On the Entire Mac Gaming Commuity

[-SW- Baz]

Ok, this Christmas marks my 1.5 year mark around GR. I think for the most part, people are tolerating me, and it's all cool.
Anyways, it has become obvious to everyone with a brain cell on GameRanger that there is one major problem. People who have no lives outside of games. I will not mention anyone specifically, but one must wonder: Why do people take a computer game (made of number, letters and scripts) so seriously? Games are for recreation, we all know that, but  recreation is not life. Look at all that has been the effect of online, mac only, rainbow six series only gaming. more than 100,000 posts on this webiste alone. Hundreds of clans. Thousands of games played each week. This is excellence in the terms of gaming, and the mac community, but look at this from this side: what are we all REALLY accomplishing here? Trying to be at the top of a list on this site, which a total of .0000001 PERCENT of the world's population will ever know about. There is no money involved (except to Kevill), and really no real value in life. But still more than 100,000 members of GR play. Most of them are in the R6 series community, but think of the time! I think spending more than 2 hours daily on GR is too much (yea, i've exceded this too sometimes, and regretted it).
Look at this simple story:
3 people from GR are good friends today. Next year they all go off to college/job/etc, and don't to each other at all basically. 30 years later, when they are 40-50 years, they somehow meet up with each other. They ask each other "sup?" (the worldwide most popluar question). The first person says, "I joined the Army, became a famous general, and had a family and a great, adventerous life, defending my country and meeting great friends." The second says, "I became a businessman, never married, but lead a succesful life, and I am happy." The third says, "I went to college, then got a job, but arranged my life so that i still played 2 hours on GR most days, married, and I am the best player on GR."
Who is really happy?
If you think along the lives of the first two, you are correct. If you turn out to be like the third, what have you accomplished? Nothing.
Life is objectivist (basically, there are right and wrong answers), if you say all three, then you are subjectivist-wrong- and should seriously consider your life.
I hope I've made some people realize what this is all about, all the arguments, dirty sites, name calling-which we will all forget about in 5 years, and no one on the planet will really care. GameRanger, Rainbow Six, Ghost Recon, and all games are for recreation. They are NOT reality. (ever seen the matrix?) Just think about it before replying here.
I will end here, having thought my brain out today, along with 5 finals in school. Merry Christmas everyone, and enjoy your holidays!
Barry- "Baz"

[Brain]

i really dont take online gaming all that seriously any more, at least compared to how i used to. i use all the stress that i build up in a day to 'power' the competitiveness that i display in game.

[KoS PY.nq.ict]

Baz...most of the online community is composed of nerds/closet nerds. It's expected to find them on GR or online 24/7. Since a social life is nonexistent for these folks...they get their daily dose from the Internet. I have to agree its unhealthy. People should get out more. Play some sports or do some sort of physical activity. Go out with friends and enjoy yourself. My room mate last year was a disaster. Some of you may remember him. Inouisan Kai or some shit was his name on GR. I have to tell you guys. He was the nastiest person I've ever met. He never bathed or washed his clothing. He left piles of his mess on the floor. We'd always make jokes like "you better watch out at night...that pile might start pulsating and suck you in". We'd always make jokes about dead bodies being under there since the stench was quite unbearable. I was a fool to have stayed as his room mate but I thought maybe I could help him out of this mess. All he wanted to do was sit on his comp, fondling himself, and going into anime lesbian chatrooms pretending to be a woman.  

FOR THOSE WHO ARE STUCK ON THEIR COMPUTERS ALL DAY AND NIGHT! GET OUT!! GO DO SOMETHING! MAKE SOMETHING OF YOURSELF!!!

[Agent Wallabie]

   Most are probly 14-, so them even reading all of that is unlikely.

[kami]

It is indeed sad, it happens all over the place now a days, I remember a post on the TacticalOps forums once with a link to this guys suicide note... he had commited suicide because he didn't have any real life friends anymore and the internet had become his whole life. Anyone who can relate to that should seek professional help, there is help for you as well. I'd hate to have to see another note like that again..
And Baz, 2 hours by the computer every day isn't all that much you know, heh.

PY, they aren't all that common (I think), I've never heard of a sader human being than the guy you just described.

Well cheers everyone, hope you don't get stuck on the comp too much this christmas! Have a fun and merry christmas!

[Jeb]

christ,
i'm a normal person with a good social life (closet nerd). Alot of college students on Gr are on out of boredom. Especialy me since i go to classes for 4 hours and don't work combine that with friends who work, and that leaves me alot of time to kill durring the week

[tasty]

i think baz wrote that to justify his status as an ?berlame n00b. baz, just bc you suck at online games doesnt mean you have to take your n00bness out on the rest of us?

but seriously

I definetely qualify as a closet nerd, i spend a lot of time on GR/computer, but as jeb said i am a bored college student with too much time on my hands and i usually only go on when my friends arent available or im procrastinating studying. But I contend the point that people aren't accomplishing anything here? because thats not why people go on gameranger. Yeah, some people get all worked up about games but maybe thats just what they need to do to make it fun? whatever floats your boat. I just see gameranger as a community of very lazy people that enjoy playing games and interacting with one another. Although it is good to be involved in your community, I dont really see how gameranger interferes with that? at least its better than watching tv  . Gameranger just replaces other social outlets that people have. 50 years ago 70% of Americans got together and played cards in groups; I think that gameranger represents a technologically infused version of that same phenomenon.

Also baz, you incorrectly used the terms "objective" and "subjective". Objectivism is just one philosophy, and not one thats espoused by me. You can't say that there are right and wrong answers that will make people happy, for that is just absurd. Everything in life depends on circumstances and is therefore subjective (not "wrong") and perhaps the thing that should be reconsidered is your ignorant philosophy on life.

[Mattster]

I agree with tasty. In philosophy there is no "right" or "wrong" answer. People see things for a different perspective everywhere. They are all opinions. People believe whatever make  them happy. People may be happy staying on their comp 4-5 hourse although i am not. I am a closet nerd. But i am a 13 year old with to much time on his hands with friends that have sports and just waiting for basketball to start. baz your philosophy is an opinion.

Later,
Mattster

[-SW- Baz]

tasty, for one, are you actually undermining me because i suck at online gaming? if had the money to spend on cable and a good mac, then i, and anyone else would be good. winning in online games depends more on money/technology than actually skills of moving a mouse faster.

also, my views about objectivity/subjectivity WERE correct. it appears you haven't taken any philosophy courses (at least with a 1 brain-celled teacher). Subjectivity includes views on things such as "the answer is what you think about it, for example, saying "happiness to me is whatever i make of it." that is just like saying "that door right there is whatever i make of it." that is what makes subjectivity wrong. there are right and wrong answers, not just what you think. Objetivity looks at things in a REALISTIC point of view: "happiness is living a moral, virtuous life and being proud of it." and "that door is really a door, no matter if i think it's a car or a door, it's a DOOR."

my last example is from the Matrix. that whole movie points out that subjectivity is wrong by using the story line "the world is not what WE THINK IT IS (subjective!). the world is ACTUALLY the human slaves owned by AI. if you disagree with me about that movie, i assure you, call up the writer and ASK him.

the problem nowadays is that many college professors and the media think subjectivity is right, ex- "go and have sex with whoever you want, if YOU like it, then it is GOOD for you. (they don't say anything about losing the virtue of chastity, and ruining your life if you get AIDS or a baby...)
subjectivity has been around since the 1800s and you MUST have a correct view on life, which is objectivity. I don't say that because I think so, but ANY realistic person does.

[tasty]

Baz, several things
1. The first part was a joke. Notice how it said "just kidding" after it?

2. I have taken philosophy courses. Notice that is plural, as I have taken more than one. Your knowledge of philosophy indicates that either you have very little knowledge of it or you have received a very biased education in it. Ever heard of a little concept called existentialism? Its a philosophy in which I firmly believe, and also a philosophy that relies on a subjective view of life. This has nothing to do with realism? you can talk all you want about living a moral, virtuous life and being proud of it, but there is no clear definition of morality and virtue. They are intangible and therefore subjective concepts. You then go on to give that inane door example, which completely ignores the concept of epistemology, the foundation on which philosophy is built and what any good intro to philosophy class begins with.

3. Your citing of the Matrix just proves how little you know/understand. You say that the point of the movie is to show weakness in subjectivity, yet the whole premise of the movie goes back to what you said in your previous paragraph (eg, is the door REALLY a door?). If the characters in the movie had looked at things from your "realistic" view, they never would have challenged the Matrix in the first place and would never have realized the truth. Without subjective thought, most philosophy wouldn't exist.

4. In your last paragraph, you make many more stupid statements ("MUST have a correct view on life", "ANY realistic person does"). I really don't know whose philosophy class you got these views from, but they show a serious lack of thought and consideration for the outside world. Maybe in your sheltered little world of "chastity" and "virtue" this seems right, but not everyone believes the same things you do. Morals and values are amorphous concepts, and for all the world to be on the same plane of objective morality is impossible, as it completely ignores the differences in culture/wealth/religion that exist in the world. Perhaps if you considered these things, than you would see that the only view that can be realistic is a subjective one.

[abe]

Wow, i have to say that this is one of the most ridiculous posts ive read on here so far, so ill have to step out of the shadows. woot, tasty, u tell 'em. It looks to me like baz is simply trying to put his own gr-excesses into perspective. but what really bothers me about your post, baz, is that it is arrogant and that you are putting your subjective (i use this word intentionally) view of what is conducive to a good life out there as if it were absolute. what makes the successful army generals life so much more meaningful than that of the gr-nerd?  isnt THAT subjective? how can u say that leading ppl to kill as an officer in the military is "objectivly" a better way to lead your life than playing computer games online for days on end (from a moral standpoint there is also a whole new host of issues i dont want to raise). don't get me wrong, i dont spend days in front of the comp and im not advocating that lifestyle here.  i am just bothered by the fact that baz seems to think he knows (objectivly of course :-p) what is best for everyone else and what the best formula in life is. have you been around for that long baz? in that case you shold tell me what i should do when i graduate next year. hell,  mb baz should be a frikkin guidance counsellor if he knows about whats right in life. oh and no i havent taken any philosiphy courses since high school, but i do know the difference bw objective and subjective.
oh and btw, baz, can u explain to may in what way a game of checkers, basketball, pool is any less of a pointless endevour than a game of ghr online?
baz, if you wanna feel better about yourelf, i suggest you go do some volunteer work and put some of your profound insights on life to use. maybe an AA meeting or homeless shelter will give you something meanngful in life. hell, you should completely remove gr from your scheduale (2 hours extra time a day) and start doing some useful, if it is so useless a waste of time in your opinion.
ive wasted enuff time on you and your dumbass post now , baz, so peace and try to use your time more productivly from now on...lol.

[kos.viper]

Just because you're on 56k doesn't mean you can't be good baz... i used to be a 56k whore myself and was not that bad of a player in my RS days w/ the FEAR group

[|MP|Nomad]

Viper my little Vaginal Fart, you sucked then and you suck now, so plz pfft!!  

[-SW- Baz]

tasty,
1- No, i didn't see "just kidding" after the first paragraph.

2-how can philosophy rely on a subjective way of life, even though subjectivity as been around since the 1800s,but philosophy has been around...before Christ?

3-You just couldn't figure out how i relayed the two philosophies to the Matrix. It was the few revolutionaries (neo and gang) who were the objectivists - they saw what the world REALLY is. (owned by AI machines)
It was the average people that pointed out subjectivism is wrong, because they thought what they SAW was REAL, even though they were slaves. Maybe you should look at it more closely and thoughtfully, bot just what your philosophy teacher told you about life.

3- "Maybe in your sheltered little world of "chastity" and "virtue" this seems right, but not everyone believes the same things you do. Morals and values are amorphous concepts, and for all the world to be on the same plane of objective morality is impossible."
 
    -Are you saying that no one should have correct morals or virtues in life? People who DO have good morals and virtues respected by most humans, the exception being people like you, who don't care. Obviously you don't have a religion either, and i'll bet any money you're a total dick in real life, that's why you hang around GR so often.

As for Abe's comments, i apologize for appearing to know the "best ways to live life" if it appeared that way (even though i don't remember stating it...) you can choose to have/live any morals/virtues, but as i said before, people with good morals and virtues are the mose respected.

Anyway, this post has gone a bit off topic, so let's quit arguing since no one will really change their minds, and have a good Christmas break!  

[tasty]

Although I saw that you wanted to "quit arguing" on this post so you retarded little bit could be the last word, since you decided to take this personal I felt the need to respond.

2-how can philosophy rely on a subjective way of life, even though subjectivity as been around since the 1800s,but philosophy has been around...before Christ?

I didn't say philosophy relies on a subjective way of life, I said it relied on subjective thought. Subjectivity has been around since the 1800s, yes? but before anyone called it that, people were thinking subjectively. Like, thousands of years before that. And just because philsophies are old doesn't make them right? although we respect many of those philsophies for the new ideas they brought into the field, generally as time progresses things are proven wrong.


What you said for your second point was such pure shit, I'm not going to quote it. I will however, respond to it. The first ridiculous thing you did was essentially claim that you had a better grasp on philosophical thought than my philosophy professors. Well, I sincerely doubt that since they have Doctorates and published papers on these topics and sadly, you don't and never will. You have not logically connected objective thought and your theory about the Matrix. If you look at the definition of objectivism - "One of several doctrines holding that all reality is objective and external to the mind and that knowledge is reliably based on observed objects and events," you would realize how flawed your reasoning is. If knowledge is reliably based on observed objects and events, how would the "revolutionaries" ever figure out the guise they were living under? They wouldn't because everything they observed was real to them - and thinking objectively, they would logically base their philosophical assumptions of the world on what they saw. Fortunately, the audience could see that these assumptions based on what humans see were incorrect - essentially showing the flawed methodology of objective thought.

   Are you saying that no one should have correct morals or virtues in life? People who DO have good morals and virtues respected by most humans, the exception being people like you, who don't care. Obviously you don't have a religion either, and i'll bet any money you're a total dick in real life, that's why you hang around GR so often.

I'm not saying that no one should have morals or vitue in life. I'm just saying that there is no set of "correct" morals. Different things are moral to different regions, cultures, religions, philosophies, etc. Who is to decide which are the "correct" set of morals? Although you probably think that whatever morals you hold are correct, I have news for you in that most of the world disagrees with you, regardless of what your moral standards are. There are some universal constants, love, acceptance, etc. that are generally agreed upon by most as good morals.

[tasty]

(sorry had to double post because my post was too big to fit in one)

You said that "you can choose to have/live any morals/virtues, but as i said before, people with good morals and virtues are the mose respected." This statement relies on many ignorant assumptions made by you "Baz", so I thought that I would continue by pointing out some of the other ignorant and incorrect assumptions that you ponitificated in your previous post:

"People who DO have good morals and virtues respected by most humans, the exception being people like you, who don't care. Obviously you don't have a religion either, and i'll bet any money you're a total dick in real life, that's why you hang around GR so often."

I do care about morals and virtue, which is why I have engaged in this argument with you. Why would someone that didn't care put thought or effort into this? What do you know about my religion? I never discussed my religious beliefs in any posts on this thread, and the only time I even used the word religion was to show that religious differences contribute to the moral ambiguity in the world today.  You'll bet any money I'm a dick in real life? all I can say is that I hope I never run into someone as ignorant and annoying as you in real life, because people like you make the world a real drag to live in. Maybe you should trade in some of your dogma for some listening/reading skills. And as for the last part, how would you even know that I spend much time on gameranger? I've never talked to you or played a game with you on it as far as I can remember, and most of the time I do spend on gameranger is spent idling while I do other things on my computer. And I don't really think this ever went off topic, since the original reason I posted was to point out how flawed and silly your post was. We have kept to the original intent of my post, which was to point out that the crux of your post rested largely on a number of assumptions on what people on gameranger are like in real life and what the nature of happiness is.

In spite of all the ill-will contained within my post, I'd like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and a happy New Year

[-SW- Baz]

Alright, i can see your point of view on thi subject, my teacher has published on philosophy also...obviously we all have different opinions on the subjects, and every post in this article has been opinions. I can see your point of view, and respect it, the only reason i took your post personally was when you started throwing in adjectives about how dumb i am. Maybe you disagree with my opinions, but my opinions may seem dumb to you, but i'm not. I've chosen to be objective, you've chosen to be subjective, neither of us will convince each other to change our views online like this, that's all we're doing is arguing and wasting time. I got a party to go to, so i'm keeping this short, and no i'm not writing this to "get in the last word", i don't want anything to seem that i have been criticizing YOU, i just criticized your opinion on philosophy, so lets stop arguing, and take the time we would spend here vixiting with our family's and enjoying xmas.
Later all,
baz

[alaric]

I'd like to say "Way to go tasty!" and I wish I had gotten here sooner so I could have backed you up earlier.

1. Everything, EVERYTHING, in this world is open to interpretation though different interpretations though different perspectives. This because no two people see the world exactly the same way. Even with an object like a standard tennis ball, no two people can see it the same way.

2. There is no objective world because there can be no objectivity. How you do you know that what you see is the truth? You can't know because you must percieve it through your senses. Senses that can be easily fooled, much like in the Matrix. However, baz is foolish to think that because you discovered one layer of a deception, you have discovered them all. When it comes down to it, there is NOTHING in this world we can prove. Even Descartes, "I think, therefore, I am" can be called into question under the right circumstances.

3. Morals, more than anything else, are subjective because they are an based entirely on abstract views of right and wrong. And don't go pulling that "God gave us our morals" crap because you can't prove it so it has no place in a philosophical debate. Very few people in this world do things because they believe that it is wrong. More often people believe that they are doing right but their actions to others look like wrongs. I'm sure that some of those terrorists out there believe they are absolutly correct in what they are doing. It just happens that we see them as absolutly wrong.

Anyway, whatever, sorry if that got a little long. I wish bucc was still around to enjoy a debate like this. And don't take this as a personal attack baz, I'm just trying to get you to open your mind a little bit and realize that your view is not the only correct view of the world. There are many correct view, none more right or more wrong than any other.

[3az]

alaric,
i haven't beeen replying because i've been busy with xmas stuff and new years too...
anyway, if you say "everything is what i think it is," you are wrong, because if a 5 year old thinks 4+4 is 9, then he is wrong, because 4+4=8. Therefore everything is NOT what one THINKS it is, it is what it is.
 
btw, how could u find time to post on christmas eve?

[(SiX)Ben]

Here's some food for thought..

Baz says certain people have no lives and spend all their time on gr... The interesting thing about this is Baz wrote about 6 pages on the topic... So he wrote 6 pages (I'm assuming he read over and corrected) meaning he spent an hour or maybe even two... typing... about... other people not having lives? Seems a bit off

Baz, let the people be. I have a life, I know I do. Everyone chooses the lives they want to live, and if they wanna live it on gr, let it be. I think tasty and jeb very sexy, and know they both have lives outside gr where they go out to concerts or a big dorm party and get really drunk... (or in ejo's case, to watch pyro's light a tree on fire in the park) In summary, I think everyone has their own lives, and it's not your place to mock it, no matter how pathetic it seems to you... After all, one man's trash is another man's treasure. They might like their lives as is, so how can you mock it?

Ben