Make Admin Votes Public...

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Okay, I had an idea today.....why aren't the votes that admins make made public?  I mean, not all of the discussions in the admin section, but just the actual vote.....what admin voted for or against a certain rule, problem, or whatever.  Even our congressmen's votes are public record....on any issue you can go and look how a certain person voted on anything.

So I propose that admins vote records be made public.  All this secrecy is a little annoying.

[Aramarth]

That is being discussed actually.

[Civrock]

i disagree. which admin voted for what in a topic should stay private... final decisions about topics will be made public as usual.

[BTs_FahQ2]

GS is crafty, I think he just wants to see who voted to ban us.

Muahahahahaha

[BTs_GhostSniper]

GS is crafty, I think he just wants to see who voted to ban us.
Muahahahahaha

Although that would have been a plus had this been in place at that time.....

I am not asking that voting records of the past be opened up....this would start from the time it was voted in, and would not be retroactive to the past.

[BFG]

um wasn't that posted and signed by each of the admins involved in that issue, and made as clear and open as possible?

The 'actual' vote is the one bit i think probably dosn't need to be done in public. there is nothing to stop the admins from making public how they feel, which would be obviouse from the discussion that hopuflly take place here. Obviously the more open and public the discusions are the better but when things come down to the final vote and decision making what advantage is their in them putting these votes in public?

[BTs_GhostSniper]

i disagree. which admin voted for what in a topic should stay private... final decisions about topics will be made public as usual.

Now that is the same problem we have now in the U.S. Congress....people think they can just vote any old way they want and not be held accountable for it.  Well, I believe this would make the admins a little more accountable for their votes.

What's wrong Civic?  Do you have something to hide that you don't want the rest of the Battle League to see?

[Civrock]

it'd only encourage flaming.

[Toxic::Joka]

i disagree. which admin voted for what in a topic should stay private... final decisions about topics will be made public as usual.

You can stand behind your decissions right? why not make it public? thats the way it works in real life.. . (parliaments and such)

How would it encourage flaming? Please enlighten us.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Obviously the more open and public the discusions are the better but when things come down to the final vote and decision making what advantage is their in them putting these votes in public?

It's called ACCOUNTABILITY.  Why all the secrecy?  Makes me think you have something to hide if you don't want your actual vote made public.

[Civrock]

You can stand behind your decissions right? why not make it public? thats the way it works in real life.. . (parliaments and such)

How would it encourage flaming? Please enlighten us.

i always stand behind my decisions. but it?s my choice if i want to make it public or not... we?re not politicians.

just last seasons finals... do u remember it? the vote of certain admins became public... the rest is history (flaming, flaming, flaming between several people). that?s why I am careful...

[BTs_GhostSniper]

You can stand behind your decissions right? why not make it public? thats the way it works in real life.. . (parliaments and such)

i always stand behind my decisions. but it?s my choice if i want to make it public or not... we?re not politicians.

Exactly my point....it shouldn't be YOUR CHOICE if you want it to be made public or not.....all votes should be made public.  And who cares if someone flames you for a vote you made!  Hell, if you can't take the heat (great pun here) then stay out of the vote!

[Mr.Mellow]

If the votes are public, and an admin has to make a vote against their friends, they might change their vote just so they don't offend their friends, and the end result is an inaccurate voting session. Also, it WOULD encourage flaming. I can see it now. People will be sending death threats and constantly flaming any Admin who votes against his/her clan. I can think of a few people who already accuse the Admins of voting against them, and hate them because of it. Imagine if they actually found out who it was. I think votes should remain anonymous, but perhaps the number of admins who voted one way or another could be released. Think ya already do that, though. Anyhoo. Just my 2 cents.

[Brain]

You can stand behind your decissions right? why not make it public? thats the way it works in real life.. . (parliaments and such)

How would it encourage flaming? Please enlighten us.

i always stand behind my decisions. but it?s my choice if i want to make it public or not... we?re not politicians.

just last seasons finals... do u remember it? the vote of certain admins became public... the rest is history (flaming, flaming, flaming between several people). that?s why I am careful...

news flash civic, congress has the choice to make any vote they want secret, but they DON'T they keep the voting record public.

your reasoning here is shaky at best. flaming can be controlled via moderation. always has always will.  the community has NOTHING to lose from hearing the admin debates. the only thing you will lose is that sense that nobody knows exactly what hell is going on in the admin forums. that fact has spawned much of the unnecessary hatred between people here, is partially responsible for the BTS MP5 issue, is also partially responsible for the elitist 'i know best' attitude of some admins, and much confusion in the community because they do not know what is being discussed and voted on.

so here's the thrown gauntlet civic. since you didn't do this last time (MP  finals thread, you only leached off of flies answers, and never posted anything lengthy that you personally wrote), i doubt you haver the guts to meet anyone on a head to head flameless post battle, but here is your chance to prove me wrong. pull out facts that prove me wrong. you've got a keyboard. Use it to type them out instead of "i agree with flies" all the time.

you're move civic, i'll be waiting for it

-Brain

[crypt]

--off topic potential flamebait removed--  (Alaric)

I think admin voting in the public area would be a favoritism spectacle, not a good idea.

[|?K|*Rapid*]

Wow, GhostSniper for President of the next BL of any kind!

Damn, talk about making a good call.  I personally, would love to see how the Moderators voted vs my clan, in lots of cases in the past.  So I certainly would like to see the records.  It would help me understand their points of views on how they thought they were right.  I know a lot of times, they were WAY wrong from the facts presented in the cases...  Which lead to me and my clan to no longer want to participate, or associate ourselves with this environment.  And to be truthful, since we are the competitve type, we always did keep an eye out for this, and any other Battle League that might spring out, except with more mature people running it, using logic and facts publicly, without the secrecy, while being able to present themselves respectfully, minus any flaming of any kind by anybody.  That's what's needed in a competitive environment.  Respect by everybody.  And the Moderators, should be the example for everybody to follow, therefore letting the public see their views on any case about anything.  That shouldn't be a problems, since everybody's being as honest as they can be, while everybody properly agreeing.  And frankly, the lack of that, is what keeps not just me, but many other clans away from this environment.  Who wants to deal with biased views that are all secret, with no public showing of what's being said.  Especially when the outcomes certainly just don't seem right by any means.  That's when you really need to hear how these "moderators" came about their decision.  And that, shouldn't be too much to ask by anybody, let alone the participating clans, especially their leaders.

Anyways, to really get back to the point, to be a moderator, is to set an example on how everybody should present themselves around here.  If we can understand our Moderators, we can understand whether they're right or wrong.  More or less like a public jury, with all facts free to be viewed by the public.  That's why it's important for not just them, but for everybody to take it more serious.  It's a HUGE competitive bunch, and only way to run it, is with honor and respect.  Flamers need stay home and learn to present themselves properly.    

Let's see this happen!
                -|?K|*Rapid*

[Aramarth]

Pardon me Rapid, but aren't literally all the admins of your issue now retired or replaced? Oh dear me, they are. Looks like you are full of an outdated arguement then. Take your rant somewhere that it applies, which obviously isn't here.

[Supernatural Pie]

If we can understand our Moderators, we can understand whether they're right or wrong.

The whole point of having moderators in the first place is to have someone decide who is right or wrong, without the endless arguments from the people involved. It's not our decision to decide if our moderators are right or wrong. They are appointed initially because they will be able to make the least biased, most fair decision possible.

[|?K|*Rapid*]

damn aramarth, had you tried understanding my post, you would've seen my intention was to bring up past issues in the BL where Mods discussed matters in privately, then came to a "conclusion".  A couple of these conclusions made no sense whatsoever, so it would be to my and my clan's best interest to see how these decisions were made.  It'll clear up a lot of things for me and everybody involved and spectating.  Besides, weren't these decisions that were made "fair", so there should be no shame in showing how they came about, right?

SNiPE, that's  your point of having moderators.  Anybody in their right mind, knows a Moderator not only there to mediate, but also to carry himself/herself with honesty and respect.  More or less an example for all to follow.  Any time they take their personal feelings, and use them to get their personal revenge vs those that they personally don't like in BL related matters for example, it's simply wrong.  All that can be avoided by smart Moderators, that have np being honest and open how they come about their decisions.  Especially, since it won't involve personal feelings, meaning they would have no reason not to share them publicly.   That's the point of having Moderators share voice their views publicly for all to see and learn from.  Hell, it'll help for some of those "mistakes" to not be repeated!  That's the point of Public Discussion of issues.  We don't know if they're being fair, if we can't see what they're saying!

Again SNiPE, take that silly quote off your signature, because we all know who got owned when me and you CB'ed each other.  (You, 8-4-1 when you were in ?cE and 6-4 when you were AgT)  That poor attempt at flaming at me, is your weak attempt at feeling better about getting owned in every CB you've had against me.  Certainly not necessary, but again, probably the therapy you need.  Now pls, act your age...  

*sigh*

Wait, I thought Mauti had stopped letting people flame each other in their signatures...   Apparently not, especially since he's been flaming for couple months with that sig...

ps: can a moderator pls delete the post above this one.  Made a mistake.  Thanks.

[Supernatural Pie]

Again SNiPE, take that silly quote off your signature, because we all know who got owned when me and you CB'ed each other.  (You, 8-4-1 when you were in ?cE and 6-4 when you were AgT)  That poor attempt at flaming at me, is your weak attempt at feeling better about getting owned in every CB you've had against me.  Certainly not necessary, but again, probably the therapy you need.  Now pls, act your age...  

Wait, I thought Mauti had stopped letting people flame each other in their signatures...   Apparently not, especially since he's been flaming for couple months with that sig...

Rapid, it is not my intent to flame you with that quote. I am simply showing that AcE is a well respected clan, and that there have been instances in which people had so much respect for their abilities that they felt it would be in their clan's best interest not to cb against them. It was just coincidental that you were quoted in this particular instance.