September 11th

[(SiX)Ben]

I know LM, it's just so sad to know the freedoms that were built to protect the people hurt the people, and as I said earlier, I won't let anyone take my freedoms from me. So I'm not saying it's necessary to be changed right away, but mainly pointing out how sad the fact is that those we are conducting war on can hold public meetings that says "Down with America"...

Ben

[KoS PY.nq.ict]

Bondo...

It's not that easy. They all have religious roots in that region and its very important to their beliefs. Most of their history is there and thats why they protect/defend it. Think of this bondo. Tell me what the world would be like right now had we not been nosy. You'd probably say that Sept. 11 would have never happened. That's denying the inevitable. They don't hate us because we mettle. They hate us because we support thier enemy Israel and because we are the "center of sin". Most of the civilians there did not have tv, radio, etc. So when their schools and government taught them to hate us, they had no way of knowing different. As for going into Afghanistan...we had every right. The northern alliance (Anti-Taliban) was begging for our help and it was right of us to do so. We helped them rid Afghanistan of Al-Queda while in the process hunting down those responsible for the 9/11 attacks.

As for the drug war on Columbia....what a hoax.

[Oso]

Bondo,

Your idea has been tried....
   
Think of it like this - WW2, the Nazi's are invading Europe, Japanese are invading the pacific and  France, along with other countries have been invaded by the Germans and England is being pounded like mad.

In the beginning of WW2, The U.S stated that we were to be nutral and let Europe handle the problem. Russia, England, and France are pretty mad that we won't get involved, saying that we will have to fight the Nazi's eventually.

Although, during WW2, we were shipping weapons and ammunition to our allies, it wasn't enough, they needed help.

We thought if we just stayed out of the War, it wouldn't come to us... December 4, 1941, Pearl Harbor, we were bombed relentlessly by the Japanese and we were forced into WW2.

It just goes to show you that if you ignore the problems of the world, the problems we will still come to us.

[Bondo]

Actually, there is a significant difference between WWII and what I was talking about...prior to WWII we were completely isolationist...we didn't give money to help other countries.

Also, in the case of Japan and Germany, they were attacking other countries and invading...in those instances we can help out (through UN).  It is the internal country struggles that we need to stay out of.

Also, I understand that Israel isn't about to leave that area...but can you really deny that if they left, things would get much quieter?

[KoS PY.nq.ict]

No things wouldn't get quieter. They would only turn on each other. But you have to understand that a lot of countries in the Middle East desire our military and our support. The Saudis gladly welcome us because they know we would protect them and help them during a war. The Turkish gladly accept our military because they know that we are a powerful country and would quickly repel any attack. The Israelis enjoy having us and being our ally because we've been with them ever since their country was formed. We depend (lightly) on their economy and they depend heavily on ours. Isolationism is a load of crap. Think about this. When our economy collapsed during the 1920's and 1930's the entire world economy fell too. That was one of the contributors to the start of World War II. Everyone depends heavily on us. Almost all the countries owe us some sort of debt. Its not because we were nosy. It's because they wanted us there.

[Oso]

Actually, there is a significant difference between WWII and what I was talking about...prior to WWII we were completely isolationist

Bondo, you were talking about if we leave things alone, they will get better.

i think you missed my point, i was making a comparison among the 2. WW2 we tried to leave things alone, while people in Europe and in the Pacific were being killed.

Being Isolated from the problems, caused way more problems toward us. So now the U.S feels that we should try to prevent the problems before they get way out of control.

[Mattster]

The Osama Bun Laden thing was a joke, God do u guys have a sense of humor? and Bondo is Osoama not Usama.

[WeaSelFlinK]

... and Bondo it's Osoama not Usama.

Nope, you still didn't get it right there, Matt.

[Bondo]

Mattster, I don't use the moronic American press to get my information.  The arabic news channel Al Jazera (spelled phonetically not correctly) spells it Usama...I think I'll trust them.  Please don't stupidly correct other's spellings when they aren't wrong.

[jeb not logged in]

could we bann mattster from the forum?

[Deadlock]

Bondo is correct, the spelling of his name is Usama. Looking back to the start of this thread, I would agree that anytime someone starts a thread about somthing like 9/11, it should be treated with respect wether you agree with the comments made or not, and no, Mattster's first comment was not respect.

Regards,
Deadlock

[Cossack]

I got a message for Snake. You are mad at WTC. I am mad. I lived in a m9idtown apartment during the attacks. You said you are gonna have a fire and forget attitude about this war??? Remeber that those Iraqi soldiers did not drive the plane into the WTC. Most of them are conscripts!!!! Dont go into Iraq like Germans killing surrenedering soldiers. That is against the Geneva Convention and against what you are fighting for. As for the war with Iraq. I have mixed feelings. I will tell you what I am for first off. I am cocnerned that Sudaam will drop a nuke on NYC and kill my family. I am paranoid as hell. Then again if you do an attack on Iraq it will be considered aggression. You broke the treaty. Especially if the U.N. does not approve. Then we will be hypocrites because we attack them claiming that they broke a UN regulation or decree (whatever the fuck you want to call it). After Iraq who else? Somalia? This is what Hitler did and all the other powers let him go. This is called appeasement except this time Bush is Hitler. Then after Somalia who will it be? Maybe you will attack Russia because we supported Iran. Hell if you do that I will nuke Washington. So where does this war on Terror stop? Does it stop in Iraq, or does it stop in North Korea? Will it stop when America is in ashes from a third World War? The action against Iraq is a good action, but I see no need to go beyond Iraq. Also remeber his Snake. This war wont only be in the Desert. It will be in the Euphrates River Valley. Although your bomber will probablly shit them up there is always guerilla warfare. Another big thing to worry about is this. Sadaam knows he is dead. He may release all the chemical weapons he has. So be careful snake. War is not a thing to be taken lightly, and most of all try to be humane. Dont rape Iraqi women dont shoot surrendering soldiers and dont be a gestapo asshole. Do not be a thug.

[*DAMN Silent Killer]

Yes It has been just over a year now from that tragic day where about 2,000 americans lost there lives from terror

A long time ago hitler was always scared of one thing: Russians

he aculy thought that if the russians would be to capture him, they would put him in a zoo, you know with monkeys and other animals

Well l8ly with this whole saddam thing they have shown some nasty stuff.  Saddam had thosands of tapes of recorded mass executions of his people in his many palaces.  Dont you find that cruel ?? Unusual?? hell if that douchebag walked up to my house ina few years asking for a slice of bread id bring out a piece of bread and than throw in at the accact time that he reaches out to my bread and throw it at my dog than id slam his nuts flat with a slug hammer and cut off his penis and many other things

I say fuck saddam, ossama and all the other doucebags harboring in those fucking 3rd and 4th world shit bag countries

Fuck them

-SK

[Jeb]

As i was sitting in a boring hotel room in bend oregon on september 11th i watched a chilling report on dateline (or some other news show).
They wanted to see how hard it would be to get weapons grade plutonium into the united states.
They traveled by train through at least 10 european countrys with the plutonium in a suitcase without getting checked. then in turkey they shiped it to newyork. The plutonium made it safely into newyork, The container was never checked for it.
they also mentioned that its believed that terrorists have plutonium in the US already. Plus Bin Laden has said that the Nuclear Bomb is the most important weapon he could use against the US.

Makes me wish i lived in canada  

[Cossack]

Executions of his own people is none of our buisness. Hell China executes millions off their own people cruel and unussually. Lets go to war against them. That is not a diplomatic excuse.

[Deadlock]

Cossack, I think that something like that falls most under the "Human Rights" part of things, the executions of people in inhumain ways or reasons is not a reason to attack a country. I don't know what the message that you recieved from Snake is, but I'd have to agree that if you're going against the Iraqi government ( i.e, Sadam ), then the way to go about that is to directly target the Iraqi government. Not go about with invading Iraq and fighting with their army. A full scale invasion of Iraq or anything close to that would be totaly unaceptable, I see the idea that of course to do anything there, you have to get in through the boarders, ( Yes, I do get information from the moronic American press ) getting more bases set up in Iraq does not require anymore than 10,000 soilders. From there, you would be able to run Covert Opperations into the country. At this point though, I think that what the U.S needs to work on is making some friends in that part of the world, our closes allie ( if you can call it that ) over there is Egypt, and they've clearly stated that they will not support a war against Iraq, Bush and the rest of the U.S has to understand that they can't take on the world, and that we don't want the whole middle east against us, make some allies over there before you go in and make more enimeys by attacking Iraq. - Sorry if this is stupid, it's late, I'm tired.

Regards,
Deadlock

[Oso]

I do agree with you, Cossack, on most points...

Sk, it isnt the executions that we will be going to war for. From what i have heard, it is because Saddam is supposely hiding tons of chemical weapons and is unwilling to allow the U.S. to send weapons inspectors to fully inspect his arsenal.

and another thing Sk, i am glad someone like you isnt president, or we would have had a nucular war already

[(SiX)Ben]

I saw that report Jebby!

Anyway, Pyrex, you're half right about the support thing. We support Turkey, that's for sure... When it comes to this though, they are currently neutral... Not supportings us..

Cossack and Snake, I just wanted to point out that Saddam has all his military bases in largely populated areas... If anything goes out of hand, America will take the heat for killing civilians. That, in my mind, is the worst possible way this war can go..

Did anyone see Powell on NBC yesterday morning? He sounded, at first, sure of himself... By the end of the report he was swaying back and forth. More unsure... If I were Suddam I'd be jumping all over that. I'd just allow the military inspectors in and move my stockpiled weapon from base to base as they check, so they won't find my stockpile... Just seems the logical course of action. What do you all predict happenning next?

Ben

[Cossack]

No doubt about it. Iraq is gonna get invaded. That isnt going to change, Bush wants to take out Iraq ( to avenge his dad probablly). But what about a post Iraq? Really the attack on Iraq is fool hardy without any international support. FYI Egypt will support US in attack on Iraq IF the U.N. supports it. If the U.N. does not support it then we are as bad as Iraq is. We will go to war claiming that Iraq broke U.N. law Geneva Convention e.t.c.

[Pyrex not logged in]

Jeb...

LOL...try reading previous posts...I explained that whole thing befor you did.

BTW It was uranium