Bush's Hypocrisy

[Cossack]

Bah, I didnt mean to type that "e" I swear! I think my finger has a mind of its own, watch it flick you off! I have no control over that!

Anyhow, as explained in the Social Democracy thread before the pussy bondo locked it. Its true sin, that the main argument over nationalized medicine is that technology will digress. Germany is second in medicinal research. They have such pharmasutical companies as phizer and Bayer e.t.c. As Bucc noted in the Social democracy thread, being second can be a world behind first. Not so in this case. We will see how you feel Sin when you get in to a car wreck (that was not your fault) and it costs you 150,000 dollars to live a life a non cripple. I ask you this, where is your 150,000 dollars Sin? Of coarse unlike many people here I beleive in limited Socialized Medicine. This means that the government pays only for the big crucial surgeries such as your hypothetical car wreck surgery sin. Prescirptions, cosmetic surgery, time in the hospital bed for being very sick, all that should be payed by the patient.

Now that Sin has been repaired from his car wreck surgery, he can go around and bash all the little socialists's heads in. Look how happy he is.

[PsYcO aSsAsSiN]

The main argument isn't technology decline, it is quality of care decline. I would rather pay the 150,000USD and get a good damn operation here at the UCLA Medical Center (Best Hospital West of Mississippi) instead of waiting for hours in line behind people with cuts, bruises, flu, and burns while I am dying on a stretcher.

I would also rather use the money that would go to such a horrible system and purchase good insurance for myself. We already have health insurance programs for the poor - medicare, meidcaid, etc...there is no need to waste everyone's time, money, and health care quality.

[Bondo]

I don't think you should insult me for locking the thread...it was caused by the rules not being followed...

Anyways, yes, that is the primary and most important thing about socialized medicine.  You don't become homeless just because of a major medical problem.

[kami]

Assassin, on the note of spelling corrections, it's ?suffrage?.

I think the Swedish system with socialized medicine is great, one of the best things about socialism imo. Everyone should have the right to free health care, rich or poor.

[Cossack]

The thing is, with the Cossack plan, you will not be in front of people with those minor injuries. They are not covered. Of coarse I am sure the Doctor has priorities. Remeber his first job is to save your life, thats above all the other politics inside the medical world. The problem with insurance sin, is that they pay often for the cheapest surgery. Sometimes they wont even pay for a surgery that will keep you alive, just slightly extend the time that you are alive. I think we all can agree on one main thing, Hospital bills here in the states are way too expensive! It is so hard to pay for these accidents. Much of the services for living are way too expenisve. It costs $500/month for a damn daycare! Thats almost the same amount for going to UT!!! This is the reason why people are yelling out, "NATIONALIZE MEDICINE!" Sooner or later you people will understand, nationalize medicine or lower your damn prices so people dont have to cut off an arm and a leg in order for you to sew their arms and legs back on.

[Mr. Lothario]

     Off topic (and I apologize): Bondo, Bucc was indeed attacking your points. He was arguing (in the debate sense of the word) with you. Your requests for behavior were indeed being followed. I have to assume that your locking of the thread on the basis of "not following the rules" was simply because you were encountering stiff opposition and were unable to respond. You are quite the pitiful debater.

[Cossack]

Well, I have a little story for you people about my parents. Both of them are artists, both of them are Russians. That means we do not have much money. My parents could not afford my broken arm and my dad's accident when he had part of his thumb cut off while doing his work (custom furniture maker). Now he works hard, both of them have college degrees, yet they had to declare bankrupcy over those two accidents ($5000 each) Imagine what happens when a poor person has to go through? I know many of you arent poor and coulnt imagine what would happen. Bucc might since he claims his parents were not that well off. Bucc, what do you think would have happened if your folks got in the same situation?

As we all know, the American tax system is highly inefficent. Tax allocation is inefficent. Alot of money is kept from the Treasury's coffer via tax loop holes wich consequently leave the government underfunded. In countries such as Germany you are taxed about 60% of your yearly income, about the same over here. Of coarse we have a much larger military to keep up, but it goes to show you where are money is going. To guns instead of medicine. Also we should decrease funding to other countries ie Israel. You know Israel gets around 40 billion dollars a year of our money? THATS 40 BILLION DOLLARS!!! What the government does, is they loan it out to Israel, but the money after it has been issued is turned into a grant. Israel has not paid us back one penny for all the aid we have given them. You wonder why the American funding system is so inefficent? That is why. I am going to start an Israel bashing thread now.

[Mr. Lothario]

     Honestly, $40 billion is a drop in the bucket. The American budget is upwards of $2 trillion. Yeah, it's kind of annoying, but there are so many other things to get irked at, $40 billion to Israel is not worth the time.

[kami]

$40 could be given to the hospitals instead, I'm sure it would do miracles.

[Mr. Lothario]

     Probably, but we're talking about politicians here. If the money was taken away from Israel, it would go to pork-belly projects to ensure that senators got re-elected, or it would go to kill Iraquis. Goodness knows, improving your own country in real ways is last on the list.

[EUR_Zaitsev]

You know Tasty Im glad you brought that up because if I remember correctly Roe v Wade is the abortion case that says its the womens choices in the first two trimesters of pregnency and I just want to say that Bush and his administration cares so much about that baby being born but doesnt give a damn about that baby when it pops out. Especially the young black ones. What has bush done for welfare? nothing! cheaper medicare? NOTHING so he supports thier birth for what so they can be poor, starving, turn to a life of crime (not that all do but lots do) and wheres BUsh for them now. We pay the women 80 cents to the dollar and its THIERR CHOICE on this one if not anything else.


On The $40m thing it is a drop in the bucket but who would get the drop? It could save some people and Germany has large taxzes bec aause they pay m=edicare, payed pregnency leave, another 3 weeks of payed vacation so thier system is better.

[jn.loudnotes]

The real point is that for the United States to properly care for its own people, it wouldn't even have to have any higher taxes than those already levied.

In a nation where $1 billion is spent every single day for the upkeep of a military that fights almost exclusively in unjustifed wars of aggression, money isn't tight.  We could have decent and cheap healthcare, etc, very easily.