Part 2 Season 5: Game modes, competition ladders and more

[c| Splinter]

The thing with warzone is once a team captures the warzone, then the other team has 3 minutes to either wipe out the other team, or recapture the warzone, so you have no choice but to move.

and say, your are the team down, and the other team has the warzone.  Yeah, they might camp, but they will be doing it smack dab in the middle of the map, which is a lot easier to attack then if they were camping in the corner which is what usually happens.  And if they are camping in the corner, than it makes it that easy just to retake the warzone.

and if a team is sitting on top of a hill just watching the warzone, then don't go for the warzone, go for them!

Every clan that we played went in hating the idea of warzone and left liking it better than LMS.

eight, how about c| and BTs have a few practice CBs.  If you still hate it, that's cool, but give it a shot...consider it an informal rematch

[Aramarth]

I thought of something to add.  We are at least talking about changing from pure game modes to promote realism/more fun during play.  Why not continue in this goal?  This is sort of an old thread, but it is a problem that really bugs me. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=4305

(For those who will no doubt make the comment, yes I would use them and I would still win firefights, not because of my gun but because I am a good player who knows how to adapt to the flaws of my weapon.  We are about becoming better here gentlemen, and I would take the m16/m203 against any factory processed OICW user and win more often than not...ok so i don't use the pkm and no one ever should...)

I do not care for argument, you should all know this, but I would like it if I am not ignored.

[Mr. Lothario]

     Aramarth, Warzone is a server-side mod. Only the server needs to have it installed to play it. As for fixing the binocular kits, I'm for it, but I honestly don't think it would make any difference in CBs. Changing those four kits could be done server-side with some caveats or client-side and be perfect. If it was done server-side, only the host would see the correct kits. Everyone else would still see "Gun + Binoculars", but if they took that kit, it would have sensors/claymores in-game. So it works, but it requires explanation. Doing it client-side ensures that everyone sees the same thing, but then you're talking about everybody downloading the mod. It wouldn't be too big a deal, though. Just fixing those four kits would result in a mod that was under 1K to download.

[[OZ] Jedda]

Yeah!

I fully agree. If WZ is so similar to LMS, why do we really need the change?

Yes, there are imperfections in LMS and camping can become a problem, but, these problems are generally with less experienced clans who are still learning the so-called 'art'.

Please don't make CBs anymore complicated than they need be.

As I always say - If it's not broken, don't fix it.

[Jeb]

One thing that i've noticed from playing on PC servers, is how stuck up most of us are. For instance, there is no bitching about spawn killing when unlimited spawns are on. Spawn killing isn't a problem in warzone, because you don't win the game by kill amounts, you win the game by capturing the warzone. I know that games with unlimited spawns are looked down upon by practically everyone here because its "not realistic", but it makes the game much more intense, especially in games where kill totals don't win the game. The same applies to siege games.

If you really want to see what a different game this is, play it with some respawns, or unlimited respawns.  The game shifts from everyone playing LMS style, to a massive battle for the warzone.

[Aramarth]

Good points loth.

Jeb, I can only answer you one way.  If you want a bloodthirsty, heaped bodies, who-clicked-first fragfest, get a different game!  The style of play you suggest is well done and enjoyable in Unreal Tournament 2003, not in a realism-based game.  If I want killing for killing's sake give me UT, but there comes a time for strategy, sneaking around, even a well-laid ambush, and you can't do any of this if your enemy stands back up after you kill him.

[Jeb]

i wonder why respawns were put into GHR. Shit GHR is hardly realistic, if it was the only guns with zoom aside from the sniper rifles would be the SA80, and the OICW/GL.

But the fact remains, if you want to experience a game where only holding the warzone is the objective, then spawns need to be in place.

If no one wants to even think about having a few respawns, fuck warzone, it won't work... but its a novel idea.

[[OZ] Jedda]

Yes.

I agree that warzone does need spawns to have any real change from a simple LMS game, but i think the point that people are trying to make is that the dont want any spawns in CBs.

For that reason, warzone simply wont work.

[Mr. Lothario]

     The other day, a few of us MPs did a CB-style game (no respawns, ten minute rounds) of Warzone with c|. I'm gonna flaunt good rhetorical style and put my summary first: you all need to try it before you knock it. It keeps the good points of LMS CBs, such as the need for caution and for skillful tactical placement of troops. It also changes LMS in one major way: you literally cannot camp. In most maps, ones where the warzone is not in an exceptionally defensible position, the game plays out PRECISELY as a game of LMS, except when it gets down to the last man or two on a side. In LMS at that point, both teams would most likely be camping, moving with extreme caution, trying not to lose a man. In Warzone, each time that situation arose, one team made a dash and tagged the warzone. Bam, now the other team has three minutes before they lose. That serves as a nice little kick in the ass and makes you get up and get a move on, lemme tell you.

     The upshot is, Warzone CBs with zero respawns have the good points of LMS without the bad points. Try it, try it, try it, THEN come and argue about why it won't work. Right now, most of you are just talking out of your asses for lack of knowledge.

[Pyroman]

Could not agree more, Loth!

I was against having warzone as the main ladder, but having participated in a number of mock CBs over the last week, I have totally reversed my opinion.

Warzone with no spawns is both challenging and enjoyable.  The start and middle action of the game plays like LMS, but the endgame is much quicker and more dramatic.  You can not sit back with a man advantage and wait the clock out.... the ONLY ways to win are to eliminate ALL enemies, or hold the base for 3 minutes.

Playing without spawns, and with skilled and organized teams was a completely different experience than my prior experience with Warzone.  Loth's right: try it!   The co||ective will gladly join you for a practice battle.

Count my vote for Warzone, no spawns.

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

I also like the LMS for CB's...... in WZ or HH you would kinda eliminate the snipers b/c like you said .. it is more fast paced and a sniper is not a fast paces weapon. I personaly am a sniper and i feel that players like me would not play as much... but thats just my opinion.

[|A|LtG hooks]

hey im going to give u guys my opinion on this whole issue

ok i would hate to see the LMS ladder go away, i would ruin the

damn league. so in my opion u guys should just keep the main

ladder as LMS and put warzone as the "fun ladder"

hooks

[BTs_eight]

Let me get this straight...

Your taking off the LMS ladder an making warzone the main ladder?

[BTs_STuRM]

I would be sad to see the traditional Damn R6  Ghost Recon Battle League perverted and tainted by a mod.  I favor the pure GhR experience as the basis for the Ladder.  If MP wants to play warzone so much they can host and play it on their servers--I have played warzone with them on their servers and have had fun--but not as much as I have playing CB style.  I would hope that MP and c| can't just steamroll warzone into the Prime Damn BL format.  I believe that Warzone encourages (and actually enforces) camping--first the campers who spawn closest race to the zone and then camp it out defending it--real fun,

                   BTs_ST u RM[SER]

[Mr. Lothario]

     Try CB-style Warzone. Then come here and complain about why it won't work. Until you try it, your opinion is worthless.

[Ssickboy]

Hey guys,

All those opposed to **the adjustment** seem to miss the point, and I haven't heard any sound arguments yet defending the old flawed LMS.

It's not your average Warzone multiple spawn fiasco, once you kill the spawns.  Please stop damning it until you test it within a cb environment (period).  

[BTs_STuRM]

DAMNIT LOTH I HAVE TRIED WARZONE CB STYLE AND I WAS GOING TO EXPLICITLY ADD THAT TO MY PRIOR POST FOR THOSE LIKE YOU WHOSE MANTRA IS "I CAN"T HEAR YOU, YOU DIDNT TRY IT".

I TRIED IT MANY TIMES

I DON'T LIKE IT YET

I WILL TRY IT MORE

DON"T TELL ME I DIDNT TRY THE MOD AND/OR MY OPINION DOESN"T MATTER CONCERNING SAID MOD, PLEASE.

CONVERSELY I COULD POSTULATE THAT MP's OPINION ON THE WARZONE MOD IS WORTHLESS BECAUSE IT IS FROM A CLAN WHO CAN'T WIN THE BL THE STANDARD WAY AND IS ONE OF THE TWO CLANS WHO IS PUSHING SO HARD FOR THIS MOD TO BE THE SOUL OF THE DAMN R6 GhR BATTLE LEAGUE.

AT THIS POINT I STAND BY MY JUDGEMENTS EXPRESSED PREVIOUSLY IN THIS THREAD,



                 BTs_ST u RM[SER]

[BTs_STuRM]

"Adjustment" my ass!!--You are talking about KILLING the Damn R6 Battle League!!

The first and only argument needed to defend LMS CB style is that....


THAT"S THE GAME--IT'S CALLED GHOST RECON--CHECK IT OUT

Until you try it, your opinions are worthless!!

          BTs_ST u RM[SER]

[Mr. Lothario]

     Yes, yes, your outrage is very pretty. I didn't see you say at any point that you had already tried CB-style Warzone. It was therefore a valid assumption that you had not tried it.

     What didn't you like about it?

[|MP|Buccaneer]

CONVERSELY I COULD POSTULATE THAT MP's OPINION ON THE WARZONE MOD IS WORTHLESS BECAUSE IT IS FROM A CLAN WHO CAN'T WIN THE BL THE STANDARD WAY AND IS ONE OF THE TWO CLANS WHO IS PUSHING SO HARD FOR THIS MOD TO BE THE SOUL OF THE DAMN R6 GhR BATTLE LEAGUE.

Hmm, and I'm pretty sure I could postulate that BTs camps more then a troop of boyscouts and that's why they don't like warzone.  I'd probably be just as wrong as your sorry ass with your previous statement though.  

BTs used to bitch openly in this forum about campers, and how they hated them.  But I bring up warzone as a way to make things less about the guys that just set up camp at their base and wait things out, and more about fighting, you don't talk about that.  You make this a clan thing.  It was never a clan thing STURM, there are lots of guys out there that like the warzone and assassination mods.

So stop yelling and screaming and make a good point.  Maybe then it wouldn't be brushed off.  Because right now you are sounding more like a girlscout.