Raven Shield Rule Discussion

[Toxic::Joka]

Heres some suggestions...

Rounds per match: 7
Time per round: 10
Time between rounds: --
Bomb timer: dosent matter if the game mode isnt bomb
Number of players: the amount of players in the cb,  
Friendly fire: on
Teammate killer penalty: off
Allow radar: on
Allow teammate names: on
Force first person weapon: off, this regulates if the gun in the lower part of screen the one your holding has to show or not, if you like to play without it dont see why not.
Auto balance teams: off

Death camera on first person only

Game mode on team survival, although the bomb mode would be kind of a "warzone" for Raven Shield, maybe thats too early to settle. Anyway, lets try to have this all figured out when season 7 starts.

Thoughts?

Joka

[Typhy]

I know that about 95% of the people here will want "First Person Spectate Only" mode.

However, let's take a look at it from a different perspective:

Back at Rogue Spear, it was impossible to force first person spectate view - you could force first person in the game, but not when spectating. There were never any problems with this. Admittably, far less people used voice chat apps ( NF, RW, etc. ). However, even with voice chat, the amount of time that you'll be able to take advantage of it will be very slim. I mean, how often are you actually able to scream "he's behind you!" and have your teamate blow him away? Very rarely.

Also, it's much, much more enjoyable to watch through third person mode. Aren't CBs about having fun?

Over the last 72 hours, Alaric and myself have probably played a good 25 hours of RvS together - all the time on Netfone, of course. I honestly don't think I can remember a time in those 25 hours where 3rd person spectating saved one of us; that's out of like 1,000 kills, and several hundered deaths each.

Now, past that.

A little advice for anyone who's crashing while quitting RvS: Just type "quit" into the console. That should be problem free.

My opinion, in the interest of starting season 7 ASAP after season 6, we should limit it to one RvS ladder - that being Team Survival, of course.

Like with GHR, we can add more ladders later, and while I look forward to doing some "bomb" CBs, it can wait until season 8.

Joka, you have to understand this - with the way that the maps are setup, your suggestion is to play 7 games on each map. This would be kinda fucked up, wouldn't you agree? All that a clan would have to do is perfect a single map. This would have some distinct problems, namely the fact that some maps have uneven inserts.

Perhaps something like this:

CB = 12 games:

2 games per map.

Non hosting clan tells the hosting clan their 3 map choices. The host then sets up the server, 2 games per round ( I haven't checked - can you do 2 per round or does it have to be an uneven amount? )

The same is done on the other server.

With RvS' terrible server menu, the non hosting clan would have to tell the host their maps in advanced, of course.

Time per round: Infident. You've gotta have the balls to come out and fight.

Infident time between rounds - it'll start when everyone clicks ready.

More, and clarifications later.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Typhy, I'd agree with you except I'd restrict 3rd person to normal, not free, so you can't watch behind him.

Also, I don't know about unlimited time, I've already seen so much camping it's not even funny.  10 games in a row on CSL and the same three guys hid in their starting house behind boxes.

Changing maps isn't too much of a big deal.  You can change them at any time, even if it does take a bit of time.  I like the GhR way of the loser always picking the next map though.

I dare say that people having the crashing problem should reinstall from the CD's, since I've not had a single crash playing or hosting yet.

I also agree that just team survival for the first season of it.  Maybe more after we learn more about the game (and see if there are any good mods available).

[Typhy]

I agree with you about third person, Bucc.

I too hate the little gay dumbfucks who camp. However, wouldn't putting a time limit on just encourage it? In a 3v3, you lose 2 of your guys, you just find a camping spot where no one will find you. Time runs out, the game's a tie. Or would we be using the rules where the team with the most kills after, oh, say 5 minutes, wins? That could cause problems, first the fact that Raven Shield scores such games as ties. Second, you still have the camping problem - a team gets one kill, then they all fall back and camp.

Perhaps I'm underestimating just how long some people are willing to camp for, but it seems to me that the best way is to remove the time limit so there is no way out of a game aside from dying, or killing your oponent.

I never played a CB at GHR, so I haven't seen lots of gay campers, perhaps there are actually people out there who wouldn't mind sitting in a room with a gun pointed at a wall for 15 minutes?

edited to prevent flaming... Harvey
 

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Crypt, your machine specs are better than half of the guys that were kicking your ass in that game, so don't cry "you guys all have G5's", because we don't.

Typhy, I don't see why it would be any different than RS rules.  There are time limit there, or did I read it wrong?  What stopped people from camping in RS?

To put no time limit just means that he who gets sick of camping first will usually die if you have a couple campers left.  So yeah, I like the idea of the team with the most kills winning (even if RvS says tie, they should be able to figure it out).

[Toxic::Joka]

ANY OFF TOPIC POST WILL BE DELEATED.

The no time limit idea is a bad one, what if its a huge map where the both guys that are left are wounded and they slowly walk around looking for each other. Basically it could take forever even with the best intentions.

Isnt the AA ladder played with just 2 maps per cb? That could be a good idea here since its really tricky to change and it would take forever if you wanna have a new map each round.

The 3rd person camera, even if you didnt happen to have any use for it during a long time, dosent mean that it should be accepted. Those that are dead, really are dead they cant give an extra edge.

[crypt]

Crypt, your machine specs are better than half of the guys that were kicking your ass in that game, so don't cry "you guys all have G5's", because we don't.

Running at a 'smooth' (very sarcastic) 5-10 fps is really your idea of a better machine? I beg to differ.

Please don't post anymore on that.

[Typhy]

Bucc, in the 100+ RS CBs that I played, there was never a time limit. However, I'd support the idea of the team with the most kills winning.

Joka, I disagree about third person. Regardless of wether it can be used to give you an advantage or not is outside the question. It's much more enjoyable to spectate through it. Isn't fun what CBs are about?

Crypt, Bucc is running a Dual 867 G4, 1.5GB PC133 RAM, 32MB NVIDIA GeForce 4 MX. You're running a iMac 800 Mhz 17" Flatscreen LCD, 768 MB RAM, GeForce MX 4 32 MB VRAM.

Same video card. RAM doesn't come into play, sense with my 1GB I never page out in RvS, and I seriously doubt that you do. Dual processors offer almost no improvement in RvS, so the difference is about 67Mhz.

More importantly, quit your fucking whinning. If your machine can't run the game for shit, then don't play the game. It's that simple; but don't give me this "oh, I have to camp because my framerates suck" bullshit.

Added in:

I am on the 800 Mhz iMac 17" flatscreen, 768 RAM, and a Ge-Force MX 2 32 MB VRAM. I have to say, it runs damn well, I tried it all settings on low, but then i tried bumping the settings up. I did that and i still could play the game very well, although a bit buggy (can be fixed) I would rate this game a 9.2 out of 10, definitely worth the purchase.

That's from Crypt in the RvS thread in the General Gossip. "damn well", huh?

[kos.viper]

I thought Bucc had a 933MHz.  That GeForce4 MX 32MB is probably the biggest factor holding you back.

Typhy, 25 hours of play in 72 hours of owning the game?

[Typhy]

Yeah, Alaric and I played like 12 hours in one day, including 6 straight. It was raining, there was nothing better to do.

Viper, Bucc switched his 933 to a server, he's now using a Dual 867.

[KoS Ultimo]

There are time limit there, or did I read it wrong?  What stopped people from camping in RS?

There was no rule against camping and nothing stoppped people. The only thing that held everyone back was respect. If you won a cb by camping, then it was just as good as lossing in many poeple's eyes. RS was about respect.

[crypt]

Oh, sry about that Typhy, I said it in there to show people with similar computers that it was a great game and should get it, I guess i thought those teams were unfair, and I don't see how you can hold me to something that I did one time forever, just quit. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT

[Noto]

...The only thing that held everyone back was respect. If you won a cb by camping, then it was just as good as lossing in many poeple's eyes. RS was about respect.

LOL... Come on Ultimo.  How many people were actually playing RS CB's?  Not nearly as much as GhR nowadays.  The reason why people didn't camp in RS was because there weren't that many of you out there in the first place.  Camping is part of the game, and it is a big part in many games.  Many clans out there use camping as a strategy to piss off their opponents, and guess what, it works at times.  So to say camping was held back in RS by the respect for one another, then you obviously didn't read the 10,000+ posts that came before this.  Direct flaming, trash talking, and other nonsense wasn't held back by this "respect" you speak off.  Why would camping, in a game where bragging rights are on the line, be reduced by the respect, or lack of, shown on these very forums?

My post, as well as yours, is pretty much off topic from what Gen Harvey was trying to discuss here.  Now to get back on topic, camping is a part of the game, and since there are far more gamers than there were in the "Old RS Days of Glory", you have far more choices of who to CB and who to avoid because you might find camping unbearable to play against.  I have not played RvS yet, but I'm sure there is still some of the same objective based game play that you found in RS, R6, and GhR.  Let the campers camp.  I have never seen a clan win a ladder because they camped their way to victory.  It doesn't happen, and it has nothing to do with "respect".  

.::|N| Noto

P.S.  This is a virtual world that we play in, with ages ranging anywhere from approximately 10 - 50.  Respect will never find a home in the gaming world when it comes to clan to clan, or person to person.  If you find yourself having "respect" for a group or individual online, think about the fact that it just some kid on the other end of that line, a kid you probably couldn't stand in real life anyway, let alone respect.  Just play the game and have fun with the game.  Let the elusive "respect" be the icing on the cake so to speak.  Don't let it be the core center for playing a computer game.  Some of you take this gaming stuff way too seriously.  Have fun!

[*DAMN Hazard]

Um, Noto... Ultimo for the most part is right. Only "noobs" camped and didn't care then no one cbed them because no one wanted to be camped for an hour and come out with a loss. If you ever won a cb by camping you couldn't imagine the amount of shit talking you would receive in the main chat or the forums. "The only way you can win a cb is by camping" etc. So maybe you shouldn't comment on something you have no experience in.

Now for my cb structure suggestion:

Clans play best out of 5 MAPS. To win a map you have to win best of 5 games on that map. Map selection alternates starting with visiting team first. So here is a scenario.

Clan A plays Clan B on Clan A's host. Clan B selects the map. Clan A wins 3 out of the 5 games played on the map. Therefore they win that map.

Score 1-0.

Then the clans keep playing maps until someone wins best out of 5 maps.

[crypt]

Camping is boring, and doing it to win is also boring. Believe me, I've experienced that.

[Jeb]

typhy, you seem to forget about all the noobs (yes noobs) who have killed the levels of respect in the community since ghr. However this has gotten much better as of late. I personally think many people worked to earn respect in the RS community to play on the good team with the respected players rather on the huge team of bad players in games.

I was one of the premier campers in RS, but it was only something done for fun once the game got boring. I really don't remember any cbs with massive amounts of camping, excluding the IRSL when ejo and i pwned typhy and infection 6-0 with c4 to win us the championship!

The thing with RVS that hurts camping is the 4 minute time limit, i doubt you'd find many people actually trying to camp.

[Typhy]

6-0? Bullshit! I left for pizza in the middle of a 20 minute round with you guys C4 camping at Spa, with you and jo leading 2-1. However, the IRSL was a joke anyway.

Last game of RvS I played ( about 10 minutes ago ), I had 5 kills, 3 deaths. All 3 deaths came to campers. It gets really tedious, and while I like RvS, campers are the reason it can never be as good as RS.

[kos.viper]

Ya, I just got done w/ a round where a camper was sitting in a corner by his spawn point and easily scored 4 kills from shooting people in the back.

That's not skill.

[Typhy]

I mentioned this to Alaric earlier.

There's one kind of camping, there where you fall back, standing up or crouching down in the open. That's waiting. Trying to get someone to play into your trap; this isn't a camp if you hold it for 5 seconds or so.

There's another kind of "fall back" camping. You fall back, dive behind a box, and peak your head out and wait. Regardless of how long you hold this spot for, you're a camper, you're not trying to fall back, you have the obvious intent of waiting for the enemey to come to you. However, this isn't a bad camp.

What's a bad camp, is jumping into a corner, and simply waiting for your oponents to come along.

I have no problem with "fall back campers". It's your job to not fall into their traps - go around them, hit 'em from the side or behind. Gas them, frag them, or call for help.

When someone camps in a corner, it's not the job of the assaulter to be watching out for these newbies. The game would be amazingly gay. It's be soooo slow paced if you were expected to check every corner of every room.

It's the job of every player not to camp in corners, and, in my opinion, it's the job of hosts to boot people who do.

[PsYcO aSsAsSiN]

If you want a good set up for Raven Shield clan battles, I suggest you follow the pattern set up by TWL...it is very equitable and not many people complain about it. The only people who would complain about it are the spray and pray noobs who load cmags onto a scoped weapon like the AUG or Enfield.

http://www.teamwarfare.com/rules.asp?set=Rainbow+Six+3%3A+Raven+Shield+4+Man+Team+Survival+Rules

A derivation of these rules would be the best solution in my opinion based upon my experience as a ladder admin and a player.