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Author Topic: Advanced Ranking System - how many clans can it handle?  (Read 4706 times)
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*DAMN Mauti
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« on: October 06, 2006, 05:28:14 pm »

As you probably know in the last seasons we have used the advanced ranking system, a simple 3 - 1 - 0 system. However with the *DBL 2.0 I hope to see more active clans than ever. So I have to ask myself how many active clans can the Advanced system handle?

At all the *DBL 2.0 gonna use a modified ELO System for the Overall ladder, which records cbs nonstop, however for the seasons we will probably also use the Advanced system.

Beside a maximum of cbs vs. the same clan, for how many clans is such a system reasonable?

You probably want to cb each clan at least 4 times. If 10 clans participate you can play 36cbs per season(usually between 60 and 70 days) and ladder.

If there are more clans we could automatically adjust the cb limit vs the same clan so you never play more than say 36cbs.

So if 20 active clans participate you could only play 2 cbs vs the same clan, which is too less as we know from the previous season.

Without limit you could already play 72cbs, but I guess only a few would cb that much and so also the ranking value loses quality and  the clan with the most done cbs can win the ladder, even if other clans are better.

I have thought about 3 solutions:

The first 2 solutions limit the Advanced system to 10 clans. Additionally all clans are ranked by the ELO System.
It's like having 2 divisions: Division A with 10 clans playing by the Advanced system. These 10 clans also play with the rest in the ELO Division. Cbs just need to be submitted once.

Solution 1 selects the actually top 10 ranked clans from the overall ladder.
Solution 2 selects the top 10 ranked clans from the previous season.

PRO: only clans that have already played in a season can be in the advanced ranking system.
CONTRA: we have two rankings, and as a consequence also 2 winners, for the same ladder per season.

Solution 3 takes a different approach:

If more than 10 clans participate, the ELO Ranking will be used, otherwise the Advanced Ranking will be used.

PRO: only one ranking and one winner per ladder.
CONTRA: you never know how many clans, especially new ones, are going to be inactive or break up during the season.

What do you think? Any ideas and suggestions?

bye,

Mauti
ps: the numbers and limits aren't final and are just examples.
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« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2006, 08:26:30 pm »

i guess u can count TRIBE and TRIBU !!!
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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2006, 12:52:26 am »

Just to let you know from experience with the GRPA league, I've learned that when clans fall behind in the standings they tend to give up and not CB anymore.

I think the only way around something like that is to go back to your "sheep betting" league.   

Something that would be very interesting is a "blind bet",  you have the lower ranked clan make the "bet" for the CB by submiting it into the *DBL site.  The bet is hidden so the other clan doesn't know what it is.  When the CB is over the winning clan receives the "bet #" from the other clan.  Although you would need to put limits on the maximum and minimum bet.

-And if a clans "sheep" total goes below "0" they should get back a very small # of points so their season never ends.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2006, 12:59:02 am by PUNiSHER™ » Logged

[a] LYNX
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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2006, 02:01:57 pm »

another reason for (only) lower ranked clans to cb could be to give them points or a point for battling.
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[a] LYNX
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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2006, 03:00:03 pm »

Thanks for your input. Much appreciated!

Yes, you are right Punisher, and we also had the same problem at the *DBL.
Your idea sounds interesting and something like the average of your bet and the hidden bet from your opponent could be used. However I think for all ladders I gonna try it with an modifed ELO system and probably the Advanced System.

One thing that may fight the problems we have experienced is that:

a) with the challenge system clans have to fight, or may receive penalties for next season.
b) all cbs also count for the Overall ladder which runs nonstop during the season and offseason period
c) for each cb players receive experience points

Another possibility would be that each season rank is worth some points for the overall ladder.  At the end of each year there will be a tournament for the best clans of the overall ladder so each point for the overall ladder might count.
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« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2006, 05:57:22 pm »

another reason for (only) lower ranked clans to cb could be to give them points or a point for battling.

I agree with Lynx totally on his post. Award lower clans that at least show up and cb a point. Reward participation.. penalize non participation.
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« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2006, 02:06:59 pm »

So far an inactive penalty is planned for certain ladders.

Each clan will be rewarded with experience points for each cb, and also the cb counts for the overall ladder..

About rewards as requested from Lynx and Macuber:

The Advanced System could be easily changed from the 3-0 setup to a 3-1 setup so also the loser gets 1 point, while the winner wins 3 points.

For an ELO System this won't work, on the other side in an ELO environment you can catch up and take the lead anytime during the season. The only way would be to give out a one time reward if you have passed a certain cb number, e.g. any clan that has played 10cbs will get 50 ELO points. But I don't think that's a good idea - in the past it never made a difference if you get a few points for every 4th cb, or something like that. Nevertheless a possibility, as posted above, would be  that every rank is worth some points for the overall ladder. The season winner gets 200 ELO points for the overall ladder, this goes down until the 10th or 20th ranked clan. So it makes a noticable difference if you are 15th or 20th. I think this would increase the importance of even lower ranks. Last but not least a resistriction could be added that you only receive these points at the end of the season when you have played X cbs.

At all a ranking system shouldn't persuade you to cb. The competition atmosphere and fun should be your main reason. The ranking  should be fair and accurate. A battle league is no power flower playground, where everyone is a winner. It's meant to be a competitive environment - with winners and losers, but everyone should have fun.

Even without super special rewards, that probably don't work I hope to motivate clans to cbs with *DBL 2.0 features like an overall ladder and extensive stats that keep track of your records and shows your clan progression each season.  I hope such features will motivate many clans to cb and stay together for more than just 1 season. May also achieving a higher *DBL class(which depends partly on experience points and partly on won awards) will motivate some clans.

But back to my question I asked in my first post: I think it will be the best to set a clan limit. If it is below 20 clans the Advanced System will be used, otherwise the *DBL ELO System.

Beside that there will be some special game modes, which won't use a regular ranking.

« Last Edit: October 17, 2006, 02:22:23 pm by *DAMN Mauti » Logged

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