Part 2 Season 5: Game modes, competition ladders and more

[Ssickboy]

Fridge good points, but...

I hope you are not thinking c| is bitter for losing first place, and thats why we want to adjust the BL?  Whether we got first or last, this is not a factor period.  

Whats wrong with competing balls to the wall?  Thats what makes the competition so exciting.  Thats what makes this fun to play.  Nothing wrong with playing a GAME serious.  If you wanna lolly gag through a game then go ahead.  I enjoy playing BTs the most because they DO play so hard to win, as do we, and that's what makes it so God damned exciting!  

Fridge seems to think we're out to ban campers.  Thats not the case.  Although a majority of us don't enjoy camping, the current rules inadvertantly give camping the advantage.  

Maybe the suggestions made are not perfect, and that is arguable.  But to lay back and do nothing gets us no where.  Instead of putting forth ideas to make this a better Damn BL (*applauds Aramarth), we have been arguing about whether it should be changed at all.  And unfortunately It seems those who'd rather the BL stay the same are in a majority (or is it?).  So all I can do is provide an opinion and hope it is clear.  

(IMPORTANT!)  You guys seem to forget, without the forum discussions and Mauti's hard work, the Ladder would not be where it is now.  Unfortunatley GhR didn't come with a built-in league ladder, so thats where we come in.  This is where such things are developed.  I feel like we're in the middle stages of developing a solid league.  Issues at hand are: point system, and game type.

[Aramarth]

There is no debate on at least one of your points fridge. Nothing we do will ever make the game perfect. However, by not trying one becomes a less productive person. The fact that there is debate and arguement over how to improve the ladder is a sign of strength (excluding post which have no thought behind them of course). Warzone, I do not believe, is the answer. Once I get my mod running, I will have an opinion on if it is a possible improvement. LMS, in its current form, is something we can no doubt do better than.

[TRIBE_Horda]

why not have two ladders, warzone and lms?its too bad assasination couldnt be traded off between teams and not a random decision. cause that would be a good game for the ladder. one team hunts and the other team defends(not a paticular spot, but a guy). i still like lms as the real ladder choice.

aye aye
i agree with Meat and Splinter
ad on adon
lms+warzone

dont remove lms!

[BFG]

Sounds better. I would greatly miss LMS were it to be lost. Warzone is kinda fun as are the other Game types... but I still think that LMS is the one for cb's. Its the most straightforward, true to life game type. No team can start with an advantage/dissadvantage, there is no going back, get shot and you die, and hell, it requires shit loads of tatics and teamwork.

ps. like aramarth said. wouldn't you just take a quick look at the timer when you see the enemy has the base... and subtract 3 mins? not particulally hard to do!

[cO.Vickedson]

I've played each and every style of Ghr and although I love the warzone as a game I have decided, for myself anyway, that LMS is best for the official ladder.

I agree with Eight in that there is plenty of action in drama in no spawn LMS cb games especially when a team is down a man and must "infiltrate" the other "camp".  Yeah okay, maybe everyone sits around for a minute or two discussing what the plan is gonna be but that's the fun in it right?  Why should a team be penalized because they got the first kill.  

In every cb I play against BTs they run the risk of first strikes and everyone knows it.  That's why they do so well because they take you down quick....However BTs should realize, and I think they have, that that first strike tendency can backfire with losing a man early.  They shouldn't just expect the "underdog" team to come attacking them while they're a man up.  A win's a win, no matter how it comes.  Different clans have different styles, I was just using BTs as an example but it applies to all.

I play very aggressive and quickly so "camping" is really never an issue with me personally...I tend to die early and prefer to take one or two with me before I go down.  So I don't ever get "bored" in LMS games...

But there IS a BIG problem with spawn points on many maps with warzone.  I've said it before...Embassy, Red Square, Stronghold, and Farm Day all get completely fucked up...especially with the 3 minute time limit.  That just ain't alot of time.  And when the hell are we supposed to play Docks???  Warzone doesn't even sound fun at all on that map....a map which happens to be one of my Clan Battle favorites.

Please keep the LMS ladder.  There are going to be 9-10 very serious, organized clans this season who all have a great chance to win it all...that sounds pretty exciting to me.  I think some of these clans making the biggest lobby for change should concentrate on CBing more as opposed to messin with shit.  I love playing in, cb's win or lose but I doubt warzone will hold up as the same.

-wicked

[Ssickboy]

Why should a team be penalized because they got the first kill.

You guys really seem to bend your own thoughts in order to defend LMS.  No one gets penalized for getting the first kill, whether it's WZ or LMS.  It's a reward no matter how you look at it.

Except in LMS, the reward for getting the first kill is huge.  Thats because you essentially only need that one kill in order to win.   And at this point, if you you're really good at camping out an edge of a map, you are rewarded again.  

The rewards (ideally) should go to the team with the best overall skill, teamplay, and movement control.  I think during the regular season this isn't a problem.  The cream will rise to the top.  Its in the finals where this LMS problem really makes a difference.  

[BTs_FahQ2]

Bah seven pages of complete bickering.  You make my damn eyes water.  Lets all just close our eyes and chant a mantra.

Wasn't that nice.

NOW FORGET THIS THREAD EXISTED.  

Let's just keep it all the damn same.  By the time this thread ends.  We will only be able to throw stones at 4 paces while 2 guys camp in the alley and the other guy tries to take my wallet.

For Christ's sake

[maytag]

Mauti, are you kidding me?  Do you not realize that there are about 2 clans supporting the warzone mod, c| and MP and everybody else pretty much hates it and hates the idea of it, after playing it also.  Mauti,  said it yourself, ghost recon is about tactical teamplay and warzone takes away from that, can't you see that?  It restricts the map to a small area, it forces a mad rush, it puts much of the outcome of the game into the hands of luck.  The tactical teamplay part of the game gets removed, it turns into a rush, and if you don't win the rush, often because of crappier spawns, you have 3 minutes  to win the game against odds.  It also makes it virtually impossible to win when you are outnumbered, there are no comebacks in warzone, because you can't play tacticallly, you have 3 minutes to take down a team, the thought is ludacris.  You can't hear a one sided argument from one person and decide, oh, that sounded convincing, warzone it is!  Try listening to both sides of the story, and also you say there needs to be a maplist, well the maps that have the most lopsided spawns are some of the most popular maps played, i.e. emassy and stronghold, do you want to take those out of ghr ladder play?  Mauti, no offense here, but I really don't think you understand ghost recon fully, or the whole warzone situation, the majority is strongly opposed to it and now you want to implement it based on a biased e-mail?  The game is meant to be played cautiously, it is not a balls to the wall game, look at the maps and try to come up with any argument to support that ghost recon is a game that is supposed to be played very aggressively.  Why are you trying to change the vision that the game was created upon?  Does every game have to be played the same? Ridiculous

[bobo]

to aramarth this isn't real war it is a computer game there are no armies or air support there are just a bunch of ppl at computer twitching their wrists and compressing keys we dont want to hear your army geek points.  were not playing the game to be wannabe soldier boy tryin to save the freeworld were playing it because its a fun shooter, well the majority of us at least but there are the odd geeks i suppose who tip their chair over backwards and make dying noises on the ground everytime their character gets shot but im happy to not be one of them

[Ssickboy]

maytag and bobo... do you guys play in the ladder?  I think your posts are a great example of those opinions (even some from the ladder) that have little understanding about the issues we have been trying to address.  Check this... A list of those who put extreme amounts of time into competing on the ladder.  These guys are practicly the only one's with a great understanding of the issues at hand.  (I list the more established players involved on the Ladder)

BTs Eight                  
      Fusion
      Signtist
      HellBent
      Sturm
      Static
***Towards the end of Season 3 and begining of Season 4, BTs was the first to actively point out their displeasure of increasing camping tactics used by well established clans.  Towards the end of Season 4, BTs seemed to find their groove working within the LMS rules, and went onto win the Season.  They Don't support anything other than LMS.  They have kept an open mind and have thoroughly(??) and unbiasedly(??) tested out optional gametypes and suggestions. (?? help me out here)

[!]  Flies
      Dutchman
      Joka
      Ross
***Winners of Season 3, with exception of Joka (well experienced himself)  When they were virus they dominated with some of the first organized team tactics on the GhR ladder.  Things have changed since they have become more active again,  everyone has tactics now!!!!  Not exactly sure what their opinions are on LMS, but they have been very open to considering change, and providing very helpful feedback.  

.::N Diesel
       Gen. Billy
       Juggla
       Soc
       Noto
*** Some of the hardest hitters of all clans.  "Just F'kin PLay" seems to be their moto.  They will support anything.  There has been heavy evidence of their support for Ladder adjustments.
 
MOD BFG Gen
        Saberian
        Sivak
*** Very very crafty group of players.  Not sure what their overall opinion is, but this is for sure... they know exactly what I mean when I say, "LMS gives camper tactics an advantage and unfortunately it promotes more camping as a means to win."

c|     Dr. NO
        Splinter
        Valdar
        Lin
        Pyroman
***That's us.  Love the Macs, and innovative Multiplayer games.  All thanks to constant improvements, and relentless attempts to make it all better, one step at a time.  

|MP|  Lothario
         Buccaneer
         Jeb  
***(although not making the finals)  these guys were there throughout the season hosting a lot of the BIG matches.  They also were in the loop about serious battle discussion.  This clan is made up of all Vets to GhR and RS and have been around since the early days of the DAMN ladder.  These guys know very well the Ins and outs of GhR, and their opinion always mattered, despite the little time spent actually competing in season 4.  they know, they see, they hear.  They have many great ideas, and just like all good thinkers, not every idea is a perfect one.    


Sincere apologies to those who I missed that belonged on this list of players.  One reminder, this is Mauti's gig.  He makes whatever decission he wants, and its final.  Thankfully he has been open to opinions (actually I dont even know anymore)

[Fusion]

I speak for BTs when I say this,

We have tried out warzone and have found our faults with the mod, we are however anxiously waiting to see Aramarths mod. I have talked with him in great lengths and I look forward to giving that a try.

Now I, Fusion, say that even though people camp in LMS it is still the best style of gameplay to me. Even if we would have lost the season, I still dont think I would be out to change it. Yes we get irritated with constant campers but, if that is how they want to play let them. This is a game for all to enjoy. We did find that alot of clans DID NOT camp constantly.  I hope this all gets resolved soon, we just want to play.

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

i know that my clan |GM| is a new clan but our senoir players are fairly experienced. As a clan we are against the WZ mod. I do see a need for change and im awaiting Aramarths mod to test it out. I look forward to a great season 5 and i hope that you guys will participate in some of the multiclan battles I will be hosting!! Trust me we did one tonight and everyone had lots of fun!! It was a good time for eveyone b/c we could joke around and relax but still get some good practice in!

[TRIBE_Horda]

k where i can dl the warzone mod
i want give it a try

[Narauko]

http://www.geocities.com/majorplaying

 

[Narauko]

I agree with Fridge but who says we have to stick to LMS, changing the game type is what Ghost Recon was made on, different game types a bit of variation from the old LMS.

[BTs_Ch A oS]

I don't camp and I hate even getting pinned down under heavy fire because I might have to lay on my stomach and get my BTs uniform dirty, but neither I nor anyone can ban campers or camping.  
Camping is a part of the game even tho i don't like it.   I also favor LMS over Warzone mod.  And I think its true that campers will camp no matter what gametype.  
So I don't think the Warzone mod will lessen camping.  I believe it actually encourages camping the CAMPZONE, but I'm still testing it.  The only way to stop camping is for each person not to camp of their own free will.  But if people (fridge) want to camp they have every right!  CAMP ON TAMPONS!
 

[Typhy]

 I nor anyone can ban campers or camping.?

Then count me in for "no one".

Whenever I get killed multiple times by someone who's camping, unless they're defense in a Siege game, I leave the game and go block them. Whenever I see someone who's on my blocklist host a game, I get their IP and ban them on my Firewall.

As a result of this, my block list is 62 people on it, and is rapidly growing. Every few months, I clear it out, and give people second chances, aside from those people like Mug who've earned a perminate spot there.

[BTs_Ch A oS]

LOL!

I stand corrected Typhy!  Individuals may ban campers.  I meant no one can ban campers from cbing in the Damn Battle League even if I/they wanted to.  So it comes down to implementing anti-camping tactics to more effectively punish the floormats with extreme prejudice.  I wish GhR allowed players to squash the laydown campers' heads under our feet like melons after we stand over/behind them taking screenshots of their "skill" for 20 seconds.

[TRIBE_Horda]

ty Narauko

[Saberian 3000]

Well, Typhy, that is one reason why u are so popular heh.  Yeah, anyway as for camping it is part of the game.  i do agree with not changing the game though.  Although if warzone was to be used with no respawns then i dont see a problem with that either.  All it seems to do it add the extra part of being able to take a base and hold it.  I doubt that everyone is gonna camp the center spot cause u are also very vulnerable as well to attack by doing that.  Most games I have played with Warzone and no respawns the were basically almost no wins by getting the center spot.  the center spot is also very vulnerable for the fact that once it's been taken they know where you are.  so for people camping the center zone, I doubt that unless it is Stronghold.  That is the only map that it seems to work with some affectiveness.  

+MOD+Saberian