Raven Shield Rule Discussion

[*DAMN Mauti]

I know that the zoom is still different, it was only a comparison on how important the weapon fp view is for Raven Shield. It's an integral part of the whole weapon behaviour and it is as important as different zoom.

It's not about realism or arcade game style, it is about giving the weapons and attachments an more important meaning.

The developer created the complete weapons with the fp weapon view in mind but when they released the PC demo many R6 and GhR vets screamed that there should be an option to turn the fp view off. So did Ubisoft but the weapon characteristic was still created with a fp view activated. E.g. the zoom attachment consumes a lot of screen space so you think twice if you gonna use it because when zoom isn't needed it is a disadvantage for you. It fp view is off - it is a nobrainer to take zoom because you only get the advantages but not the disadvantages of the zoom. Here you clearly see that the developer wanted to make the weapon and attachment choice an more important part of the game, which they achieved as long as fp view is on.

Good night,

Mauti

[.vooDoo.]

VooDoo - What do you want to say with your statement??? that we dont have the right to discuss this???

And it is not only EUR - only a few had posted here - always the same ppl. Do u really think that U VooDoo, being more active then me in the last two seasons, represent the whole community?

I dont thinks so. I also dont think so that I do. But I posted my opinion. And the only thing that I see, is that you simply ignore arguments and try to blam us that were not that active u were.

THIS IS NOT OBJECTIVE and FOR U AS MOD NOT ACCAPTABLE

First of all, I dont want to flame this thread so if anything further needs to be said please do private message me. Second of all Im not going to apologize for what I said because I meant it as a joke. Now looking back at it I can see how it was taken rather badly, but if you remove my last sentence there is nothing wrong with my post. I was just interested in why the heavy interest by you guys. You also say arguments (as in plural). Have I spoke to you about this issue before? To my recollection we have not.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Thanks for ignoring mine and Typhy's posts Hologram.

[alaric]

I'd like to take a moment to commend Mauti on his fine grasp of the nuances of the english langage.

[BFG]

To say we all ignored your agruement/point of view/ oppinion i think is somehwat harsh hologram, maybe some responces have been brief here but this is becasue we have allready had long, complex debates about this issue.

Yes i understand u want to have the freedom to do as you choose.

THe game was designed by pro's to be a balenced and fair platform for games. The difference between having Forced first person has several issues, which we have allready mentinoed. Most notably it balences out the advantages and dissadvantages of heavy and light guns, most notably for the size of your screen which is blocked by by teh weapon. that is why.

I think we are talking about "realism" within the game, not real life. IF we all wanted to be able to charge around with heavy machine guns spraying bullets then we'd be playing QIII...

unbalenced is unfair, balanced is fair.. yes exactly. We belive that to allow people to not have foced FP the game would be unfair. Therefore to balence the game it was decided that in C'bs First person view would be forced on.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

I'd like to take a moment to commend Mauti on his fine grasp of the nuances of the english langage.

I'll tell you this....he has a much better grasp of the English language than I have of the German language

[[[EUR]] HoloGram]

Voodoo my interest is simple and I explained it. I want the free choise of it - nothing more.


I prefer to play to see the weapon - I cant play without seeing it - thats a fact.

So I just dont want that others that got used to the other view get pissed about this.

It is all correct, that the more heavy weapons take away more place on the screen. This doesnt bother me.

For me it is simple after I also had a few discussions in the PC Community, and after I play a few rounds in the ESL ( Electronic Sports Leage ) - this shouldnt be. B/C also in the league - one of the biggest - this view is allowed. This doesnt mean that we have to do the same. But I  think when in the PC Zone, where ppl bitch arround really fast and claim eachother cheater and try to forbid Cmags, it is ok to have this option allowed. Why not here?

It will still remain our decision - but we dont need to be more radical then others.

[[[EUR]] Stevie]

Just turn the shit off on hosts on GR, bc it ruins the gamefeeling for a lots of us.
If those lil popes want to have it turned on in CB?s... just let them.
Remember the gamecommutity we created back in the 1998 was based on having fun together and we had no small or big popes whom taking our gaming to seriously around.
I have waited so long for the good old R6 days to comming back and I am so happy that the Ghr camping shit is over.
No noobs can argue good enough to tell me that this FFW is a thing big enough to improve the gaming in any way.

Stevie

[eur.reddust]

looks like the same happens now and everytime, again.

during the last few months before RvS came out for mac i noticed a strange feeling around GhR rising in me. when i was clear about it i saw it was like i slowly got bored of GhR. but it was not the game. i loved it and i still do now. in that times i couldn't name the reason or where it came from although i thought about it a lot. there were all things available that should boost up fun for gaming and exploring new maps and mods. that all seemed not to work for me.

but then i got the point. it didn't work because noone was playing them. noone really wanted them. but the reason for this is not only that some maps are slowing or some map packs were a little difficult to install or a little large for slowcons to download.

the reason that all played all the same all the time was the damn battle league (sorry, i mean it literally).

but no.

it was not really the battle league. it was the unspeakable list of rules. and the way they grew and grew every week. fed by all kind of advisors who thought they were doing a good job for the game, the league and the community.

unfortunately they didn't.

with the count of admins exploding the attraction of the battle league somehow went down for me.

then "warzone" was installed as a must for the league and i felt like hunted down; "at last they got me". since then one was forced to play this game type all the time, on every host, just because all had to practice it. you just wanted some nice straight games? nearly no chance.

and now i come to the point.

this shows that setting up rules, especially restrictions and add ons will have a major effect in our community. it affects the behaviour and the free will of all active players. whether participating in the battle league or not.

so rules must generally set up carefully. and now far more carefully than in the past.

the "deciders" must develop a fine sense for responsibility now.

instead of this i see people who start to argue about terms and try to differ between "realism" and "realistic". do we have a new sort of philosophers here?

who cares what the developers wanted. no-one knows what they really wanted. hey, maybe it was the marketing department that wanted to see fpw because this simply generates more customers. or they just loved to look like counterstrike. anyway.

fact is that there are several features implemented that provide fun an even big fun. and i want to have that fun. i don't want to be restricted in regular games because all the world is practicing by restricting rules for the bl.

there is no real reason to restrict things because of advantages or disadvantages in certain kits, views(*), whatever... these things are part of the game. so, only players that are free in their choice will have the oportunity to find their favoured settings and options. and that results in the most possible satisfaction for each individual player.

i have the feeling that some posts come in with highly refined rethorical content trying to influence by suggesting that the author describes the will of the whole community. or even trying to tell me the best choice although it might be only his own personal opinion.

this scares me.

i don't hear the community screaming for realism, or to be as close as possible to it. so why do some always speak of that?

if you really want to have it as realistic as possible be straight, argue straight. see the following points and ask yourself if you would agree with that:
- switch off any view from a dead player. hey that's possible now!
- ban sensors and radar. no-one claimed this in GhR, btw.
- ban voice communication (because dead men don't talk) although promoted as a "must"
- some more...? hicap magazines? don't know if they are existing...?

Stevie says he won't "get poped". well, he is straight as ever. we often have different opinions in clan internal subjects.

but in this case i believe that our tom-clancy-mac-community is too small that there should be such a way of influence again like i saw during the last bl season(s).

to all those people thinking too serious things i'd like to say:
let us all be more different and let each keep his own way of feeling fun in these games.

thank you
Red  


(*) ok, there is only one thing i would restrict in a cb so far: the ghost camera. although a cool feature i consider it cheating when a dead player could sneak everywhere and report over nf.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

First, I'll thank Holo once again for ignoring what Typhy and I wrote.

Just turn the shit off on hosts on GR, bc it ruins the gamefeeling for a lots of us.

Steve, to put it very plainly, I don't give a shit.  I'm tired of the same 2 or 3 people always asking for me to turn FFW off.  It isn't coming off on my host.  If you don't like the way my or other hosts are set up, don't play on them or host it up yourself if you feel so strongly about it.  But don't ever tell me to "just turn the shit off".  I don't respond well to that shit.

If those lil popes want to have it turned on in CB?s... just let them.

That's not what it's about.  Try reading a couple posts for people that disagree first.

No noobs can argue good enough to tell me that this FFW is a thing big enough to improve the gaming in any way.

Good thing that I'm not a noob then.  Because I'll tell you you've made absolutely no case for it other than "because I want it so" crap.  Try looking at what has been said about it, then arguing why that's wrong.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

it was not really the battle league. it was the unspeakable list of rules. and the way they grew and grew every week. fed by all kind of advisors who thought they were doing a good job for the game, the league and the community.

unfortunately they didn't.

And in all that time, I don't remember you trying to help at all.

since then one was forced to play this game type all the time, on every host, just because all had to practice it. you just wanted some nice straight games? nearly no chance.

Who's stopping you from hosting?  Why are you (and Steve) bitching in the BL about pick up games on GR anyway?  You don't like what's being played, host one up yourself.

so rules must generally set up carefully. and now far more carefully than in the past.

the "deciders" must develop a fine sense for responsibility now.

instead of this i see people who start to argue about terms and try to differ between "realism" and "realistic". do we have a new sort of philosophers here?

Who says we don't have a fine sense of responsibility?  

If you read Mauti's post about it, you would have realized that the "deciders" as you put it, have been discussing it in the Admin forum.  Now, unless you have access to that, you can't really tell me you know what the "deciders" have been arguing about (especially since the admins haven't actually been arguing at all, it's all been pretty smooth with lots of good input).

who cares what the developers wanted. no-one knows what they really wanted. hey, maybe it was the marketing department that wanted to see fpw because this simply generates more customers. or they just loved to look like counterstrike. anyway.

If you had taken mine or Typhy's advise in this thread to heart, and actually RTFM, you'd know why FFW was in there.  It isn't about realism, it's because it makes sense the way they state it.  
Give it a shot.

i have the feeling that some posts come in with highly refined rethorical content trying to influence by suggesting that the author describes the will of the whole community. or even trying to tell me the best choice although it might be only his own personal opinion.

this scares me.

Funny, that's the exact feeling I have when I read your post.  Think about it.  Here's people from one clan, all saying the same thing.  Here's these posts telling us about the good old R6 days and how it's supposed to be about fun and FFW ruins the fun (your opinion, not mine).

i don't hear the community screaming for realism, or to be as close as possible to it. so why do some always speak of that?

I hear some of the community screaming it, and so do you or you wouldn't mention it twice now.  It's not as important to me, but it is to many.  Think about why people like the R6 games more than games like RTCW or MOH or SOF2, because these are more realistic.  That's one thing that does drive people to this game.  Not the only thing, and not for everyone, but you don't want to accept that to part of this community, it does matter.  

I call that stuck on your own opinion and not being very responsible in thinking about these decisions.  You are discounting them off hand, without reason at all.

(*) ok, there is only one thing i would restrict in a cb so far: the ghost camera. although a cool feature i consider it cheating when a dead player could sneak everywhere and report over nf.

Wait, isn't that ruining someone's fun? <sarcasim />

Really, it's nice that your clan is together on this topic, but you have added not a single reason for not having FFW.  The only actual reason you've given for FFW is that it makes it more fun for you (and your clan from the looks of it).  Glad to hear it.  

But, since there are many clans in the BL, and the admins are representing their different clans, should your (clan's) opinion count for more or less than the others?  No.  Your opinions should be heard, yes, and taken into account by all means.  But, in my opinion, just saying over and over that it's more fun for you this way doesn't really do it for me, especially with the offhand way you dismiss the opinions of those that want realism after talking about how the admins don't consider things carefully enough.  Nope, just doesn't cut it for me.

[[[EUR]] Stevie]

First of all its nice that RvS is bringing som many of the Vets back to Gameranger, and I really looking forward to have long fun gamenights and CB?s with them and others cool guys on GR.
I say it would be boring if First weapon will be forced in CB?s bc I dont like it at all and regarding to me its just a small parameter in the game overall.

Second...Who is this Buccaner, never played in a game with him ( or maybe I did but he was so boring I dident notice), I never saw him on GR and I defenitly never heard anyone mention hes nickname.

Opposit to this (boy?) I never give a shit in other guys Request, so keep on joining Mine, rest of the EUR and other good host who has manners enough to show respect for other players.

Herby I said what I wanted to say and regarding to me the subject is closed.

Mauti....This Damn site U created is amazing and thx for the mail.

CYA out there
Stevie

[Mr. Lothario]

     Heh. You lose in so many ways it isn't even funny, Stevie.

[eur.reddust]

thanks for reading and replying my post, Buccaneer.

you made great efforts to take my post apart and quote it into pieces. but while doing this you missed the point that i tried to make clear. unfortunately i have to say that you even didn't get the key of the quoted parts right. but that's not my problem.

i noticed you perfectly quoted your way around the key lines. and i believe this was not intentional. you simply didn't get it. so i will quote myself to show you what i mean:

--->
this shows that setting up rules, especially restrictions and add ons will have a major effect in our community. it affects the behaviour and the free will of all active players. whether participating in the battle league or not.
....
there is no real reason to restrict things because of advantages or disadvantages in certain kits, views(*), whatever... these things are part of the game. so, only players that are free in their choice will have the oportunity to find their favoured settings and options. and that results in the most possible satisfaction for each individual player.
<---

that is the key.

now quoting you:

--->
... but you have added not a single reason for not having FFW.
<---

first and finally, my topic is not ffw. hope it's clear now (see above).
second: it is definitly NOT my part to give reasons why to keep a free choice of options. it is YOURS to explain me in detail why you (so busily) want to restrict it.

thank you
Red  

[|MP|Buccaneer]

you made great efforts to take my post apart and quote it into pieces. but while doing this you missed the point that i tried to make clear. unfortunately i have to say that you even didn't get the key of the quoted parts right.

Nope, even repeated, I get the key message.  You don't seem to have gotten most of mine though.

--->
this shows that setting up rules, especially restrictions and add ons will have a major effect in our community. it affects the behaviour and the free will of all active players. whether participating in the battle league or not.

Yes, setting up rules does have a profound effect.  But that's just stating the obvious, and I didn't think it needed comment.  

Whereas I did comment on you saying that the admins did a poor job of it, and asked where were you to help?

there is no real reason to restrict things because of advantages or disadvantages in certain kits, views(*), whatever... these things are part of the game. so, only players that are free in their choice will have the oportunity to find their favoured settings and options. and that results in the most possible satisfaction for each individual player.

And even you disagreed with this in your pointing out that you'd restrict ghost view and viewing other team.  So I can't take it seriously, sorry.  I did say that in my last post when I asked if it was about choice and fun, wouldn't this limit someone's fun.    

second: it is definitly NOT my part to give reasons why to keep a free choice of options. it is YOURS to explain me in detail why you (so busily) want to restrict it.

Maybe because I've posted the reasons previously, and you didn't seem to take the time to read it, or just not respond.  

And it is YOUR part to give reasons, since we've decided to force it and you seem to be arguing for it to be changed.

Last, I'll repeat myself, since you seemed to have missed a major point of mine.  You dismissed outright the voice of the people in this community that want it more realistic, as if their opinions don't count.  And in the same post talk about how important it is to take into consideration the whole community.  That smacks of hypocrisy.  Why should anyone take you seriously when you do that?

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Second...Who is this Buccaner, never played in a game with him ( or maybe I did but he was so boring I dident notice), I never saw him on GR and I defenitly never heard anyone mention hes nickname.

Opposit to this (boy?) I never give a shit in other guys Request, so keep on joining Mine, rest of the EUR and other good host who has manners enough to show respect for other players.

Ouch, that hurt.  Some hardly active dick thinks that saying he doesn't know me is an insult.  

Too bad that kiddie game of insult the guy to ignore the points went out of style back when I was in High School, some 20 years ago.  Guess you still haven't outgrown it yet though.

I also like how you give the only real reason is that you don't like it and that's the way it should be.  Thanks for such an insightful argument.

[Jeb]

Second...Who is this Buccaner, never played in a game with him ( or maybe I did but he was so boring I dident notice), I never saw him on GR and I defenitly never heard anyone mention hes nickname.

Opposit to this (boy?) I never give a shit in other guys Request, so keep on joining Mine, rest of the EUR and other good host who has manners enough to show respect for other players.

Who are you? If you can't do anything but cause problems in a thread trying to solve the problem of establishing a rule system for the upcoming season, you shouldn't be commenting. I appreciate your views on trying to prevent "popes", or whatever the fuck your trying to say, from forcing their views of rvs on everyone. But by suggesting your own view on ffw that no one gives a shit about your helping nothing. If your not helping, STFU, and i won't have to add to any of this mess.
I'll hope that this is deleted by an admin after you get a chance to see this,
-jeb

[.vooDoo.]

Hi Sexy

lets leave them arguing, and sail into the sun on our katamaran, slowly moving towards the palmtree-island, because we are loaded.

Loaded with respect, ideas, candle lights and ...fun.

Lets forget all the words...words a lot of ppl had, that ended up with forcing first person shooter on.....lets familiarize with the idea, that from very soon we are all going to play again. Play a game that will bring back old friends and bring in some new ones. The stupid details have already been fixed by grumbling and serious folks. Dont get lost in mazes plz.

Now lets prepare for a season of magic. A season where old clans have to meet their junior partners. All the new clans that they dont even know.

A season where only one thing is certain: The outcome is more uncertain than it has been for .....a long long time.

Red... I love you and your clan....plz hear my call: Lets make some sexy CB?s and some great moments of fun.

I hope you dont get embarassed if I show my.....gun.


With love
| ! | Flies

Her Her Flies, Mauti will be releasing the "official" rules shortly. This thread is hearby Locked.