Meeting-point for Finalists

[Flies]

Hi all finalists !

Hidden around here on DAMN-site, we have started to schedule the CBs.
I am making this new thread, just in hope we could have one official place to put our Scheduling,
wether its a question of timing or number of players.

I will start myself with a direct message to N-Diesel:


"I have just been informed that the 9 day timeframe for the Finals will stay.

Thats OK with us in !-clan.

But then we would have to ask N-clan for a quick and serious decision upon when to play.
The default hours and number of players in the rules are OK with us, and until we hear from N-clan, I guess we have to stick to them:

I sugggest we do first CB tonight at 22:30 GMT/ 5:30 EST,? 4v4 or more.
I suggest we do 2.nd and 3.rd. CB tomorrow at 22:30 GMT/ 5:30 EST, 4v4 or more.

These suggests are just as written in rules.? Contact me Quick Diesel, either here or on email or whatever. I know you think this sucks - but I tried to help, and now im running out of ideas myself.

Best regards - and ty for a funny conversation last night on nf btw :-)

l ! l? Flies

[.::|N| DIESEL]

I cannot believe there will not be an extension.  My clients are way more flexible [except for uffy  ] than this ladder.  This ladder seems to run by people that are never in the finals nor are competitive on the ladder.   For one, its a goddman game.  Making an extension really would not do any harm.  Second, way the finals were planned out this season is a bit unfair.  This is our SECOND season with playing a Euro clan in the finals.  There is no way that any of our guys are online until late in the evening for the Euros.  I feel that come next season, the .::|N|etwork may not will not be joining this ladder due to huge time constraints after the END of a hard working season.  

As for Flies-

Firstly, make that first cb on Tuesday.  We never discussed having one on Monday being that NOBODY would be on.  The most I can say is I will try to make it on Tues to kick off the first match.  Please dont forget that just because these times are decent for you and OUTRAGEOUS for us--that they are official.  

And btw, nice conversation last night.  

POST ZE TIME!!!  LOL

[.::|N|SOC]

fyi: 22:30 gmt = 17:30 est = 14:30 pst

that's the equation for us.

some of our players are being forced to play at 2:30pm? that's reasonable?

two days in a row?

they are supposed to tell their bosses TODAY that they have to leave early today and tomorrow?

sound good to anyone here?

didn't think so.

NOT reasonable. sorry.

take a nap and stay up late. not so reasonable for you either, right?

[Flies]

22:30 GMT

That is 23:30 for me....and 00:30 for Joka.

I am sorry, but starting  at midnight, and then play 3 full "best-of-ten" cb?s in a row,
on a normal weekday - thats a no-go from here.

I am forced to ask you either to do one cb today and the rest tomorrow - or do one "best-of-16" tomorrow.

Best regards

l ! l  Flies

[.::|N| DIESEL]

Forced?!

Flies--

Check this.  I know your concerned about the well-being of your clan, but this is a two way street for 2 teams; not one.  We can honor one of your desired times to play but then you must honor ours.  This is the only fair way.  We are not playin on your schedule only.  Please dont start to blow this out of proportion.

Btw, from the nf conversation last night flies.  Monday was never an option.  I believe it was Tuesday.  Please take me for a goddamn idiot.  

And why arent any of the Moderators posting a reply to this thread.  I see elan is posting to threads that arent nearly as important as this is.  Some kind of response would be appreciated.

[Flies]

It actually hurts me a bit, that you dont think I tried to help on this matter.

But lets stick to the right proportions then - and go by the rules:

....."Attention: in the finals you have to play! The default cb times are one cb per day - EUR vs EUR clans at 8:00pm GMT, US vs US clans 9pm EST(New York Time) and EUR vs US clans 10:30pm GMT(5:30pm EST) and if your clan comes from outside EUR or US the default time is 6:00pm GMT. # of players is up to you. If you can't decide the default # of players will be taken......."

Yesterday, when I asked for scheduling, I was informed by N-Noto that the N-clan couldnt CB Sunday at 22:30 GMT. Or any time at all Sunday. In fact N-Noto at that time said N-clan was pissed and would forfeit the whole ladder.
I have a copy of that chat.

This leaves us with two days to do the CB?s. Today and tomorrow.

The rules say one CB pr. day by default - and 4v4 players by default.
This means that we can still hope it will only be 2 CB?s (if one of the clans wins both), but since your clan had better time tomorrow, I suggest we aim for one tonight and "rest" tomorrow.

And plz dont shoot at me Diesel - I am only the piano-player here.

Best regards

l ! l  Flies

[Flies]

Diesel
(I am here trying to answer your edited post).

To me the situation right now isnt so difficult, that we need a moderator to help us out.

I have offered you to stick by the rules as described - or do a single  "best of 16" CB tomorrow.
You are of course also welcome to do the "best of 16" today.

Now I think I have done suggestions enough.. I even tried to change the whole finals-system for you :-)

Unless I get a serious suggest from you, the Core-clan will be here today at 22:30 GMT with at least 4 players, rdy for a "best-of-ten" CB.

We hope to meet you - we like the N-clan, and would hate to go on, based upon forfeits or any other stupid stuff.

Best regards
l ! l  Flies
 

[*DAMN Elandrion]

I see elan is posting to threads that arent nearly as important as this is.  Some kind of response would be appreciated.

actually, I try to stay out of rules discussions, because this does not really fall into my responsibility. you'll have to ask Mauti about that.

Elan

[*DAMN Hazard]

And why arent any of the Moderators posting a reply to this thread.

I just woke up, sorry I will schedule my time around problems that don't require me. What would you like us to do? Say "Ok, Diesel you usually walk your dog at 6:30 but if you walk him at 4:30 that leaves time for you to cb."

Mods aren't here to moderate your schedule. Get on NF, get in a convo on GR or even in a PM here. Get times that are good for both clans. What else would you like us to do? Call your boss?

[Aramarth]

The issue here, haz, isnt that we want anything from you beyond simple clarification.  My clan would appreciate if you (the mods) would make it clear that we are not in danger of a forfeit due to scheduling conflicts.

Reality is the pain in the butt here.  It is just plain impossible for west-coasters to play at 1430 their time.  Today, monday, I cant just jump on and play, because I have this little thing called a college exam.  Tomorrow, I can play basically whenever, but thats no help if I dont have teamates.

Flexibility is all we ask.  We will do our best to get online, but that only helps if the core clan returns the favor.

[c| Splinter]

In my opinion, an extension has to be allowed.  This scheduling problem will not end with .::|N| vs !.  If c| was in .::|N|'s place, we also wouldn't be able to play.  It's not fair to ask Euro players to stay up till 3am, and it's not fair to ask US players to cut out of school/work to come play a video game.  Weekends are the only neutral time for everyone.

[Noto]

Greeting and salutation from the sunny State of Florida!  I hope all of you realize that a thread concerning The .::|N|etwork without a reply from Noto is simply not a thread at all!  

And yes, this does concern The .::|N|etwork, very much so indeed.

GEN BILLY, DIESEL, and myself had at least a 30 minute conversation with | ! | Flies yesterday.  It took place on NF and in a locked, premium chat room hosted by myself.  Personally, I have no problem with | ! | Flies.  The rules that have been created to deal with problems about U.S. vs. Euro clans is what The .::|N|etwork has a problem with.  If there is any evidence of favoring (favouring) towards the European clans, then this rule wins all possible trophies.  Why have no other clans challenged this rule before?  That's easy.  

There have been so many other 'rules' that have been challenged or questioned this season, that this "finals CB time" rule has been overlooked until now.  Plus, nobody really cared about this rule until it affected them.  It obviously affects The .::|N|etwork because this rule forces our U.S. players to play at hours during work and school.

Perhaps what is lacking here is the understanding of cultures across the Atlantic.  American society is a very 24-hour society.  Just because 5pm rolls around definitely does not mean that the world stops.  We have many, many companies that are open 24 hours a day.  In short, Americans no longer punch out for the day, and then rest at home.  I, for instance, attend school anywhere from 8 in the morning to 8 at night.  I have a job that keeps me until 2 and 3 in the morning some times.  This is life for Americans, and I think any American participating in this battle league can agree as to what I am pointing out.  This rule completely caters to the Euro players because it allows them to play at night, which is when the day is more or less over.  Well guess what, North American GhR players play mostly at night as well.  Do we do this on purpose? No, we do it because the majority of what we have to do in a day is over by nightfall and we are able to play from dusk until the next dawn.  Has anyone ever check out how many players are on during the day? VERY FEW, AND THEY ARE MOSTLY EURO.  The North Americans start coming on around 7pm, and the majority are here around 9pm.

Now to get to a point.  Not only does this rule give Americans an early time to start playing, but coupled together with the fact that the round has to be played within 3 days makes it nearly impossible to coordinate a clan battle properly.  Also, the end of the season happened to be on a Sunday morning.  Had planning and thought gone into this, the regular season should have ended on a Wednesday or a Thursday.  This would have left time open for the first round of the finals to be played on a weekend, and the last round to finish on a weekend as well.  Such a simple little thing could have avoided some of the problems we are encountering at this time, but due to a gross oversight, the final round of the finals actually ends on a Monday.

What were the reasons of reducing the amount of time the finals were to be played? It probably had to do with the fact that the finals should not be drawn out for weeks at a time.  I think finals last season were three weeks long.  If the intentions were to reduce the time the finals were to be played, why not make it a day per round? Friday first round, Saturday second round, and Sunday third and final round.  At least everyone can plan for that at the beginning of the season.  I know The .::|N|etwork, BTs, c| and [one] would never have imagined having to play a Euro clan during the weekday for a finals round.  This is ridiculous.

I think I have proven my point that the formula set by this BL: Finals : Shorter rounds + fixed times + weekdays : Does not Equal : A properly run finals.

Do I have a suggestion for what to do? Yes, I do have a suggestion.  If there are going to be fixed times, which conflict for the majority of US players, then why not fix the days in which to play the rounds?  How about weekends?  How about not on mondays, which is notoriously the busiest day of the week worldwide?  Weekends have always been the best neutral time to play GhR.  The weekends bring more traffic to GR than the weekdays.  I would love to play | ! | on Saturday, and then if we win, play the next round of finals that day, and the the final round on Sunday!  The finals could be wrapped into one weekend or two, and could still be played on the weekdays, but to force US players, especially West Coast US, to play when they have work and school during their daytime hours is simply unfair.

I ask that the Moderators, no matter how lowly you think you are or what level on contribution you give, to chime in on this.  If I were a Euro player, I would not want to play at 3 and 4 in the morning for the sake of a video game, and then have to get up the next morning for school.  As a US player, I will not skip school or work for a video game.  Come on Moderators, put yourself in in the shoes of BOTH SIDES.

If an extension, or modification of the rules cannot be agreed to, then The .::|N|etwork will be forced to forfeit this round of the finals.  We really have no other choice.  There is a 10 hour difference between the Western most players of .::|N| and the Eastern most players of | ! |.  The rules simply do not take into account that a situation of this nature is possible.

.::|N| Noto

[Noto]

Hey Flies, I must have missed this post when I was writing my first one.  I originally said I had no problem with you.  Now I do have a problem with you.  I have a problem with how you try to spin everything against us and how you seemingly tried all you could.  Flies, you can eat shit and die.  Seriously, Eat shit, then die.

On the flexibility part I think I tried hard enough.

I'm sorry, there were 3 .::|N| members discussing flexibility with you, I failed to see any other | ! | members around.  Eat shit and die.

We tried to give you all our possible times Yesterday, N. They were not good enough for you.

We also gave you times yesterday.  None of those times were good enough for you either, in fact, I believe we offered more possible time periods than you did.  Eat shit and die.

We tried to get you to cb yesterday N. That couldnt do for you.

Well, to be honest, we thought we were going against the co||ective.  Most of our guys come on at night.  In fact, Flies, we had more members online at the scheduled 5:30pm EST start time for the CB.  You had only 2 members online, including yourself.  Eat shit and die.

We tried to get extension of the season. That didnt work either.

We?  We?  You said you were going to talk to Mauti because you and him were "tight" and that you would be able to get an extension.  You made it sound like Mauti was your bitch.  And yet again, eat shit and die.

The discussion is good in itself - and I too can add a few comments on that
- but it just no longer can be used to stall the actual N vs ! cb.

Are you accusing us of stalling?  Diesel, Billy, and myself called people and got them online yesterday.  If we were trying to stall, why would we bother typing this out??  Hey Flies, we'll CB you girly man, but your crew might have to post pone their bed time.  Tell them to ask their mommies right now.  I'm sure it's easier to ask mommy to stay up playing video games than it is to tell our bosses we have to leave early.  Eat shit and die.

P.S. of all the options I opened for you "N", you didnt reply to - or accept any of them.
I would have thought myself we could have agreed on something, but now I have to leave, and I wont be back untill an hour before the CB. Good luck tonight - and may the best clan win.

You opened a can of shit Flies.  Not only did we reply to them, but I pointed out on numerous occasions that there is a 10 hour difference between our players and your players.  You actually didn't suggest anything other than what the rules had already posted.  You make it sound like you were peddling times to us and we wouldn't agree to the right price.  That's horse pussy!  We had this same situation with [V] last season, and it was only resolved by playing on the weekend.  Flies, your suggestsions were not suggestions, they were parroted quotes of the stated rules.  By the way, where were all of your guys yesterday at 5:30pm EST?  Eat shit and die.

.::|N| Noto  

[.::|N| DIESEL]

I just woke up, sorry I will schedule my time around problems that don't require me. What would you like us to do? Say "Ok, Diesel you usually walk your dog at 6:30 but if you walk him at 4:30 that leaves time for you to cb."

Mods aren't here to moderate your schedule. Get on NF, get in a convo on GR or even in a PM here. Get times that are good for both clans. What else would you like us to do? Call your boss?

Haz-

If you were close enough I would slap the immaturity right out of your ass.  I simply posted for a time extention that caters to all members of the finals, namely the .::|N|etwork.  I was looking for some official opinion from the Moderators and yet again I get some faggot ass bullshit response from some another smart ass with a little title under his named that reads:  "BL Moderator."  You need to grow up.  How about I give you a second chance to rethink the prior post and maybe, just maybe you can give me a straight answer to the topic at hand.  Go ahead I dare you.

On another note, Maybe having only 2 moderators that are active in the BL presents a problem because the others just dont care or cannot relate.  Hmm... Just somthing to think about.

[.::|N|SOC]

just because the DAMN rules set a default time (which favors one side versus the other) does not make it FAIR.

our whole point is that if you would rather win by NOT playing us because that is what the rules state... then that is pretty pathetic.

Heck, maybe you'll get lucky and win the next round the same way. By dodging it.

And don't give me any bs about us stalling or trying to dodge you. We beat y'all last season in the finals, and we'll do it again this season. If we get to play.

(PS: read this whole thing whle standing on your head. I think I like the ! guys  as much as anyone on the BL. I think they know this. But we are truly getting shafted by these rules. I don't think you guys are being unfair at all...it's the rules that are unfair, and they happen to be on your side.)

[*DAMN Hazard]

You want my straight answer? Here it is: I have no problem with clans waiting till the weekend to cb. If another mod seconds this motion fine.


whoops sorry haz - I clicked the wrong button so I deleted half of your post ( - Elan

[.::|N| DIESEL]

Haz--

This was all I was asking for:

You want my straight answer? Here it is: I have no problem with clans waiting till the weekend to cb. If another mod seconds this motion fine.

This is only because of the time constraint from a euro and US based clan.  The only thing we are asking for are for our matches agains | ! |  to be allowed on the weekends so we dont have this problem during the week given the time constraint at hand.  This ladder has always been fun and needs to remain fun.  The impossible schedule to compete in the finals should not be so difficult.  This really shouldnt be that hard to figure out.  

.::|N| vs | ! | = weekend.


Thanks

[*DAMN Hazard]

Yea, like I said I apologize to N and !. I just get messed up with forum bs sometimes.

[Noto]

actually, I try to stay out of rules discussions, because this does not really fall into my responsibility. you'll have to ask Mauti about that.

Elan

...I didn't give an answer because in case you didn't know it takes 2 mods to agree on a ruling to make it happen....

To be honest with you Haz, I do not think most of the people posting towards the admins know the rules of the admins.  I have heard it had to be at least two admins, but which two admins?  It always seems that certain admins post about certain things.  Can an admin clear up admin responsibility confusion in a new thread defining what the roles of the admins actually are?  I think that might clear up confusion on our parts as to what we are wanting from admins.  Thanks.

.::|N| Noto

P.S. Flies, you can still eat shit and die.  You are not by any chance a lawyer, are you?  You spin the situations of others' masterfully.  I applaude you for that twisted gift that you possess, you little manipulator you.  

[| ! | Dutchman]

.::|N| vs | ! | = weekend.

I think we all know that would be the best solution. If the admins could stretch the first round with only 3 days, The Network and The Core will be very thankfull.

Hell, I'll even send you one of my sheep.

Dutchman