers. So we boot them. If you don't like it, don't play on our servers. I can't say it in any simpler terms.

Psyops, I can't speak for Alaric, but I don't ever remember you or the other c|'s who play on our server camping.

Oh, lastly, what the fuck are these golden days everyone talks about? I've been around longer than all of you, and there have been assholes and pricks in the community long before all of you came around. Sure, I would say that there was a larger percentage of cool people back in the day (R6), but there were definitely a bunch of dicks.

[spike]

I'd say a lot of the "golden days" are bullshit. What about exploding SAW bullets, what about the war against rapid? Look at the number of people on GR now, in 2004. It's over 150,000. Now when I joined, RS was big(about three years ago) and there were only around 60,000 people signed up.  So the Gameranger population has over doubled. Lemme say that again, over doubled.
Back then, there were two big fps games, R6 and RS. A smaller community, a smaller amount of games. You met more people, and because of that, one was able to become more familiar with a larger percentage of the players.
Go on GR now, I'm sure theres over 15 games of RVS and GHR in progress, that's a lot of games. Is it really possible to know a large percentage of these people? Not really. So no one is held accountable. While it is good that the mac community is growing, there is a price to pay for that growth. Look at pc players, we think that so many of them are assholes. Thats because they can be, because they play with so many people, that it just doesnt matter.
I miss the tags, and loose groups. Like .jNu, like .aHa and all the other stupid names and groups which were formed. They were formed from just fucking around, just having fun. How many of those groups are around now?
I'd say that as the community grows, the importance of clans will rise. It's all about finding a group of guys you enjoy playing with, guys who will watch your back.....

[Supernatural Pie]

I miss the tags, and loose groups. Like .jNu, like .aHa and all the other stupid names and groups which were formed. They were formed from just fucking around, just having fun. How many of those groups are around now?

Proud to say that I am the co-founder of .jNu, and a proud member of .ict and .etb!

I agree wholeheartedly. It was the whole atmosphere of relaxation and the ability to fuck around without being labeled anything or being booted from a game... or having a tk penalty imposed on you.



Oh yah... I have also been infected by .STD

[spike]

some of my favorite games have been tk games on modded maps, where nothing at all was at stake...

[|MP|Buccaneer]

But one thing has become more and more noticeable about the style of play being advocated by the players that run the server, they don?t like campers.  

King, let me first say that you "keeping the clan name out of it" is just bullshit.  See, when I kept the c| name out of my post about the clan that was spectating the other team to cheat and win, I didn't actually spell out which clan it was.  Doh, guess the cat is out of the bag now though.

As for how we run the server.  Campers drag along pick up games.  There is absolutely nothing worse than watching two guys left, sitting in their own spawns with C4, waiting for the other guy (who will never come because he is camping to) until the timer runs out.  I don't want that on my host, and as it is my host (or Ace's, depending on which one you are on) it isn't allowed.  You may not find that fair, but i've always explained it before booting people, and I've always said why.  Anyone is welcome to start up a host that encourages that kind of play, but it wont be on my network.  

Nobody forces anyone to play on our host.  Just like we don't tolerate TK'ing assholes.  People that don't like our rules are free to host for themselves or find a host that thinks like them.  We are not here to host by someone else's ideals.

It seems there has been a lot of griping lately by clan members about the way people play this game.  Especially if they have been beaten by that particular clan, just want to play favorites, or wish they themselves were in the finals.  I think most would agree that this is extremely childish, and regardless of the complaint, shows bad sportsmanship?period.

Actually, as I didn't have the opportunity to play c| in a CB (I was turned down every time I asked) I can't speak to your accusations of camping.  What I can say is that I would much rather not be in the finals by not camping and losing, than be in them by camping.  That is a personal standpoint.  Feel free to ask BTs if I camped at all against them (since I usually rushed right in and killed one of them, dying in a blaze of gunfire afterwards).

But I play to have fun, and if camping is the only way to win, I'll be happy to not win, thanks.

Let's not make this a camping issue fellas, how about realizing that its a skills issue shall we??

Is sitting in the courtyard of Island Estate the whole game, when you spawn there, considered camping in your book?  Since I've both run across that myself and heard about it multiple times, I'm just wondering.

Hi guys,

     Alaric, have you ever seen me and King camp?  We have played many many hours with you on MP server.  I don't camp and neither does King.  I have never witnessed you camp and I appreciate that (but I haven't met you in a cb yet).  

And I'll ask you the same thing PsyOps.  You ever see me camp?  I've been implicated by default by King up above, since he implicates my server rules, and below by Spetz, who must just be high.

Bullshit. MP has to be the biggest bunch of hypocrites around if they call us campers.

Funny, if I don't camp, which I don't, and I call you a camper that makes me a hypocrite?  Maybe you should try to direct your comments at individuals, not at clans.

Like I would hate for everyone to think that just because 4 members of c| think it's funny for Lightwave to join the other team after he dies, so he can spectate and report back to his clan mates on NetFone, that all of c| are a bunch of cheating assholes.  No, Just the ones that take part in that bullshit Spetz.  

[c| Spetsnaz.]

Funny, if I don't camp, which I don't, and I call you a camper that makes me a hypocrite?  Maybe you should try to direct your comments at individuals, not at clans.

You, and most of c| are the worst kind of campers I can think of.

Like this Bucc?

[Ace]

Funny, if I don't camp, which I don't, and I call you a camper that makes me a hypocrite?  Maybe you should try to direct your comments at individuals, not at clans.

You, and most of c| are the worst kind of campers I can think of.

Like this Bucc?

Could you have just made Bucc's point about you any better? He ragged on you for going after the clan for the actions of an individual. Then you try to make Bucc out to be a hypocrite simply because someone else in our clan expressed a different opinion.

That's the last time I'm going to bother responding to Spetsnaz. He obviously doesn't get it.

[c| Spetsnaz.]

Guess I don't get it, no need to respond to me either, this is the last time I'll post in this shit pool of a forum, have fun bullying around 12 year olds.


Fuck you , Fuck you , Fuck you, you're cool, I'm out.

[PsYcO aSsAsSiN]

Are you people deaf, dumb, or stupid? I am sorry that Mysterio's thread had to turn into a load of crap. I am giving you all a break this time, but if more crap like this surfaces, you will all be given a forum warning.