Madrid Bombings

[alaric]

Nobody seems to have started a thread on this topic yet, so here goes...

From the AP>>>

A series of bombs hidden in backpacks exploded in quick succession Thursday, blowing apart four commuter trains and killing at least 192 people and wounding 1,200. Spain blamed Basque separatists but a shadowy group claimed responsibility in the name of al-Qaida for the worst terrorist attack in Spain's history.

 Panicked commuters trampled on each other, abandoning their bags and shoes, after two of the bombs went off in one train in the Atocha station in the heart of Madrid. Train cars were turned into twisted wrecks and platforms were strewn with corpses. Cell phones rang unanswered on the bodies of the dead as frantic relatives tried to call them.

 "March 11, 2004, now holds its place in the history of infamy," Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar said.

<<< Source: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040311/D818EM8G1.html


Here's another article that probes who might be responsible for the attacks:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3501364.stm

Here's some background on Spain:
http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sp.html

Here's some background on Eta:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3500728.stm

Personally, I think it was Eta (or at least a branch of Eta) working with Al-Qaeda who wrought the carnage we witnessed today.

[Cossack]

I think it is punishment for being involved in Iraq from the resistance whoever they may be. ETA has not done attacks like this, but maybe it was them.

[alaric]

Traditionally, Eta hasn't attacked civilians, except for once, and they apologized for that. But who knows? Maybe they found God (or Allah, as the case may be)...

[Toxic::Joka]

The london based Al-Quds al-Arabi newspaper got a email, where a group introducing themself as Abu Hafs al-Masrin brigade announced that they had done the bombings in the name of al-qaida. They also threatened the united states by saying that a new terrorstrike was 90% done.

The spanish police also found a van with bomb detonators and a arabic koran verses on a audiotape.

http://www.helsinginsanomat.fi/tuoreet/artikkeli/1076152180012

Read that in the newspaper, also found a online version...wrong language though.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Pointing out the obvious:

1) Doesn't sound like the separatists, even if nobody else had taken credit.

2) March 11 is 6 months from Sept 11, may or may not be significant.

3) Other than being very Catholic, Spain is a weird target.  I wonder why Madrid (yes I noticed the "Crusaids" connection, but that seems as loose as being March 11th).

4) I hope a little good can come of this, and everyone can see what a danger these assholes are, and not just to the USA.

[PLOPje]

Well as long as my country doesnt support the USA I feel save

[Cossack]

They chose Spain because the Spanish Government in Madrid was one of the most vocal and proactive supporters of the war in Iraq. Not to mention they are one of the few countries that have military personel in Iraq and contribute a large amount of funding and logistics to the war. ETA wants independence for the Basques, they are in my opinion freedom fighters and do not do civilian attacks. Once they did one and now that I am reading the rest of all of your posts I find out someone already said this so I will shut up.

[seth]

3) Other than being very Catholic, Spain is a weird target.  I wonder why Madrid (yes I noticed the "Crusaids" connection, but that seems as loose as being March 11th).

Al-quaeda said it wil retaliate against supporters of Bush Iraki war.
Spain (at least the PM, 80% of population was against the war), along with UK, were the two major allies of Bush.
It doesnt look weird anymore, does it !

[BTs_GhostSniper]

I tell you what....

If America and it's allies are doing things that Al-quaeda is against, then I would say we are doing something right.

[seth]

i do agree with ya Ghost.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Al-quaeda said it wil retaliate against supporters of Bush Iraki war.
Spain (at least The president, 80% of population was against the war), along with UK, were the two major allies of Bush.
It doesnt look weird anymore, does it !

Thanks for the less than educated remark.

Australia would be #3 in supporting the war, as they, like the UK, took a more active role.  Poland, Japan, Spain and others have gone in after, in a peacekeeping role.

The Spanish troops are attached to the Polish troops.  Poland has a much much larger presence than Spain does, and was there earlier, so wouldn't they be a more likely target?

[PsYcO aSsAsSiN]

In my opinion, this has nothing to do with Iraq and everything to do with Al Qaeda being against everything western. While not reported in the media, there have been numerous terrorist attempts foiled post 9/11 in almost every western European country - it was only a matter of time before Al Qaeda connected and hit the proverbial home run.

As for that group claiming responsibility, they did not do it. That group claims responsibility for a lot of crap like the blackouts in the US last year...the odds are that the "group" is nothing more than a single man with a computer and a fax machine.

Added on: All Al Qaeda has done here is to piss off the populace of another nation. Much like 9/11 did to the US, the numerous attmpts in Russia did to the Russians, and now the metro bombings of Madrid, terrorist attacks bring unity within a nation, and a will to dole out the ultimate retribution to those responsible. If you don't believe me, flip on the tube and look at the millions of Spaniards marching through the streets.

[alaric]

It now seems that the spanish government, and therefore most likely the US and UK governments too, knew something was about to happen.

My college has about two dozen students and staff traveling in spain right now. One of our staff members was actually at the station the day before the bombings. She noticed that day that security was extra tight, tighter than she'd seen it before. Everybody boarding the trains had to go through metal detectors and have their luggage screened. This seems to indicate that the powers that be had some indication an attack of some kind might occur.

I consider this information to be encouraging. This means that our information gathering network is effective enough to know that this was about to happen. Though, sadly it was not enough to prevent it's occurance.

[MacMan]

Thanks for the less than educated remark.

Australia would be #3 in supporting the war, as they, like the UK, took a more active role.  Poland, Japan, Spain and others have gone in after, in a peacekeeping role.
**post trimmed**

Along with the Dutch tyvm.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Yeah, but I didn't want to bring up the little submarine (was it yellow?)  =D.

Yes, even the Dutch would seem to fall into the "better target" category than Spain.

I hope they can get some more solid leads and track down the fuckers.  

[abe finkel]

I doubt that ETA has anything to do with this. They usually attack goverment officials or target and give a warning over the phone. That they would want anything to do with islamic terrorists is pretty hard to believe, since none of their goals overlap and they are two completely unrelated organizations. My guess is its al quaida or some al quaida imitators thats behind this. THere was also a twin bombing similar to this, which i think eta also denied, during the summer.
Regardless of what spain's policies were on iraq, it is a tempting target to islamic terrorist because its near north africa and has a significant arab and muslim minority. When turkey or saudi arabia got bombed by islamic terrorists did it have anything to with their refusal to help the US in iraq? Why have Poland or Estonia not been attacked even though they helped out? Spain was a good target in europe for terrorism to begin with and iraq wasnt the deciding factor, imo. And cossack, i don't think the ETA are freedom fighters at all. Most basques in spain are in favor of an autonomous federal state within spain,which they have, and not a separate country. There is virtually 0 sympathy left for them or batasuna- theyre political party- in the basque country. Calling them freedom fighters is like calling Microsoft a charitable organization. Were the left-wing terrorist of the 70s in Germany and ITaly also freedom fighters? Alaric, basques are pretty nationalistic and usually quite racist so i doubt they would work with arabs or convert to islam. then again, who knows...

[BFG]

Just a little news update regarding this: Spanish Authorities have Arrested five men... 3 of which i believe are morocan and one of indian nationality...

I sevearly doubt this is ETA... Everything points in the opposite from ETA despite the goverment wanting to make people believe it was ETA for use as political gain in these elections... Everything points to a Al-quieda style group... I hope the fuckers get caught. I don't know if you guys have seen the images but it was pretty shocking... bodies everywhere, half burnt corpese of litle babies shreded in a mangle of steel and concrete... Its hard to watch some of the images without feeling so so sick.

[Cutter]

well the ETA has worked with the IRA in the past and not that there is a connection, but we know that mohammad atta (one of the 9/11 hijackers) was in madrid for some time before he came to america. and calling them freedom fighters makes me kind of sick. they are terrorists. it clearly looks like al quada, but whenever there is a terrorist attack in spain the ETA is the prime suspect. especially when the explosives they find are the kind the ETA has used in the past.

i can't find the link, but BTs eight showed a link the other morning stating the the spanish government caught a van in madrid a couple of weeks ago loaded with explosives. that van belonged to the ETA. groups like this have worked together in the past and it wouldn't suprise me if al quada and the ETA worked together on this one.

[BFG]

I would be surprised if ETA did this. Why would they? look at the publicity now... IT would be hard to get a worse name for your cause than this... ETA are by far no means freedom fighters - They are more like the IRA - a very small group who will not use political methods but would rather murder hundreds of innocent people in the name of their 'freedom'. And for the record i think there is a very big difference between this and the palistinian bombers... although its still pretty fucking god damn sick.

[seth]

after recent news (both claims of AL-quaeda, ppl arrested, the video tape, plus the detonators that are not ETA-like), it becomes more and more likely to be islamic related.

Of course Spanish gov wants ETA instead of AQ to be responsible, coz there is an election going on. And if, as stated in the second claim by Al-quaeda, those bombings were a "retaliation" against Spain for its support to the Bush admin and his wars in Irak and Afghanistan, that would be very bad news for the PM Aznar.