Honor...or a complete LACK thereof.

[Brain]

i was reading through the admin threads and i  came across the issue between BTs and ZT.
for those of you who don't have a total grasp of the situation. ZT threatened BTs with a forefit due to 8 having to take his girlfriend to the hospital. the other option was to play a shorthanded finals CB.  this issue is still under admin debate, I'm not going to broach whether or not this is kosher under the BL rules however.  What appalled me about his was the stark light it cast upon the current face of the BL. it is now a face completely devoid of the honor it once held

those of you who were around during the R6 and RS days will remember what i am referring to here and are encouraged to chime in.  it used to be the case that a situation like this would be the cause of massive public outrage and the clan involved would be damn near shamed out of the BL.  back then the leader of the clan would have never even CONSIDERED the course of action nor used the words that showed utter contempt for anything but winning. back in the days of R6 and RS actions and attitudes like this were the exception, not the rule. nowadays the situation is reversed.

all around me is see the ruins of a community that once stood head and shoulders above the rest of the the GR community, bound by the ties of honorable combat. back in the day (god i really sound old now, don't i?) people didn't clan whore and thought twice about their actions an what they said because it reflected upon the honor of their clan, and the honor of the clan was  paramount. no personal attack or insult was worthy of blemishing it, and attacking the honor of a clan was the equivalent of asking to be hunted down in every game and killed like a dog until proper reparations were made.  

now people all to often see clans at all to convent shells to be used and cast off when no longer useful to one's personal goals.  personal glory has replaced teamwork in to many players eyes.  our culture has gone from a culture of 'we' to a culture of 'me'. to many clan members, the clan did not win the battle league, THEY won the battle league.  thinking like that is what breeds actions like those that have resulted in the current mess between BTs and ZT.

i would like to note however that there are still a few honorable souls out there still, and i would implore them to try and continue the way that things used to be done.  i would also like to include myself among that number, but a wizer man than me once said that honor is best judged by others, and not yourself.  honor is also something that is built best by example, and to that end i will continue to try to rebuild the  community that i was once a part of, even if it is now just a grandiose figment of my mind


-Brain

[PsYcO aSsAsSiN]

There is a reason why im not reading these boards often anymore...just too much crap. Seems like there are a hundred peekays around here.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

I agree on many points.

Too many people here are win at all cost types.  Look at the camping that goes on in CB's.  I would rather lose a CB, and lose in the Battle League than win like that myself.  You'll never see me just stay in the spawn of Island Estate, watching the doors ready to kill anyone that thinks of coming through.  Too bad most clans can't say that.

Another thing that really disturbed me the other night, I was playing on another clan's host, all the clan members for their clan were on the same team, and on NetFone, which is all pretty normal.  But every time one of them died, he'd quickly switch to the other team.  Why?  So he could observe them and tell his living partners on NetFone where they were.  They'd switch right back at the end of the round, before it was actually over, hoping that nobody noticed I guess.  But tell me, what kind of bullshit is that?  Cheating in a pick up game.  I'm not going to mention names here, but they can go fuck themselves in my book, and if I see them trying it once on my host it will be the last time they are there.  I know I'm not going back to play with them in any case, there's just no fun in cheating for me.  Too bad not everyone feels that way.  I'm not sure if it's honor, but they are lacking something.

[Civrock]

ZT threatened BTs with a forefit due to 8 having to take his girlfriend to the hospital. the other option was to play a shorthanded finals CB.

no, that did NOT happen. Brain... you haven?t been there and don?t know what happened at all. please, don?t blame us. BTs have not been threatened in any way, there were no options. the involved members knew what has been agreed upon.


and btw... please don?t start with this again, that something like that would?ve never happened in the glory days of R6 and RS... riiight.

[*DAMN Hazard]

Civic stop the bullshit. You also knew what was agreed upon. Which was a cheap way to advance in the finals. Cut the shit, you could have made arrangements to play the cb fairly.

But hey, whatever wins games right?

[BTs_eight]

OK lets look at this situation...

You didn't force us to play, yet we wanted to play 3v4 in the finals...right?
You say you can't do 2 cbs in one day and can't cb us on Sunday... right?
And now its pretty late for you guys (6pm est), That is Midnight for your guys... and then tell us that you can't stay up any later? Right?


So basically your saying... You can't do 2 cbs tomorrow and you don't want to cb on Sunday. So then WE HAVE TO PLAY TODAY... this is what your saying right?

But you didn't force us to play... yet somehow i did mention in my PM "NO ITS NOT HAPPENING"

Umm right...?

As for the other players... I believe the one that talked to Civ was Sar.... Crypt said he just played... and Harvey I dont know about yet...

Ask them yourselves...

It's kind of ironic you guys don't want to cb on sunday... becuase of work and school yet you accpect us to play you on a friday 3 pm WEST coast time, While most of us are away at work.

[Civrock]

it was not me saying we wont cb on sunday. i would, according to the default times, but not later than that. we (z][t) planned to make one cb per day and a deciding one on sunday if necessary, if both clans won one round.

[??z][t-VieiA..]

Oh yes. We are without honor. Suuuure!

But.. What to consider is: They are the root of the prob. Good. Now that that is made clear, let's turn our attention to OUR side. We had this day scheduled. We have a guy that had to take a day off from work. Just too bad? Hmm.. We have players that can't play tomorrow. Too bad? Yes! But at least They got to play today! Listen men, I understand that the hospital visit was an emegency. But ok.. That could still have worked out good. BTs could have played with another guy on their team.. But YO!! We played versus 3!! With BTs_eight in the squad, that would have made it 4! 4 guys playing in the finals game?! ONLY 4!! (Yeh-yeh.. Semi-finals. Last season, these 2 teams of ours we're the ones in the FINAL final..) Is it their own fault? IMO yah mon! Poor dedication or bad loosers? Dunno.. IMO the outcome of theese games are square and fair. Come on! We had 7 players standing by at the scheduled hours.

But BTs still have the chance to prove us wrong tomorrow. They still have part 2 of the semi-finals, to set the score right.                      


Kind regards,

Bad-sports-McVieiA

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Wow, I wasn't here when this happened (I work until 6:30 PM Central Standard Time), but if eight had to take his girlfriend to the hospital I would like to think that z][t would have postponed the CB for that.  I come from the old school honor code myself (instilled in me by an entire family that served in the military, plus my own time in the military), and that just doesn't sound right to me.

I really hope that z][t offered to postpone the CB....I havn't talked to my clan mates about it yet to find out what really went down.

-GhostSniper Out.

[crypt]

With BTs_eight in the squad, that would have made it 4! 4 guys playing in the finals game?! ONLY 4!! (Yeh-yeh.. Semi-finals. Last season, these 2 teams of ours we're the ones in the FINAL final..) Is it their own fault? IMO yah mon! Poor dedication or bad loosers? Dunno.. IMO the outcome of theese games are square and fair. Come on! We had 7 players standing by at the scheduled hours.

VieA, No offense or anything, I really like you, but did you read any of the posts or know anything about the situation with eight?

[c| Splinter]

I'm sorry vieia, but you've lost all credibilty in my book.  When eight tells you that he needs to take his girlfriend to the hospital because her appendix is about to burst, and you're reply is, "You're not the one that's sick".  What, did you expect, for eight to throw her in a cab?

Forget about honor, what about just acting like a human being.

[BTs_eight]

I had no problems playing you guys.... BUT YOU HAVE TO RELIZE THAT THERE IS NO WAY I WAS GOING TO CB YOU AT THAT TIME WHEN SOME OF MY GHR TEAM IS AT WORK!@


http://www.battleteksquad.com/images/Picture1.pdf
http://www.battleteksquad.com/images/Picture3.pdf


Think of it this way....
An admin told a non admin that these are the defualt times... (2:30pm for west coasters) he then tells them they dont want to cb 2 times in one day... he then tells them that this is the way the finals work... one cb per day....

He then tells our guys its getting too late and the cb has to start.

uhh what am I missing here?

[Supernatural Pie]

As my 1001st post, entering me into the "God Bless the Freaks" chapter, I would like to say something that no one has even thought to mention yet:

Eight, is your girlfriend alright?



That would have been the first response if this had taken place two years ago.

[Typhy]

Eight, is your girlfriend alright?



That would have been the first response if this had taken place two years ago.

And that's the way it should be.

it was not me saying we wont cb on sunday. i would, according to the default times, but not later than that. we (z][t) planned to make one cb per day and a deciding one on sunday if necessary, if both clans won one round.

Don't give me that shit, Civic. I don't give a flying fuck if it's the final CB of a 500 clan tournament, and there is no other possible time for it. I can just imagine "Sorry,  I've gotta CB at Raven Shield, you'll have to call a cab." You really expect Eight, or anyone with a life or heart to say that?

"You're not the one that's sick", jesus christ, Civic. I think you need a vacation back to reality.

Just as bad, in my opinion, is the fact that you're defending yourself. I could sorta understand if you said some of that stuff in a spur-of-the-moment type decesion, without really thinking, but now that you have a chance to actually take a look at what you said, jesus christ, man, if you're not apollogizing and backing down instantly, then you need professional help; that's not an insult, it's serious advice.

How is your girlfriend, Eight?

[??z][t-VieiA..]

I'm sorry vieia, but you've lost all credibilty in my book.  When eight tells you that he needs to take his girlfriend to the hospital because her appendix is about to burst, and you're reply is, "You're not the one that's sick".  What, did you expect, for eight to throw her in a cab?

I didn't say such. Very unfortunate it is, yes! I hope she is feeling well at the mo'..
And understandable it is. Yes. -That BTs feels bad about the lost CB. Especially due to a situation like this.
Maybe the CB could have been postponed till like next weekend.. Good with me. Since I have work until then. (Yes. Remember? I'm a nightshift in a 7-11. (..whee btw..))
But, hmm, that would be uncool if U'd had taken a day off, to be able to play the CB, as one of our guys had. (No matter what..)

My point is, that it's unfortunate, not our fault, and too bad (really!) -that eight didn't have other players ready. Since that could have solved his problem. Then it would have been like: "Oh well.. Personal probs is disabling eight, so We have to do a 6 V 6 instead, or 5 v 5.. or 4 v 4.. (But even a 4 v 4 is pety for a finals CB.)


I hope You guys with honor on ya mind, take a few secs to look at the other side. We played with honor. -Mediocre.. As a sort of handicap, so they had a chance.       =P     ;o)


Your's,

??z][t-VieiA..

[c| Splinter]

I'm sorry vieia, but you've lost all credibilty in my book.  When eight tells you that he needs to take his girlfriend to the hospital because her appendix is about to burst, and you're reply is, "You're not the one that's sick".  What, did you expect, for eight to throw her in a cab?

I didn't say such. Very unfortunate it is, yes! I hope she is feeling well at the mo'..

Vieia - Don't lie, I've seen the screenshot of you saying it.  Infact, you can see the screenshot too, Just click on the Picture3.pdf in eight's post above.  

[Typhy]

VieiA, I don't care if your memember had to go fucking AWOL for the CB. There is nothing that you can say that will justify your stance; if a member has to leave to take someone to the Hospital, you should wish them the best, and leave it at that. If their clan can't CB because of it, then get the fuck over it. There are things that are much more important than both work and CBs.  

[Civrock]

"You're not the one that's sick", jesus christ, Civic. I think you need a vacation back to reality.

Just as bad, in my opinion, is the fact that you're defending yourself. I could sorta understand if you said some of that stuff in a spur-of-the-moment type decesion, without really thinking, but now that you have a chance to actually take a look at what you said, jesus christ, man, if you're not apollogizing and backing down instantly, then you need professional help; that's not an insult, it's serious advice.

Typhy... it was NOT ME who said this. i?d have never said that. i apologize for my clanmate that he did.

eight... i?ll talk to you on GR. we need to solve this, it?s going out of control it seems.

EDIT: it was NOT VieiA either... err, Splinter?

[BTs_eight]

Splinter... it was Acri who said it...

And its funny how you talk this way about work vieia... How about we play all cbs when your at work?!

Lets play all these cbs during the week when zt is at work... I think that would be most fair...

Again, this is WHY we setup the defualt times to be for the weekend when most people dont work....

Sucks you have to work the night shift... Maybe we can cb during the day on saturday or sunday.... NOT DURING THE DAY OF THE WEEK WHEN MOST OF MY CLAN IS AT WORK AND YOURS HAS BEEN PLAYING FOR HOURS....

[Brain]

first off, the point of this thread was NOT to start the two clans fighting again. any further arguing here will be moderated.

secondly, the screenshots are enough proof that what was said was inappropriate and totally without cause. i am only using the information heard and read

third, snipe is correct, partly. I already asked how 8's GF was and at the time he didn't know. but still the first words out of everyone's mouth in the old days would have been ones of concern.  this further proves my point that things are nowhere near what they used to be

fourth, before anyone claims that z][t was forced into this action i would like to say that there has always been an implicit rule in the battle league that if 2 clans agree, than any particular rule regarding the actual execution of the clan battle can be changed.  that option was not exercised and thus everybody was fully responsible for their actions