Alternative Energy Sources

[The Ghost of Bondo]

Wouldn't the pollution be worse if it used a fossil fuel like methane or propane?  With water you get...water.  If you take the hydrogen off of methane and propane you still have cabon and oxygen.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Well, if you burn (aka OXIDATE) hydrogen, you get water.  That's one chemical reaction you are talking about.

But, when you are talking about fuel cells, you aren't talking about a direct combustion reaction.  You are talking about chemical reactions that work kinda like the lead/acid battery in your car, with Ions exchanging electrons, yadda yadda yadda.

In a nutshell, since you don't burn the natural gas, you aren't just combining the hydrogen with oxygen and the carbon with oxygen (giving you the CO and CO2 that you are worried about).  Instead, some of the carbon is deposited as solids (nothing wrong with creating coal, graphite or diamond deposits in your basement    kidding).  Some is given off as CO2, but that's not a big problem either, not like the emissions given off from burning hydrocarbons (it's supposed to be cleaner then burning methane, which is considered about as clean as you can burn), and not in high amounts.

[The Ghost of Bondo]

So there would be some release of CO and CO2 as opposed to just water with the pure hydrogen cell...but it is still a very clean source for the amount of energy obtained?  I suppose that is a reasonable tradeoff.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

So there would be some release of CO and CO2 as opposed to just water with the pure hydrogen cell...but it is still a very clean source for the amount of energy obtained?  I suppose that is a reasonable tradeoff.

I'm glossing over the chemistry a little, but I don't think many people care.  The short answer is yes.  Except drop the CO, one of the systems I was looking at would release CO2 only (and some solids, which don't matter), not CO, which makes a difference.  It would also be in less amounts then if you were just burning the natural gas, like we do today for heat and hot water and cooking.

[kami]

Large amounts of CO2 is bad as well...

[The Ghost of Bondo]

Large amounts of CO2 is bad as well...

True, but this wouldn't be large amounts seemingly, it would certainly be a huge reduction over the present.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Kami, Bondo got it right with we aren't talking about as large of amounts.

And large amounts of O2 in the air isn't great either, just for different reasons.  But if we are seperating water for hydrogen, where's all that oxygen going?

We aren't just burning the hydrogen, so it all isnt' going back to water.

[kami]

Well I'm no expert so don't ask me.

[alaric]

I've heard of conversion kits for cars and lawn mowers such where by making some pretty basic modifications to the engine, you can actually turn it into a hydrogen combustion engine. The drawback is a 30-40 percent reduction in horsepower. Has anyone else heard of such a thing?

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Yep.  But it's more then a 40% reduction in power.

There are kits out there to convert it gasoline powered ICE's (Internal Combustion Engine's) to run on gases (propane, methane, hydrogen).  There has been work done on this since the mid 70's at universities.

The problem is that ICE's function off pressure.  The smaller the molecule, the smaller the pressure difference (and like I posted earlier, with hydrogen, it would lose pressure if it werent for the heat).  ICE's are just not the right type of engine for the lighter gases.  So the smaller the molecule you use, the less power you get.  Which all means that these kits aren't really worth shit.  You are better off finding a kit that lets your ICE run off alcohol (which means it can take more heat).

The fuel cells we've been talking about don't try to use hydrogen or methane as a fuel replacement in a mechanical engine.  They generate it chemically.  They are like a giant D-Cell battery, but instead of using acids (technically, free hydrogen is acting like an acid though if you know chem), it uses hydrogen.  And instead of being a sealed battery, you can keep adding it.