An interesting take on the 9/11 attacks and the aftermath

[Mr. Lothario]

http://slashdot.org/articles/03/01/11/2237249.shtml?tid=149

     The movie is really quite impressive. Especially the latter half of it. What do you think?

[Jeb]

yeah, to bad the site got /.ed really fast.
I could put it on my idisk so you all could see it but i'm gonna go to bed.

The whole movie seemed pretty anti war, however i definatly liked the editing. It brought back many old memorys

[KoS PY.nq.ict]

Unfortunately the site's really slow and I don't have time to view it. I'm off going back to college. I probably won't have a computer for 5 months so if you don't see me that's why.

[|MP|Nomad]

Pyrex, you will have a computer there, your just going to be too busy banging the chicks in yer dorm, thats why you won't be on GR, ADMIT IT!!  ANyway, i would do the same!!  REmember to vid record it for me babe!!

[jn.loudnotes]

If you're having trouble viewing it, go to this site:

http://http.dvlabs.com/gnn/qt/gnn/redux/redux_bb.mov

Right click on the link to save it to your hard drive.

Btw - it's really very moving . . .

1.  Do not go to hell. Please don't go to hell. . .
2.  Now is the time for us to show our beliefs (Blair) followed by nuclear bombs. . .

[alaric]

Thanks for the mirror link loudnotes!

I found the movie to be humorous and very insightful. I agree totally with the message it was trying to convey. It's interesting to think that most of the atrocites commited by the human race over the years were commited in the name of one particular religion or another.

[kami]

I love this movie, it kind of defines my opinions about the whole thing, the whole situation...

[tasty]

The part where Bush says "Islam and the West have always been at war, and we know that God is not neutral between them."

I don't even see how Bush can call himself a Christian after making statements like that. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that if there is a God, a heaven, and a hell, that Bush would go straight to hell for his ridiculous beliefs.  The whole good vs evil thing shows just how ignorant, dogmatic, and self-righteous our president and our government are? by making statements like these, they are showing just how much like the terrorists they are.

uggh i am so disgusted by watching this movie i don't even feel like discussing the rest of it.

[Mr. Lothario]

     I think that that's more or less the point, Tasty. I understand exactly what you mean, though. The first time (shortly after the WTC attack) I heard Dubya say something along the lines of "God is on our side," I was livid. It's utterly outrageous for an American president to claim divine intervention, especially when the root of the entire damn problem is religious in the first place.

     I move that we gather up all fundamentalists of any stripe and shoot them into the sun. I mean, jeez.

[jn.loudnotes]

Seriously.  It's interesting, for those who believe in God, that all this is "allowed" to happen. . .I love the passive "the Lord works in mysterious ways" line. . .

Any God that wasn't growing senile (Afterall, He is somewhat advanced in years) would have long ago stricken down Bush and others, especially those who use His name to justify wrongdoing. And if that god truly cared about human affairs, he might be upset at me for saying this.  But obviously he's not, because I haven't been struck down by lightning.  Furthermore, I enjoy such explanations as "humans were given free will"

No shit, but an all-powerful God can do whatever he wants, and sane wants wouldn't provide a world like this one.  Thus I'll segue into my own religious belief.  That is, that there is certainly some kind of higher order in the universe (a God, if you will) because there is so much we as humans cannot comprehend.  However, that power doesn't care about or have control over our lives, or doesn't control them "morally."  It doesn't demand worship.  I find organized religion insufferable.

Likewise, I hate group displays of faith.  Moments of silence, pledges, etc are awkward and forced.  I like many of the religious traditions of many cultures, and I observe all of the Judeo-Christian holidays.  But I think they are rooted in silly ideas.  

[Mr. Lothario]

     I quite agree, Loud. Personally, I lean towards atheism ('cause there's no evidence), but the possibility of a Creator is not dismissible out of hand ('cause there's no evidence). If anything, I tend to think of Herr Creator as an engineer. That is, It created the universe, but it was more of a project (possibly It was not the sole engineer; certainly things were on a schedule, which may account for the many flaws) than the big ego-trip that is espoused as the reason for Creation in the Christian mythology. It is utterly fantastic to believe that a being who could create a universe would give a tinker's damn about the lives, prayers, pleas, wars, etc. of its inhabitants. Does someone who's just put together an engine sit around with a microscope and punish the organisms living thereon because they are not properly worshipping him? What's more, if someone did, would you not consider him insane?

     At any rate, I've never personally witnessed the Hand of God in action, and I've never heard of any concrete examples thereof. Therefore, there is no reason whatsoever to suppose that God cares what we're doing. Rejoice! We are free beings!

[KoS PY.nq.ict]

That's definitely a powerful movie. I found it hilarious when the whole hick song kicked in. "We cannot let terrorists rule our nation" and then they flash the Bush's. BAM. Really makes you think what we're really trying to do.

[kami]

What engineer would be able to make the whole universe? I'd see it more as an accident with a big explosion (big bang) in that case

[Mr. Lothario]

     Well, an engineer (using, of course, the fruits of the research and labor of many other people) can put together something as complicated as a computer, a nuclear power plant, a space shuttle, etc. Making something big and complicated isn't the problem. It's being able to wrap your mind around it to visualize and plan it in the first place. Since I'm postulating a vastly more intelligent engineer, that requirement can be covered.

[kami]

Well since it all started out as a big bang, everything that was created after that has been the result of coinsidences and just random events.. Perhaps this engineer created it as a firework rocket, where after it explodes, it explodes in a controlled manner and maker nice patterns!

[jn.loudnotes]

I love the Big Bang theory.  But it gives me a headache, or rather, my thinking just stops after a while.  That is, I can postulate infinitely, but eventually I lose complete contact with reality.  

See, try to wrap your mind around what we had BEFORE there was a big bang!  It can't be done!  Heh. . .there are all kinds of ideas, but the actuality, whatever it is, can't be expressed in human terms, because there is no human experience to describe it.  Reminds me a little bit of 1984, how they revised the english language to the point where people wouldn't be able to think anymore!

There are no words to give voice to the concept.  Ain't life grand?

[tasty]

The fact that we do not know what there was before "The Big Bang" is what many religious philosophers have used to prove the existence of God. Also many theologians have equated "The Big Bang" with the creation of the world at the beginning of Genesis and believe that the term of 7 days that the world was created in is not a literal translation of time, at least not in the sense that we tell time today. I'm not saying I necessarily buy either theory, but I do think its interesting to see how the theories of scientists and religious scholars can sometimes fit together.

[kami]

Yeah right, most of the genesis is just funny stories to me, trying to fit that into the real world is just rediculous and really takes a religious zealot to even consider.

[AK_Rap1d]

The funny thing about the "Big Bang", is how they all are scared of who's going to be the one to set it off next...

Now that it's known how it can be done, leave it up to some nut case to be the one... (Saddam in mind)

Now as it unfolds, we can see our world tear each other apart, rather than work together...