AK Topic Ban

[Bondo]

Grifter (or was it Ace), don't delete this, it is necessary. ?Things have gone too far even for General Gossip.

Anyway, AK (and more specifically Rapid) have agreed to stop posting in the forums as their bargin in order not to be suspended. ?As part of that no discussion of AK will be allowed here, the only AK talk that will be allowed is in the Complaint Drop Box and that must be very specific. ?The other AKs will still be permitted to post as long as it isn't inflamatory. ?So from here on out, no AK talk, and I've acted retroactively by locking the recent AK based topics.

[Ace]

I deleted this.

Things have not gone too far. This is the general gossip. Anything goes as long as it isn't something offensive like racism or porn. If people want to talk about AK, that's their right. I unlocked all the topics. Yes, they may be annoying, but that's their right.

[Bondo]

Ace, it has gone to far when there are 10 threads that are there for nothing but to trash AK, it is causing problems for the DAMN community and despite it being a censorship it IS valid, just like yelling fire in a theatre isn't allowed.  People shouldn't be able to endlessly bash others, there are limits, and this one was crossed.

[Geek USA]

ehh, if they wanna trash ak, so be it. half of being a good clan is getting along with everyone else. i think ak's reputation is already ruined..

[Grifter]

Bondo,
First, I think you made a bad bargin.  I don't know what AK did that warrented a suspension, but these forums here are General Gossip... and them agreeing not to post here is a very stupid punishment if you ask me.  So, not only can they not answer any challenges to them, but they also can't defend themselves.  You've turned them into a shadow clan.

Second, while I agree that it's gotten out of hand with the number of threads, I also see many good points.  This forum is a place to talk about things (which should include AK).  Why should you tell us we aren't allowed to anymore?  Have you talked to any of the other moderators here about it?  I'd be more then happy to talk about stuffing them all into a single topic and being a little more critical on the spam.... but as long as it's not just bandwagon bashing, why close it?  And your analogy doesn't hold water.. the shouting Fire in a crowded place is because it endangers lives.  Not just because it's stupid.

Last, and strongest.... I'm very disapointed in you.  Why would you blame me for deleting a post.  You should know by now that it's not my style at all.  If you don't, maybe you should go back and read some more history past your 8 months or so... because you obviously haven't gotten to know me in your 6 month posting spree.  I would always, and I mean ALWAYS rather post something out here in public then delete it.  Ace doesn't like to waste his time, which is his decision.  But you thinking it was me was insulting.

That's three really bad choices in the span of a few hours:

• Changing the AK deal without talking to the other BL moderators.
  
• Deciding that AK is a closed topic in General Gossip
  
• Accusing me of deleting your post.

When did this become the Bondo show?  I missed the vote where the rest of us abdicated our rights and made you King of all the forums.  If you'd like to talk about it, then let's talk about it.  But don't go making decisions that effect everyone without discussing it with the rest of us.  
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[Bondo]

Well, the only reason I thought you would delete the post is because it was an attempt at censorship which you don't like and I thought that would be a case when you might actually delete it.  So trust me Grift, I wouldn't have claimed you deleted it if it weren't in one of the few areas you don't tolerate as much.

The reason I think the deal works is that 90% of the problems that have sprung up with AK were based in the forums and no in GR. ?There is also just a point when enough is enough. ?Ok, so people have had their say and they have problems with AK, we've heard them now and don't need to hear more. ?I'm still allowing them to post specific complaints in the BL Complaint DB so it isn't like they are cut off from talking about AK, they just need to have a real point.

And the reason I didn't talk to the other BL admins before changing the punishment is, as the suspension was my choice of punishment in the beginning I asked and the other admins agreed that I could go ahead, but I thought it withing my unilateral power to change the specifics of the deal after getting agreement to punish AK.

Finally, AK can still read the forums and discuss essential matters with other clans through PM, e-mail, or GR to continue on, they just don't need to be in the forums trying to defend themselves against an onslaught from all sides.  It was their choice to have this punishment rather than suspension, and since it would likely solve the problem just as well, I took the agreement.  I'm sorry if it ruffled a few feathers.

[+-KoS-+ Gorf]

umm, ok. ? First off I think that the BL Admins need to be good boys to each other, and see eye to eye on a few things.

AK is a clan that tries to manipulate the score, and little details in games, to either drive off the other clan with an insane amount of arguing and insults and then say "u left so we won 10-0 it says in the rules!", OR, they plain old won't green up because they want to talk for a while about the lag and bitch about it until the clan re-does the match, ETC. ETC. ETC.

This isn't the way the BL should be. ?It isn't balanced. ?YOU AND ME BOTH KNOW, that KoS is better than AK, so why aren't they higher?? ?exactly. ?this is the problem here. ?Well, one of 2 problems.

The other problem is Rapid. ?I am beginning to think more and more that it is not AK that is the problem, but the leader of AK. ?Doesn't anyone see this but me? He is a horrible influence on the rest of his members and encourages them to act the way he does and play along with his manipulation. ?I don't think we have the right to kick AK from anything. ?BUT, i do think that rapid should be removed from AK. ?Ovbiously the BL can't really kick him out of AK (well, i dunno maybe they can), but this is more a message to all AK members. ?Your leader is B A D. ?He makes you look like shit. ?Please get rid of him.

Thanx,
? ? ? ? ? ? ?~Gorfage

[Grifter]

Well, the only reason I thought you would delete the post is because it was an attempt at censorship which you don't like and I thought that would be a case when you might actually delete it. ?So trust me Grift, I wouldn't have claimed you deleted it if it weren't in one of the few areas you don't tolerate as much.

Bondo, tell me how that makes much sense at all.  If I don't tolorate censorship well, why would I then censor your post?  Like I said, you should know that I would much rather reason things out with someone then just shut them up.  

Also, Since the BL admins agreed to a punishment, changing the agreement without talking to them isn't cool.... your idea or not.

As for banning anyone else from talking about AK here... no.  I don't think you get to make that decision on your own either.  You should have talked to Ace, Wrathy and myself first.  I don't care if Rapid (because he's the problem, not AK) stays out of here or not.  In General Gossip, people have the right to voice their opinions.  We are talking about someone spaming the forums with "RAPID IS GAY" or that kind of BS, you are talking about banning the subject.... that doesn't wash with me.

Has it gotten out of hand..... YES.  Is that the way to solve it... NO.  

I'd like to know, what gave you the idea of doing it without talking to us?

[:V:*Beast]

This isn't the way the BL should be. ?It isn't balanced. ?YOU AND ME BOTH KNOW, that KoS is better than AK, so why aren't they higher?? ?

of course Gorf, KOS is better...
look at the RS ladder, the killratio of KOS is the only one above 2...
2.02

[theN00b]

Critisism about our clan has given the some of the members of ?K the initiative to make reforms.

[Grifter]

Critisism about our clan has given the some of the members of ?K the initiative to make reforms.

Good Show! ?That is the whole point of public forums come full circle Cossak. ?

I've always gotten along with all the AK's I've played RS with but two... and from what I read here and on GR... I may have been wrong about Typhy (don't know yet). ?But I hope you guys take care of business and don't let one mouth ruin an otherwise decent clan.

For those of you wondering why I say this... it's because some of the AK's seem to be standing up for less bickering and more CB's (and yes, against all the good clans). ?I could be wrong... but that's the impression I get. ?So good at you!

[Bondo]

Bondo, tell me how that makes much sense at all. ?If I don't tolorate censorship well, why would I then censor your post? ?Like I said, you should know that I would much rather reason things out with someone then just shut them up. ?

Because it may be a lesser of two evils approach.  Do a little censorship to prevent larger censorship.

I'd like to know, what gave you the idea of doing it without talking to us?
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What gave me the idea is that Rapid and Cow (the two I talked to who proposed the comprimise) are right when they say that there is no way AK can be forgiven and thus make changes if all anyone sees is people saying how bad AK is.  The only way to give AK the chance to be respectable again is to eliminate all the bashing that takes place.  We shouldn't let mob rule dictate how the BL is run and even if it means censoring a bit in the GG it is necessary to prevent it from happening.

[Grifter]

What gave me the idea is that Rapid and Cow (the two I talked to who proposed the comprimise) are right when they say that there is no way AK can be forgiven and thus make changes if all anyone sees is people saying how bad AK is. ?The only way to give AK the chance to be respectable again is to eliminate all the bashing that takes place. ?We shouldn't let mob rule dictate how the BL is run and even if it means censoring a bit in the GG it is necessary to prevent it from happening.

That does not tell me at all why you chose to dictate that instead of talking to the rest of us. ?I don't care if your reason was good or bad.... doing it without talking to the three of us is wrong.

Also, I don't happen to agree with that.  Rapid will not be able to earn any respect while he dodges issues.  And if it's a battle league thing, keep it in the battle league forum.... not General Gossip...  if Rapid continues to do stupid things on GR or anywhere else... and someone wants to talk about them, why should we stop them?  

Being fair is listening to people like Cow, who come in and speak their opinions.  Things that he and Cossak posted are the quickest way for AK to get some respect...

As for the deal you cut them.... they must be laughing about it.  All Rapid wanted was for people to shut up and not question him... and you want to give that to him.   Whatever they did, if it warented a suspension (which I'm assuming it did, since you guys gave them one).... becomes a joke... they aren't allowed to post in the forums... and nobody in the forums is allowed to post about them....  sorry... doesn't sound like justice to me.  Not if they deserved the suspension in the first place.

We've got mine and Ace's opinions here.... all we need is Wraith's and we'll pretty much know where the moderators stand.

[AK_Kilzo]

Grifter, (and all others who take his position)...
First and foremost I want you all to know that as an active member in ?K, I can assure you that we are taking the initiative to rebuild the reputation of our clan. I believe most of the hatred comes from the Veteran players, which then runs downhill to all the new noobs who will try to get on your goodside by bashing us as well.

If all this continues to grow and escalate, which it is doing, it will only be detrimental to the game and to the community. Ive listened to all of your arguments (not just yours grif), and complaints about Rapid and ?K, and to be honest, it seems as though Rapid only reacts when he is challenged or bashed on, which in my opinion is completely fair, and is human nature to defend oneself.

We are a good clan with good players, is that so hard to accept? All this gossip about ?K has made us the most popular clan in GR, and for that I thank you. We have at least 10 people a week (if not more) ask to join. If we were (or if Rapid was), such a bad influence, then I dont think anybody would want to be in the clan.

Is banning the ?K topic a form of censorship? Yes, but so is keeping XXX movies and magazines seperate from the others. Which means, ?We the people have decided that you cannot see this material, for we believe it will corrupt your mind?. It has come to the point where anyone can come in and say anything they want, just to jump on the bandwagon. Hell, even imposters have been allowed to post, that in my eyes is where you need to step in to squash that nonsense (as a moderator). Allowing a ?anything goes? forum can and will lead to nothing but trash, you should know this already. If specific complaints about real subjects arise, then the BL complaint drop box should work just fine.

Everyone deserves the right to defend themselves, that my friend is all we have done. Its really hard when you are getting bashed from all sides with no real solid concrete arguments. To me it?s all been ?he said, she said?, and I for one, am too old to deal with such mindless chitter chatter.

Thank you for hearing me out...Kilzo

[+-KoS-+ Gorf]

Posted by: |AK| Kilzo ? ? ?Posted on: 04/29/02 at 4:47pm
it seems as though Rapid only reacts when he is challenged or bashed on, which in my opinion is completely fair.

? ((Umm, can you say NOT? ?That is a complete and downright LIE, and you know it too. ?Everyone can back me up on that too.  Please people, don't listen to that bullshit. ?please ak, read your posts over before sending them.))



Posted by: |AK| Kilzo ? ? ?Posted on: 04/29/02 at 4:47pm
We are a good clan with good players, is that so hard to accept? All this gossip about ?K has made us the most popular clan in GR, and for that I thank you.
?((<---he's getting what he wants people, not a good thing))

? ?((Is that so hard to accept? YES. u know why? because YOU ARE #1, yet WE and about 10 other clans have beaten you, yet we are not above you. ?ONCE AGAIN PEOPLE, the BL is unfair. ?Guess what all i have to is AK? ?if i wanted to stoop to your level i would have my bro make a clan and then we would CB and he would purposely lose. ?and we'd do that about 50 times until we were #1 by far. ?Then we would disband his clan and he would join mine, and then we could tell everyone WE R #1. ?don't u get it? hah! ?ur plan worked great i admit, but i think it's coming to an end. ?please BL admins, stop this insanity.))

? ((point being everyone: ?every single person (excpet bondo maybe) that has actually CB'ed AK knows Exactly how they work. ?They are manipulators plain and simple (the BL for example), and they do not deserve not only to not be #1, but to not even be able to play the way they do))

BL Admin "TO-DO" list:

1. ?Get rid of Rapid
2. ?Change the BL rules

TY 4 YOUR TIME  

[AK_Kilzo]

Well well well, I see Gorf has a bitter taste in his mouth.
Next time take a spoonful of sugar with your medicine...
I for one have no idea what you are talking about. Make a new clan with my bro and lose over and over? Who did that, and what clan was it? Sounds like your mind works in manipulative ways. Our record speaks for itself, we cb at least 5 or 6 times a week, thats how we get to be on top. How many cbs do you have? True you beat ?K, but we had an imposter in that game (which was our fault for not catching it I admit).

Go look at the list of clans we have battled, some of them multiple times, but thats on their request to try again, not our fault if we beat them repeatedly. Now Gorf, I have played with you, and you are good I admit...and I respect all you have brought to the game, but please show me the same respect and dont jump all over me and call me a liar and such.

Again, this is what I am talking about, Gorf has thrown out accusations to try and further damage the reputation of our clan, yet he has no proof what-so-ever of what he is talking about. Please people, get all your facts straight and ducks in a row before coming in here and yelling fire...(hehe).


p.s. Gorf, Im sure the next CB with our real members will turn out much different....

Peace out...Kilzo

[+-KoS-+ Gorf]

LMAO!! ? NO PROOF? ?ROFL!! r u kidding me?

ok wait wait, calm gorf calm. ?one step at a time..lmao

We sat at the before game start screen (in our cb with ak) for about HALF AN HOUR arguing with your leader because he knew he was going to lose the CB and tried to manipulate EVERYTHING in ANY POSSIBLE LITTLE WAY he could. ?and he kept bringing the same points up over and over again(a VERY bad arguer might i add). ?I never felt more helpless in my life. ?As dest. said: "he's the type of guy you just want to reach through the screen and strangle." ?do you think for one second that it's just a COINCIDENCE? that everyone on GR hates him with a passion? huh? ?lmao!

oh and before about the brother and clan thing, i was making that up to show how the BL is corrupted, had nothin 2 do with you.

oh and yeah, when i get home from school in 4 weeks(when i can play on the fastest ISP in the USA) Force will whoop AK back to hell (where you came from)

dude, the forums are FULL of examples of how AK CHEATS to get through their games. ?yes that is right i said cheats. ?Trying to manipulate the game is cheating, and YES, you guys DO manipulate in CB's, so don't respond with no we don't! ?just look at all the f-ing complaints! ?do u think everyone decided to all get together and say bad things about AK?? ?No. Because the bad things are TRUE. ?Dude, i promise, all you have to do is get rid of the asshole running your clan, and u'll be a-okay.

pleeeeaaase! ?on behalf of GR, please get him out.

~gorfy! ? =)

PS - about the proof i mentioned at the start, i am going to start posting SS's of in-game "discussions" on my website and providing links in my messages if u don't stfu about u guys not cheating etc....  u think AK has been embarrassed? lol.....

[Colin]

LOL...never thought of that gorf...by the way, i'm starting a new clan...jk JKJKJK!!!  

I agree with grift, its not right to take away AK's freedom of speech and their ability to defend themselves.  I don't really care about AK's punishment suspension, those of us who have been playing a while (way back to Deadly Assasins) know that there definately are some clans which should be higher on the BL Ladder.  And about AK's reputation, as far as i'm concerned, they disgraced themselves the first time they C4 Camped me (which happened in the cb with Typhy).

[Ace]

First off, Gorf and Kilzo, please take this debate about CB's elsewhere. Whether it's another thread or in the BL forums doesn't matter much to me. Thanks.


Now to the matter at hand. Bondo, the reason I deleted your post was, well, because you aren't the King of the forums as you would like to believe. Last time I checked there were 4 moderators. In the absence of Mauti ruling on something, anything major such as banning a clan and the discussion of that clan from the forums was a decision to be made by the four of us, not just one. I knew full well that you deciding it on your own would not be accepted by the other moderators, and the punishment you set forth would most likely not fly either.

[Cow]

Just for a note, kilzo and I now deal with anything related to the forums and we will be handling all the talking for AK.  If you guys have anything to say please direct it at us and not rapid, if you want to say something to him then PM him on GR or tell us and we will tell rapid.