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Author Topic: is the glitching rule working?  (Read 3688 times)
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Brutha
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« on: February 11, 2004, 12:16:35 am »

I believe there is a problem with the glitching rule as it is for the moment. Have a look:

14. Cheating is not allowed, which is why it is called cheating. Glitching is also a form of cheating.

And the rule goes on by describing what glitching is and that is not the problem. The problem is that the rule sais nothing about cheating after this, and I do not mean that it does not mention it, rather that a lack of definition troubles me. Therefore we have a rule that quite effectivly gives a clan the oppotunity to get replays of every match and "scan" for a hint of glitch. And this hint is by the rules defined as a cheat, and the cb is lost or tied. But what if the glitch was in no way intended? What if it had no effect on the battle? What if a person is not inwolwed in the fighting, and perhaps far away from the match? And how long does it take to make it a glitch(there is actually a few of us who still can't hit the damn right button )?Oh we can argue all night long, but I don't intend to. I have a suggestion for a definition, and it is up to the admins if they want to include it or not, but I think it would be helpful for the admins as a tool to decide.(and if this definition goes into use, you might just be able to do what you are suposed to do, instead of looking at replays all the time. So....here goes:

The definition of cheating should be: Cheating, when it comes to glitching, should be wiewed as a intentional or unintentional abuse of the glitching problem in ghost recon(as described in the rule 14 in the damn bl rules) to gain an unfair advantage for you and/or your clan that has an influence on the actual events of the game.

This is only a draft and feel free to polish it. But there is one more thing.
   
- don't prone in craters. Although not the complete craters are a glitch you shouldn't prone in craters to prevent misunderstandings.(taken from rule 14.)
 
This line should be rewritten...is this a rule or advice? It is very unclear.
All this is my personal oppinion, so use it or not.....I just wanted to say it out loud...but I hope you will consider it.
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2004, 12:26:36 am »

That's why the rogue spear ladders were always so much fun. The only cheater we had to worry about was Romulus, and we disposed of him quite effectively.

Overjoyed to hear that so far there have been no cheating accusations in Raven Shield.

Edited: no flaming plz. - Civ
« Last Edit: February 11, 2004, 12:30:07 am by z][t-Civic? » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2004, 01:19:29 am »

I agree.  The rule should be as vivid and explicit on this already vague topic to avoid further misunderstandings.  Smiley
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2004, 01:26:57 am »

Therefore we have a rule that quite effectivly gives a clan the oppotunity to get replays of every match and "scan" for a hint of glitch.

not right. it says in the rules that u have to say cuz of what situation u want to have the replay saved:

- 13. The record game feature must be enabled. Furthermore, the after action time has to be set to at least 30 seconds. If any problems occur each clan has the right to ask the host to save the reply. Further if you think someone glitched and it affected the outcome of the game note it in the debrief period and take a screenshot of your accusation to remove all doubt about where the glitch was and when it happened. Then make a new post in the *DAMN BL Forum and make the replay + your screenshot available so the Admins can review the game later and can rule as they see fit. -


But what if the glitch was in no way intended?

from rule 14 of the general game rules:

- If you think you glitched, and gained an advantage (specifically, winning the game), you can immediately nullify the game and replay it without any penalty. -

if an unintetinal glitch happened and the other clan noticed it they?ll probably ask for the replay. if u admit that u did it unintentionally, that game can be replayed immediately without further problems. clans cant simply ask for every replay without explaining the reason and when it occured in the game.


What if it had no effect on the battle? What if a person is not inwolwed in the fighting, and perhaps far away from the match?

that?s where people?s opinions differ...

my opinion is that when u are trying gain an advantage it is cheating. doesnt really matter where or if it affected the battle... for example if u?re glitching somewhere far away from the enemy, u never know where exactly the enemy is though. he could be near u but u just didnt notice him... then he tries to shoot u, doesnt work -> glitch.

if u really were far away from the action and didnt have a direct advantage, then most probably the enemy didnt see u and wont ask for a replay, at least not cuz of THIS action.

i believe the rules are pretty clear about glitching and replays. i guess there?ll be always questions or misunderstandings.


- don't prone in craters. Although not the complete craters are a glitch you shouldn't prone in craters to prevent misunderstandings.(taken from rule 14.)
 
This line should be rewritten...is this a rule or advice? It is very unclear.

i agree with you here... it doesnt say clear if it?s a rule or only an advice.
in my opinion it should be a rule cuz craters are pretty much glitches in general. it can even happen that u glitch in the middle of a crater (tried out). it always depends on the situation and the crater. if u?re for example under fire, are in a crater and lay down for cover... u cant keep laying there and should stand up as fast as possible to prevent glitching, although u could get shot when standing up.


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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2004, 07:01:25 am »

Yeah, I always assumed that a glitch was the issue where someone couldnt be shot but was shooting.  I mean I am not sure that laying in a ditch if you are not shooting is a glitch because that is why the ditches were there.  It's when you take advantage of the ditch by glitching trying to shoot back at the attacker.  that is when the issue applies.  So when you say that there are different opinions there I fully agree Civic.  There is.  I mean what if you had to suddenly step away from the console but you didnt want your guy to get shot, so you go prone in a ditch while you are afk.  I do this all the time to stuff my face for instance while in Multiplayer games.  Is that considered glitching, cause I stepped from the Keyboard and went afk to stuff my face with food?  See that is not glitching, but someone could construe that as a glitch.

A glitch should be defined as the idea of wanting to get an unfair advantage while knowing u are in a glitchy situation.  By that definition it should be considered illigal and cheating.  So the only time that should be an issue with reviewing a round is the determination if the glitch was intended or not.  It should be gone thru in this order:

1.  When was the glitch reported?  Was it reported at the appropriate time?
2.  Was it a glitch?
3.  Would the glitch have affected the game outcome?
4.  Was the glitch intended?
5.  How serious was the glitching that was done?
6.  Does the offender admit to the glitch?
7.  What punishment, if any, should be given?

If this order is followed it should be easy to determine how to deal with a possible glitch.  Although no idea is fullproof when it comes to the infamous glitch.  But this is just a simple plan on how to determine guilt in a "POSSIBLE GLITCH SCENARIO."

I whole-heartidly agree with Brutha on the fact that something should be done with the specifications on either how a glitch should be handled, or the clear specifications on what exactly is considered a glitch.  

:MoD:Saberian





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« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2004, 07:57:15 am »

Here's a suggestion:  Lets not bring up the topic of glitching until we have to deal with a problem involving it, since it was, and for some people probably still is, a very bitter issue.  If you think someone's glitching, then mention it, but if not, lets not bring it up and start getting everyone all roiled up over something nobody did...yet.  

Plus, the issue of glitching probably wont come up this season, as people usually find glitches by accident, which takes a while to happen.  (If memory serves, way back in the days of Season 3, nobody knew of crater glitching in any extreme sense, just that you could do it, but nobody had figured out the very very fine points of it)  All in favor of letting glitching alone?  Put your hand up.

*Raises hand*

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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2004, 10:47:18 am »

Lone.. This issue has been brought up due to a prob that the admins just dealt with. Brutha has some good points that he wants clarified. Brutha just wants to make it more clear so that other clans dont try to use this as a cop out to get wins if it is not an actual rule (just advice). Us admins will talk to mauti and see how he wants to word it to make it more clear.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2004, 10:48:04 am by BTs_Lee.Harvey » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2004, 11:13:21 am »

I agree with you there Lone Wolf, but the problem is that it has come up again. Just not as verbally as previous seasons. and its a pity that the same usage of the replay as previous seasons is back too.

I wrote a looong post on this last season and probably other seasons too....
and it comes to fair play and gentlemanships code. the glithing rule is working as long as its not being missused. it has been in previous seasons and i really hope it wont repeat itself.

If a clan asks for a replay, there better be a solid reason for it. if ya'll have a suspicion about a glit call it right away. replays should never be used as a "way" to win after a loss. it just aint cool or very honerable. sure if some twit glitches and you know and saw it in battle you should report him, but if u are looking through replays as an excuse to win. shame on you.

my two cents

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Brutha
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« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2004, 05:18:26 pm »

Well...what we can establsih now is that there are rules to prevent clans from abusing the replays by demanding a reason for getting the replays...Sure it is a good idea, but what is keeping the clans from saying that they believe they observed a glitch and then say "sorry we were wrong" when the admins are finished with looking at the replay? The thing is that perhaps it is time to perhaps give warning points for that kind of behaviour as well. Perhaps then the admins will be able to do what they are suposed to do with their time, instead of looking at replays every day. And the players will not go around and wonder if their cb will confirmed, or if they have to play it again. I hope(and believe) that you guys want to spend some time in your real life as well(I know I do)......you cant live on forums, chips and coke alone you know Wink Again..this is my opinion, and I have to admit...I am an idealistic naiv little fool(although those of you who have seen me might say nooo...little?)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2004, 05:19:18 pm by :MoD: Brutha » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2004, 05:32:32 pm »

Not a bad idea with warning points... although this issue has come up again this season, it hasnt flared up like it did in previous seasons. i think that most clans that have been around for a long time dont want to win a cheap win after a loss. Most of us arent desperate for a win and preffer to win on the battle field, honerably.





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Brutha
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« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2004, 05:36:01 pm »

yeah...well and good on us....but there are those bastards out there who can really ruin the fun in a game by doing this. For them this is life and death....and not only in game. So trike down while you can and rid the battle league of this problem.
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« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2004, 06:03:38 pm »

Don't worry Admins are having a lively debate about this Wink  Im pretty sure we will be clarifying the 'suggeston or rule' issue on point 14 of the bl rules, and i think the issue of intentional/unintentional/ glichting/ cheating issue is going to have to be clarified..

refering to the :MoD: v .GZ. issue... both clans were in fault for .GZ. not explaiining why they required the replay, and for :MoD: not asking why .GZ. wanted the replay... we won't make that mistake again! That issue has been resolved though and the cb confirmed.

thanks for the input brutha.
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