Older BL Problem Drop Box Posts

[[OZ] Jedda]

Problem with cb against GhRa>.

Replays asked for straight after CB. Delivered 10 minutes too late. 2 Replays missing.

Same problem happened with us a few days ago. Replays sent too late with some missing, only in this case there is no accusaton of glitching in these games.

I am 100% positive that GhRa> didnt cheat in these games, but the fact that they are missing is a problem to me. The lateness is also a problem. If it is truly nessacary, i can provide screenshots proving the times ect.

But do you know what? I DONT WANT TO!  (change of pace)

GhRa won this CB fair and square, but according to the standards that you laid down in our case....we should be awarded the CB at 6 - 0. The "NEW" rules clearly state that 'if one clan asks for a replay the replays must be sent within 10mins after the cb was finished or the cb will be nullified or counted as forfeit win."

I am saddened by the fact that i have spent more time looking at the rules, and triple checking my responses this season than actually playing Ghost Recon. I know of other clan leaders and members who agree wholeheartedly.

In this case, i truly want GhRa to be awarded the victory. They won fair and square.

The rules state not.

[OZ] is not a clan that prides itself on getting victories after the "final whistle". We enjoy winning at what the ladder is for.... Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon, not breaches of dodgy rules.

I have a solution. A magic solution indeed!

Please! Award the CB to GhRa> and do some rethinking over the rules.

They offered no flexiblity in our case, and wont in others.

6 months ago, when i bought this game and founded a clan, i never thought that one day, i would be embroiled in some sort of "scandalous political outrage" over a bunch of formulated rules and their "biting" consequences.

I never wanted to be the leader of a clan that was accused of sore losing.
I never wanted to be the leader of a clan that was accused of cheating.

I wanted to be the leader of a clan that had fun! Unfortunatly, that fun seems to be declining these days.

Have a good one, and make the right decision - J

[[OZ] Jedda]

On a completely different note...

I notice that the |devil| clan has won a cb in the matchlist but has 0 on the ladder..

Dont know if its a bug or what...

Smiles! - J

[*DAMN Hazard]

Cb submitted. First post kept because Jedda wanted the situation for future problems addressed by Mauti.

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

Ok in the c| v |GM| cb. we belive lightwave glitchkilled noreaga on the stronghold map. I would like a bl admin to check the replay  its replay game # 6 ( i put 4 the first time sry) http://bobfromaccounting.kicks-ass.net/GMvsC.zip

you will see lightwave crawl up to top of incline. you will see noreage stnd up and then drop again. you will then see lightwave crawl down a little. then noreaga stands back up he shoots at lightwave but is only able to hit top of hill while lightwave is able to shoot noreaga.


p.s. we dont need alot of post on this issue like in other ones. just waiting for bl admins to check it and give word on it.

[c| Splinter]

The replay is actually game #6 for those looking.

Well after watching the replay a few times, here's my thoughts.  I definitely agree that Noreaga should have had that kill.  You can see a lot of his bullets hit the back rock, and you see a few hit in mid air and give that burst of dirt.  

I have yet to talk with lightwave, but in total honesty from his view, I would have had no idea that he was glitching.  The grade of the slope is pretty minor, and he's not on the edge of it.  It's a different glitch than any one i've seen.

That being said, even though I doubt it was intentional, Noreaga should have had that kill.  I don't know what the policy on accidental glitches are, but I definitely think that at least that round should be redone.  But ultimately it's up to the admins to decide.

And I agree with Harvey, please don't let this turn into yet another of the daily flame wars.  Whatever ruling the admins decide is acceptable to c|.

[*DAMN Mauti]

If you have used a glitch accidently because you didn't know about it and the other clan agrees to that you usually just have to replay the game in question with the same settings(map, gamemode, team color).

Mauti

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

Mauti did you look at replay? It clearly shows him laying down on a slope, crawling up to top of slope, looking over, and shooting.. but Mauti if you would like us to replay that game... c| just let me know when you would like to do it... but mauti plz check replay first to see what you think and give us the final word. If you look at replay.. its a classic case of slope/edge glitching. Both clans agree that it might be a glitch, I pritty sure that lightwave will say it unintional b/c we all say it when we/if we do it. The type of glitch used is one that i have known not to do ever sence someone whowed me the link on the MP site about glitching. but like i said mauti.. if in the replay it looks unintinional. then plz let us know so we can get this resolved. thx Lee

[*DAMN Mauti]

No I didn't watch the replay after my first response. Now I did and I must say just repeat the game in question. From Lightwave's view it is really impossible to know that you are invincible at this location. That it is a glitch. Just repeat the game with the same settings and map and see if it changes the outcome.

@ Jedda: I understand your worries and concerns and I agree that cbs should be decided by skills and not rules. May you have a suggestion how to rewrite the rule to prevent such problems with sending the email too late!? About missing replays I'll continue to be strict in this issue. If some are missing that have been asked for the cb will be nullified or changed to a forfeit win simply because to press one button isn't that difficult. I also thinkt to send between 4 and 8 replays(1-5MB) within 10mins should be manageable with most connections.

Bye,

Mauti

[Acrimonious]

Small question: Let's say I do a typical glitch ny accident/stress and no one notices (none of the victims ever see me) and that is later found in the replay, does that make the game illegal?

Let's take an example.

One of the most classical glitches are on Embassy Garage. Let's say I walk up the garage ramp and I see someone, freek, and go prone because it's a long range shot and my victim is unaware. I get the kill without any bullets being fired at me and then I remove myself from glitch area. Will that make me a cheater? This hasn't happened... Just want to know. Thanks

[Noto]

To Acri, and others:  Glitching Defined?
 
     Remember that a 'glitch' is a glitch in the game program.  If you are in a house, and you are able to shoot through the wall, but your enemy still had no clue where you were, is that a glitch?  Of course it is.  The way I see glitching is that it gives you an advantage for making a kill, and an advantage from being killed.  Whether or not your enemy was aware of where you were does not matter.  What does matter is that you shouldn't have been able to make the kill, however, a glitch in the game provided for it.  Basically, if you know it's a glitch, or even if you suspect it, you should avoid it at all costs.  Even if you are just doing recon and you do not intend to fire, if an enemy becomes aware of you and fires without the kill, you would still be glitching.  I think there have been more than enough glitches pointed out in this game so that all should be aware and cautious at times.  But, accidents still happen.

In my own view, glitching should only be called glitching if you are killed by someone you can not fire back upon due to a program glitch, or if you are able to kill without being killed yourself.  I think it is complete BS when people say "well he didn't shoot at me at all, but man I unloaded a full clip into him!  He was glitching!"  Case in point:  Anyone can pretty much see anyone inside the hangers of Airbase when you are outside, depending on the angle at which you are looking at the building.  Just because I can see him, does that mean if my bullets do not hit him, he is glitching?  I don't think so.  Just find another way to kill that guy.  Now, if someone kills you, and your teammate fires back and is unable to kill him, such as the tower in Airbase, that is definitely a Glitch.

I'm not meaning to add drama to the above issues, but is my definition of glitching a universal one?  Is it shared by the admins?  I'm only asking because I thought glitching was pretty well known and looked for, and it amazes me that anyone would want to intentionally do it any longer.  I think these issues that we have had this season with glitching bring about the question; what is glitching?  Maybe I'm looking past it in the rules, but i don't think there is a clear definition, or even a simple one, in the rules.  Perhaps the admins could redefine it for us.

Thanks...

.::|N| Noto

[Aramarth]

Noto you make an excellent point, but I would like to take it a step further if I can.  I watched the so-called glitch that lightwave is supposed to be in.  I'm sorry, it doesn't cut it.  The ditch is almost always easily recognizable by a bunch of dirt kicked up in front of the glitcher's head, but no kill results.  I mean to tell you I have never seen it otherwise.

Of course, I could be mistaken, but I think that at least in this case, this is a bad case of the OICW gremlin.  You see, that gun has such a powerful zoom in this game, that people think they are more accurate than they are, simply becasue of how large their target is.  Heck, I would dare you to take the FAL (this gun has the same average accuracy as the oicw) with its 2x zoom and see if you think the shot is as easy with a 2x scope.  As far as the game is concerned, the FAL (7.62 carbine) is just as likely to score a hit with a single shot as the OICW.

The other option (I didnt check this) is that the guy shooting at lightwave was using the sa80 right? That gun is LESS THAN HALF as accurate as the OICW.

Heck, I would love to believe that everyone has good motives in all this, but when I see tracers hitting the rocks about lightwave's head, and the lack of the tell-tale dirt cloud, I start to become suspicious.  Sure, Mauti has his rules straight here, replay the game.  But guys, there has to be a line somewhere.

As in Noto's post, how exactly do we intend to define glitching?  Is it merely an excuse to allow some to believe in a gun that isn't as good as they think?

[Narauko]

*pokes aramarth.

[c| Splinter]

Thanks Mauti,

GM and c| will replay that round as soon as we can get it organized.

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

Thx Mauti for the ruling

and in accordance w/ his ruling. i should be on l8r tonight around 7-830pm est. just get in touch w/ me then. and i will see you on the battle field. thx..Lee

BTW i just think it is funny that in this case its a clear ruleing that he glitched but you said replay the match. and in the BTs/SL case you gave them a win for a something that might not be a glitch...... just sems like contrasting rulings.I' m not tring to get the win b/c we will replay that game.. but the rulings need to be consistant!!!!!!!!! not ruled one way for one incident and another way for this incident whitch is a much more clear case of glitching.

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

OK game replayed... score stands at 5-3. w/ c| winning the cb. thx for the replay c|

[BTs_eight]

Ok i dont know about all you guys but im sure the vets can vouche for me on this.... what is it that you dont do on stairs ? Thats it lay down....

Why?
Cuase it causes neet little glitches...

exhibt a

www.battleteksquad.com/files/lobNRG.jpg

Check the 2 bullet holes in where the stairs save his life...

They posted the cb... we asked to replay the map if we found a glitch... they say its not we say it is admins?

You might have to lighten the image to see the holes but they are there...

[BTs_Colin]

we have the replay and it's quite clear... i hate to just jump in before anyone else.

we asked them to replay the game and then submitted anyway. that's just bad sportsmen ship.

before we played this map they actually asked us to choose another because of the house glitch. i'm not personally framiliar with it but they tried to get us to change!

it was a great CB and * has a great team together.

[Noto]

Hey eight,

     I don't know man, but it looks as if you can clearly hit some part of his body.  It looks as if 80% of his body is showing, which in my mind would be plenty hit.  You might not have been able to get a head shot, but there looks as if something could have been hit.  If you couldn't hit him in this position, there are one of two reasons why:

?    Reason 1:  This is a major glitch in the game.  I can't say i have ever seen a glitch to where the majority of the body was showing, and still not be able to be hit, other than the typical 'see through the wall' shit.

?    Reason 2:  No offense eight, but unless the replay shows little puffs of smoke, as if your bullets are hitting concrete but it is where his body is, then you're aim seems to be off.

I know there really isn't a reason for me to reply... but I was awake...

.::|N| Noto

[TRIBE_Horda]

why/who confirmed this cb btw ?

cb prob with nbk

here:
http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=4879


cant check their dam replays

about glitches:
oh and btw some guys use glitches to be able to c across walls ; like in small house in  mp river or in ambassy

[Noto]

Hey Horda,

     Check the definition for glitching.  I posted in this thread on the first page about it.  If no shots were fired, then what's the harm?  If anything he gave his position away, and also pinned himself.  You can easily reposition yourself; He cannot.  Advantage goes to you, but my personal view would say it's not a 'glitch' that helped him to kill you or a teammate.  There are way too many glitches in this game to call them all out.  We should probably just stick to the ones where the glitch is used for a tactical advantage in the way that shots are fired, and someone gets hit.

.::|N| Noto