Black Thorn

[6.Dr.??SsSt.qc]

I have a question: Why is the SPEAR BT port considered piracy? I didn't pay anyone for it...and plus it works great...

I just want to state that while we(mac users) wait and wait and wait for RS mods and expansion packs to come out we get inundated with all the mods and stuff that comes out for PC RS players and,frankly, it makes ME sick...why the hell do we always have to wait at minimum one(1) year for the PC mods to be converted?
I have the BT full version and I love it! I couldn't care less who ported it but this time I do know who did the work.

I am fully behind SPEAR for their beutiful work of porting BT.
I see it this way: BT was ported because I guess Ack was sick of waiting for it to come out for Mac that he decided to port the shit himself! The publishers of BT (Red Storm) SHOULD be grateful that the port has been done at NO COST TO THEM! They should embrace the fact that we(Mac RS players) like their game so much that we are willing to do the heavy work FOR OUR OWN PLEASURE AND NOT FOR PROFIT!

They have to face the fact that the Mac gaming community is sick of being in the background all the time...they should make a deal with Ack about distributing his port of BT in Red Storm/Ubi wrapping...I'm sure Ack would be completely overjoyed if they would ask him...and I'm sure that he would not ask for money...

This illegal porting business just goes to show you that there are enough interested Mac players out there to warrant an official port for all RS associated stuff...but that we are SICK AND TIRED of waiting 1-2 years for it to come out...

One other thing...What's with Evill banning people for use of BT...? (don't say cause he's a prick...I know that...)
http://home.attbi.com/~electronicjo/bs.html <--thanks ejo

God someone please prog another GR-type platform for us...where the fuck is gamescouter? Dead?

later y'all

[franx]

Dr., are you talking about the demo port or some full BT port I'm not aware of?

[6.Dr.??SsSt.qc]

are people afraid to reply to my post, or is the forum this dead these days? What's going on someone reply already...franx here don't have a clue...

[Toby]

"Why is the SPEAR BT port considered piracy? I didn't pay anyone for it..."

It's BECAUSE you didn't pay anyone for it: The original developer, for example...

Your email, I'm afraid,  is stunningly misguided.

Not only are you supporting piracy - something which is definitely illegal and which has never and will never help the Mac gaming community - but you actually have the gall to claim that a company should be thankful that its games are being illegally ported - just because it's at no cost to them??? That they should somehow embrace this?

Showing people that Black Thorn can be ported to the mac, and pointing out how so they can buy the PC version and port it themselves is one thing, but actually freely distributing something which is for sale is something completely different. And highly illegal. This is the line that Ack has crossed...

Companies are in the game business for one thing - money. And denying them their dollars is hardly going to endear them to you.  Now, you may say - "But BT isn't ported for the Mac" Fine - Are you likely to buy Black Thorn in the event that it is published for the Mac now that you have your illegal copy? - is anyone who has downloaded this illegal port likely to buy it? Highly doubtful.

No sales potential = no game. And whoever ported this has just shot the Mac game community in the foot.

What we have here is a strange two-part cry for help.
On the one hand, you make the (completely) understandable and often-heard Mac Gamer lament that we never get any games, we're always lagging behind, etc etc. This is completely justifiable. Of course, there are many other ways to deal with this other than piracy - have you written to Ubi? Have you posted on their forums, have you emailed Mac developers or even Apple about their lacklustre game support?  

But don't try and dress up piracy as part of this. It isn't.
Get up to whatever pirating you want  - but don't try and justify it to the rest of us.

And as for it being "heavy work," my home-grown port of BT, for which I bought a PC copy and then converted it, took perhaps half an hour. Not exactly heavy. But then I don't have to pay for distribution. I don't have to license the software. I don't have to worry about technical support or updates - and I don't have to pay any staff. But, oddly enough, someone else does...

And Evill has to ban people for using pirated software - he depends on the support of developers to build Gameranger into their games - if they see him turning a blind eye to piracy, much as you are, they're going to pull the plug. End of story.

I, too, would like to see more games for the Mac - I would like to see Ubi support the mac - I definitely want to see the next installment of Rainbow Six on the Mac (and since it's apparently using the Unreal 2 engine, we have a chance) but this is NOT the way to go about it.

[6.Dr.??SsSt.qc]

Toby,

I wrote that post in a pissed off mood and now that I re-read what I wrote it is a bit stupid...but I am a bit ticked that it takes everything ages to come out for the Mac. I mean if it only took you half an hour to port the damn thing then why does it take a year to come out for Mac in official clothing? Wtf is up with that? I am not a pirate and all the games I have are store bought copies but, when I go over to my friends house and he has a CAVALCADE of mods for his PC RS and that yes I could have them too but I simply don't, it ticks me off.

I might be completely illiteterate in the world of programming and the like but I sure as hell love my Mac. I pay for all my software and I will continue to pay for it, and, to answer your question, I would buy the BT mod if it was offered for Mac. In the meantime I do not see the logic of buying the PC version and converting for myself, by myself...I am retarded in the programming dept(as mentioned above) and that is why I support Ack. Because of him I have seen how cool RS map mods can get...and because of him I have had many a good game on BT. The regular maps get way boring after a year's worth of playing them.

Thanks for your post Toby, and I hope you understand my view...

BTW, my best buddy works for Ubisoft in Montreal, where I think they are making R6 3 . I have talked to him on occasion and he always comes back with the same answer when I ask him about this subject, they are not sure the mac gaming community is stable enough. wtf is that all about? RS for Mac won game of the year...anyways...I don't want to keep you any longer,

Laters...

[Toby]

Hey, I understand exactly what you're saying...

Now can we all start leaning on your friend at Ubi? You know, maybe some death threats, blackmail or a fake kidnapping attempt or something - maybe that'll get some sort of response out of Ubi - they're not even answering any of the emails I send about porting stuff to the Mac...



Toby

[jn.loudnotes]

I agree for the most part franx but there is one question I still have.  This may not apply to BT in particular.

What if the game is never ported?  Say the original developer never releases Mac rights, only PC.  At what point would it be ok to convert the game, if there is explicitly no chance of a major company ever doing it?  If the only way I could play a game is on my Mac, how am I supposed to be able to get it if no one ports it?  most importantly, why would a company, if it is as easy to convert a game as you say it is, NOT port a game?  If it really took you half an hour, how come Red Storm doesn't release all its games for Mac?  Or why not encourage Mac users to do the porting for them, and then sell the finished product.  This would require no work and would make them money!

That would seem the logical course for the game developers, so I do not understand why they idly do nothing until someone is forced to pirate.

[franx]

Just FYI guys, I bought the PC version of Black Thorn (so I've got a clean conscience!), and with Toby's tips, I converted it myself to Mac.  

It's not hard, just tedious.  In fact, it was only my second mod conversion.  Took me about 10 hours of work spread over three days with Tex-Edit Plus.

Works pretty well, too.  Anyone who wants the directions that I got from Toby, just drop me a note.

[jn.loudnotes]

Yeah I'd be interested to see how its done.  Please email me at notestriker@capitolaw.com

[franx]

OK, here's my experience, which was made a lot easier because of great counsel from Toby in this forum:

A. ?YOU WILL NEED:

1. ?Access to a PC with a CD burner, or Virtual PC on your Mac. ?I don't own VPC, so I used a PC at my office. ?I'll use that as my example. ?Obviously, if you have VPC, you can do the whole thing on your Mac.

2. ?Simpletext or Tex-Edit Plus (http://216.25.53.29/trans-tex/index.html) for eliminating the control characters in each file. ?I strongly recommend Tex-Edit Plus. ?

3. ?SoundApp (http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~franke/SoundApp/) or a ?similar program to convert the PC .wav-format sound files to Mac system sound files. ?I own Cleaner 5, so I used that.


B. ?PRELIMINARIES

1. ?Buy the PC version of Black Thorn.

2. ?On your PC, create a Black Thorn folder. ?Install PC Black Thorn into that folder.

3. ?Burn that BT folder onto a CD.

4. ?Transfer that BT folder via the CD to your Mac hard drive.

5. ?Open the new Black Thorn folder on your Mac. At this point, you'll see a number of stray PC files (like PATTON.KMP, BOUNDKEY.TXT, ROMMEL.LOG, etc.) and three more folders: DATA, MODS and REG. ?Throw out everything except the MODS folder. ?Repeat: ?You only need the MODS folder.
?

C. ?THE CONVERSION

1. ?You'll need to use Tex-Edit Plus to remove the control characters (i.e., the little rectangles at the beginning of each line of code) in about 2,000 of the program's files. ?Open Tex-Edit, go to "Special" in the menu bar, then go to "modify document." ?Click "modify" to strip the control characters, then save the file. ?Sorry, I don't know of any applescript that will automate this. ?The work isn't difficult, but it's time-consuming and repetitive.

2. ?Use Tex-Edit Plus to convert all items in the KIT folder -- EXCEPT any .cht files. ?Also convert the TEXT folder and all folders within it; all MISSION folder files; all ACTOR folder files; and if you like HQ's plans, convert the PLAN folder as well.

3. ?In the MAP folder, you ONLY convert the .ass and .stp files, and also the roomlist file (if there is one). ?Don't change the other files in any way. ?

4. ?In the TEXTURE folder, convert ONLY the rommel.cxp file.

5. ?In the SOUND folder, use SoundApp to convert all .wav files to Mac system sound files. ?Then eliminate the .wav extension from the file name. ?Use Tex-Edit Plus to convert the soundvol file (if there is one).

6. ?Finally, stick a "camp0000" file in your SAVE folder. ?This should eliminate any problems in progressing from one mission to the next. ?Email me and I'll send you this file, which I originally got from Toby.


D. CAVEATS

1. ?A few of the graphical .rsb files have filenames that are too long for the MAC OS. ?So every once in awhile -- not often enough to be significant, but occasionally -- you'll run across a graphical glitch.

2. ?I've only played BT in terrorist hunt mode so far, but it works fine. ?I've also seen it played on GameRanger, so others are making it work, as well.

3. ?Question for the ages: ?If some amateur like me can convert this "mother" in a few days as only my second mod experiment, why the heck won't Redstorm release it for the Mac???


?

[Toby]

That's the best write-up of how to do a conversion I've read yet. Nicely done! This post should be a standard reference for anyone who wants to convert PC Mods...

Toby

[*NADS Capt. Anarchy]

I'm just curious... why doesn't someone who's done the conversion:

1) Contack ubi soft or whoever has the mac rights and offer them the conversion for free. Hell, you could even skip ubi and go straight to the PC company and say
2) "Hey, i ported this to mac. Wanna post it for free/minmal charge download?" That way they skip the cost of actually making/doing something. Maybe have a $5-$10 fee. The right price for a official mod like Black Thorn.
3) We all play Black Thorn and be happy.

[Toby]

Well, I have tried to contact Ubi Soft in the past, although not about this excat subject, no less then four times actually, and have NEVER received a single response.

Nada.

Zip.

So I can only guess their response to this offer would be exactly the same deafening silence.  

Maybe we should start something in the Black Thorn forum at http://www.redstorm.com/blackthorn/?

Toby

[*NADS Capt. Anarchy]

well.. checking through the ubi/red storm page, i found this:

http://www.redstorm.com/corporate/contact.php

has contacts for specific people, specific departments, all that good stuff. I'm not sure who/what ?would be the contact, but "Marcus Beer" is the public relations manager for red storm. Or maybe "Elizabeth Loverso", director of product development. They've got emails and phone numbers(!) for all of these people. I'd do it, but i dont got any clue how to do the port.

oh yea, i just started something on th black thorn fourms. Seemed like a good idea. Posted uner the name "spazmotik". it wouldn't accept "Capt. Anarchy" =\

[*NADS Capt. Anarchy]

Well, i tried posting a couple things on the black thorn fourm, but wither they diddn't post or they were deleted, because i don't see 'em there anymore. mean uber-moderators!

[Bronto]

will the BT mod be availiable for download when you're finished bringing it over to mac, or is this an every man for themselves type of thing?

[Toby]

Um - if you mean whether I'm going to post it, no. But if you buy the commercial product then Franx (whose explanation above is great) or I can certainly help you through the necessary steps on how to convert it for yourself.

Toby

[franx]

Alas, oh my brothers, i emailed the folks at Redstorm and Uber.soft weeks ago, right after I posted my "how-to" about modding Black Thorn (see above).  In fact, I think I blind-copied Toby and a couple of other comrades when I did it.  I offered to just hand the mod over to them for free if they'd make it available to others.

Nothing but the silence of the lambs since then.

I don't think they care a rat's fanny about the Mac community.  It's baffling.

[Bronto 10 million]

actually, i have something helpful to add, for those who want to convert BT or CO or whatever. open all the files that you want to strip the defunctified PC characters off of with AppleWorks. It does it automatically when it opens it, this way all you have to do is replace the old one when you save it. It will save you a couple hours or so.
Question: i accidentally converted the .map files to appleworks format, but didnt change anything in them: is this gonna matter?

[rookie]

Hey Toby, Franx or whoever can help me with doing a homegrown conversion of Black Thorn,

i encountered a problem: Having downloaded Tex Edit and SoundApp, i tried to convert exactly the way Franx described it in his post - with some minor exceptions: I let my buddy who owns a PC burn only the mods folder on CD, then i converted the files like Franx told.  But: I own the US version of RS UO and i used a German version of BT for the conversion.  Maybe you call me a Dumbass now, but could this be the cause for the maps not appearing in custom Mission menu?  In the save folder was a camp 0000 file from my PC buddy in which i converted all files with TexEdit.  Also, the map folder contained some additional files underneath the
BT 01 , BT 02... and EPO 01, EPO 02...  folders.  Those files seemed to have the DOS control characters so i converted them too.  Was this my mistake?  The files had .mis as ending and were, to repeat it clearly, NOT within the BT or EPO folders but were listed under them in the map folder.  If only the camp 0000 folder is the problem, please send me one which works to the following e-mail adress: felixBM@aol.com.  I really hope you can help me, even if you would clearly tell me that with a german BT and US RS/UO the conversion could never be done, for i have spent many hours on this conversion(my first try on such a thing) and would appreciate to know if there ever is a chance for me to play the BT maps    

rookie