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spike
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« on: September 25, 2003, 03:03:27 am »

im suprised this hasnt come up yet in the forum. its probably because most of our opinions are the same. but id be interested to here what people think about the issue, and what the music industry is doing wrong/right
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« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2003, 03:20:13 am »

I decline to answer this post on the grounds that it might incriminate me.
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« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2003, 03:34:54 am »

hm, i hadnt thought about it that way....well i guess if nails answer serves for all of you, this thread is dead before it started
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« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2003, 08:18:25 am »

I can neither confirm nor deny....
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« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2003, 08:51:10 am »

I can't deny, however :looks at iTunes:, I can confirm. Wink

Personally, I think the RIAA is going about things the wrong way.

For me, at least, the more of this shit that they do, the more it encourages me to pirate music, mostly to be stuborn, and show that they can't change what I'm doing.

The best way to prevent against music pirates would be to promote things like Apple's Music store, and encourage setups which allow you to purchase a single song at a time.  
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« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2003, 03:45:17 pm »

i would like to plead the 5 th, and my attorney mr cocrane will do all the rest of my speaking for me...
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« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2003, 06:31:29 pm »

The thing that pisses me off the most is how people act like stealing music is more noble then stealing a TV or a car.

If you are against the status quo and how they sell music now, there are plenty of legal ways to protest.  But stop pretending that it's anything better then shoplifting a new iPod from BestBuy or pinching someone's bicycle.  It's not.

And Typhy, the RIAA does support iTunes, and iTunes is up and running.  So if you've pirated anything since iTunes has been up, you are just lying to yourself.
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« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2003, 07:35:45 pm »

alright wtf is RIAA?  and me steal music well i have one thing to say about that!, NONONONOy34NONONONONO

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« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2003, 07:54:06 pm »

The RIAA is the lobbying group for the whole recording industry.  It represents the labels, artists, distributers, etc.  

The reason you hear about the RIAA going after pirates is because the way that copyright laws are structured, someone needs to actually file a suit about infringement to enforce the laws.

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« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2003, 08:13:06 pm »

Stealing an ipod or pinching a bike are different from illegally downloading songfiles--much more of an adrenaline rush, lol.  (One would imagine)...
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« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2003, 09:42:01 pm »

http://www.boycott-riaa.com/

I've downloaded music and will continue to, although only a tiny minority of the music I download is from RIAA artists (not saying this justifies it). I understand that the RIAA has made efforts to try to please the consumer in light of the file-sharing controversies of past years, but their efforts have been pathetic. None of the artists I listen to have spoken out against file sharing, but for those that have, I give them this challenge: you must provide a way for people to listen to your record, in the comfort of their own homes, before buying it. It's unreasonable to expect anyone to buy something based on advertising or one single that happens to be on the radio (or more likely than not, not on the radio, since that medium is basically dead). Here are some other links that sum up the way I feel about this and the Record Industry's role in music:

Atlantic Monthly article about music royalties

and everyone who has ever bought a compact disc should read this:
Steve Albini on the Major Labels

So while I'm not saying its moral or justified to steal music, its going to happen, and the RIAA needs to come up with a way to deal with it. I do hate the RIAA with a passion, but I understand that they have the law on their side.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2003, 09:42:50 pm by tasty » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2003, 10:30:07 pm »

I live in Sweden so the RIAA can't touch this. Dunununu, can't touch this. *reveals his 30 GB stash of music*
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« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2003, 02:04:15 am »

how would u like if you worked hard for something, then millions of people stole it, and you knew you can make money on it.
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« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2003, 02:09:56 am »

Heres my point of view...

RIAA great and everything.... They are serving a good point and all. But im still gona download. Actually instead of doing apples or any1 elses mp3 programs. I found out this cooool way to download and give the guy to wrote it the $$$. Basically it works like, you download a song anywhare then u send the artist the money. Im kinda fussy on how it works nor i have a website off the back of my mind to show you. It beats apple lames selection of artists. (im not saying itunes store is lame, im saying its selection sucks for what i want)
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« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2003, 02:49:14 am »

The thing i dont get is how Sony, or any other companies that make MP3 PLAYERS dont get any shit. I seriously doubt anyone who uses them has actually baught the cds, and then copied it to their HD and then uploaded onto the mp3 player.
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« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2003, 07:49:55 am »

Blake, all the music on my MP3 player is music I bought either on CD and ripped or from through iTunes.  So take your doubts away.
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« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2003, 07:55:19 am »

Blake, all the music on my MP3 player is music I bought either on CD and ripped or from through iTunes.  So take your doubts away.

Now I'm just dying to know?

What does buccaneer listen to?
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« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2003, 08:29:40 am »

Here's another thought for you guys.  All of the Tasty's out there that don't think the artists against p2p file sharing.  This is from the AFTRA (American Federation of Television & Radio Artists).  ie, the Union for many of the artists out there.  You can find this at http://www.aftra.org/ .  One thing you have to remember, while Madonna or Metalica may not hurt from losing the cash, there are plenty of studio musicians and others that are being directly hurt by file sharing.  It's no different stealing music, books, movies, or software.  You may as well shoplift your copy of Raven Shield as download it from some bit torrent.  It's the same thing.  And "sharing" music is no different then stealing the CD from the truck that was shipping it.  Shit, if you at least stole it from the store you'd only be hurting your local store, the industry and the artists would still get the cash.

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT PIRACY  

Ann Chaitovitz
 National Director, Sound Recordings
 AFTRA  

Piracy has devastated the music industry and now threatens other entertainment industries and all performers' livelihoods.   For example, a pre-final cut of the movie "The Hulk" was on the Internet pre-release, and the "Harry Potter" movie landed on the Internet pre-US release (due to a screening in London).

The problems of piracy are not new.  For example, most of us made cassettes of our dorm-mates' albums in college.  But with taping, the album was only available to a limited number of people and there was degradation in quality from the vinyl record to the cassette.  

While digital technology has created many opportunities for the industry and for performers, when a recording is posted on-line, it is:  



available to millions of people,


who are able to copy it quickly,


without any degradation of quality.




We must remember that technology is not bad or the enemy.  We must harness opportunities of technology and minimize the threats -- something the music industry has been unable to do.  

Just as radio was the canary in the coal mine for media consolidation, music is the canary in the coal mine tale for Internet piracy.  Because of limitations on bandwidth and compression technologies, music was one of first types of works to be vulnerable to Internet piracy, but as those limitations are disappearing, other types of works are now becoming vulnerable.  Approximately, 400,000 to 600,000 films are downloaded illegally everyday.  

How Did We Get Here?  

 So, why have so many people turned to illegitimate music piracy? We must understand the causes of music piracy, so other industries can learn from them and not repeat the same mistakes.

 Music Piracy is largely a reaction to the radio and music industry's inadequate servicing of fans that want music. At the same time technology was developing, five other important things were happening:  





Cassettes and singles were being eliminated: singles have been each generation's first experience in buying music.  The single would bring young people into the stores and introduce them to purchasing music.




The record labels stopped or restricted new artist development.




The record labels focused on the 12 to 25 year-old demographic and mostly ignored those over 35.




The record industry tried to freeze the existing paradigm and keep control over distribution mechanisms.  It did not take advantage of the opportunities presented by new technology -- until fairly recently, the record labels did not work with new technologies or offer good legitimate services.  



This forced people who wanted to take advantage of the opportunities presented by new technology to use illegitimate services and created an entire generation of people who think music is, and should be, free.  

The consolidation of owners within the radio industry is one of the major causes of piracy.  Consolidation resulted in homogenized and narrow repetitive playlists which forced music fans to try to find music in new ways, and there weren't any legitimate alternatives available, so many music fans turned to illegitimate services.





Where We Are Now  

 Piracy now threatens the music industry.  Here are some statistics evidencing the threat:  

The worldwide industry went from $40 billion in 2000 to $26 billion in 2002 (not all due to piracy -- other factors include the recession, competition from DVDs, etc.).


Users now download more than 2.6 billion copyrighted files, mostly songs, each month.


KaZaa, a major peer-to-peer service, is adding new users at rate of 13 million a month, 270 new members a minute.


Blank CDs outstrip sales of pre-recorded music CDs by more than a 2 to 1 margin.




Piracy hurts artists, songwriters, the music industry and the public.  It makes it even more difficult for an artist to earn a livelihood and to continue honing his or her craft.  It harms the ability of the artist to earn health and retirement benefits -- if artists are unable to earn enough to qualify for health and retirement, they may then have to go on public assistance, hurting taxpayers.  As the music industry suffers and finds it difficult to make a profit, there will be less investment in new music, one of the few U.S. exports with a positive balance of trade.  

There also are economic repercussions: one needs broadband and computer access, which tend to to be more prevalent in the middle and upper classes, to download music files.  As a result, poorer citizens, who still have to purchase music, have to pay higher rates to subsidize the wealthier citizens, who can download.  

What We Must Do  

We are now playing catch up, and we need a multi-pronged line of attack in order to recreate a profitable U.S. music industry. We need to:    

offer comprehensive legitimate services
Huh?? these services must offer more than the illegitimate services - e.g. access to artists, priority tickets to live shows, a week of free streaming


educate the public about the dangers of the illegitimate services (e.g., pornography, enabling public access to information contained on one's computer) and make the illegitimate  services more unwieldy by practices like spoofing


educate the public about intellectual property and its artistic, cultural and economic value


undo the problems created by radio consolidation


enact legislation to educate the public and clarify the law.  There are two pieces of legislation now pending which demonstrate that Congress has acknowledged and is trying to address the devastating impact on-line piracy has had on artists, the music industry and the public.  The legislation recognizes the reality of the on-line environment and would provide the government with the resources and authority needed to educate the public and develop deterrence programs.


Music owners must sue services that are making money by providing opportunities and encouraging people to infringe sound recordings


Music owners may even need to sue individual infringers.  The district court in Grokster, currently on appeal, ruled that companies who make money by creating and distributing the software enabling and encouraging copyright infringement are not liable for their customers' infringement and that copyright owners have to sue the individuals committing the infringement.  The goal of such cases would be to educate the public about the law and the value of intellectual property and to deter future infringements
Huh?? The RIAA's announcement that it was subpoenaing the identities of individuals who have uploaded copyrighted recordings has had a deterrent effect and reduced the number of downloads.


It may already be too late to significantly reduce peer to peer on-line piracy.  Should we now acknowledge that peer to peer piracy will continue to exist, try to lessen its pervasiveness and figure out how to monetize it?

Other industries should pay attention to the lessons to be learned from new technology's impact on the music industry.        
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« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2003, 01:23:39 pm »


Blank CDs outstrip sales of pre-recorded music CDs by more than a 2 to 1 margin.
     

Only 2 to 1?  People use blank cds for a lot more than pirating music, for instance I have gigabytes and gigabytes of blank cds with shit ive burnt to conserve space on my hard drive.
Anyway, the thing that pisses me off the most about the RIAA is that the money doesn't go into the hands of the artists that made the music, but into the hands of filthy rich record executives.  And i find it sad that art has become some commercial.  Musicians like Motzart, Jimmy Hendricks, beethoven, segovia etc. Didn't start out because they wanted money, its because they wanted chicks, I mean because they had a passion.  I don't think filing law suits against their consumers will do anything either.  First of all they're hurting their own market, and secondly they will never be able to stop piracy, people are going to download, or copy music no matter how many people they sue(sp?).  I think you all heard how that 12 year old girl had a suit filed against her and settled out of court for about 2 grand.  The girl is 12 years old! She has no idea of the ethical issues that go with piracy, I guarentee you that all her friends did the same thing. 2000 dollars is a lot of money,  and I've heard of people with huge librarys of mp3's but think about how many cds 2000 dollars will get you.  The average price of a cd is about 13 bucks, 2000 divided by 13 is about 150 some odd albums.  Your average album has about 14 songs. 150 times 14 is 2100 songs.  My itunes library has 1228 songs with 91 cds i have purchased with my own money.  Now I find it hard to believe a 12 year old girl pirated over 2100 songs and have a library worth 2000 dollars.  So what if she broke the law, she is fucking 12 years old and does not deserve to be penalized.  They should've just made her buy the damn cds (which I'm sure she did considering she dished out the money to pay for kazaa's premium service). And besides, how many no talent boy bands could there posibbly be!
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« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2003, 07:53:46 pm »

1) They aren't suing their customers, they are suing thieves.  If they were customers, they would be buying, not stealing it.
2) The way copyright law works, the RIAA has to file suit.  That's the way the laws are enforced.
3) Mozart sold the rights to his music back in the day too.  Business 101, the artists SELL the rights to their music in many cases to the industry.  The industry is buying it on the basis that they will make more money off it.  They are assuming the risk in that case.  Recording contracts don't have to be set up that way, but most artists chose to in order to make the quick and sure buck.
4) I keep hearing about the costs of CD's going up, but they were $12-$14 when I started buying them years and years ago, and they still are.  So those arguments are just bullshit.
5) If a 12 year old steals a comic book worth $10k, her parents are still responsible, aren't they?  This should be no different.  Parents are responsible for their children, to teach them better.  Maybe that's where all this was lost.

Tasty, I listen to everything from Mozart to Barenaked Ladies.  You'll find plenty of Ska in my collection, quite a few books on CD that I listen to on planes, and just about everything that Toad the Wet Sprocket did.  The only thing you wont find much of is Rap and Country.  My iTunes has around 20 gigs worth of MP3's.  Why are you so interested?  Think I didn't listen to unsigned bands before they hit it big (if so, guess again).  I have CD's in my collection that were self produced by bands like BNL and the Virve Pipe (when they were actually a good house band at parties) and the Waltons before they ever signed.
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