OZ vs GM Last Replay Issue

[|GM|}{ush]

Come on guys! It is IMPOSSIBLE to "lose" a replay 2 times in one match, and have it coincidentally be the same level that was in question!!! All other replays were produced without any trouble.  Common sense says that the replays were not given up because what was going on at the castle, was something they did not want us to see! But even that doesn't matter, the BOTTOM LINE is that the rules state "The record game feature must be enabled. If one clan asks for a replay the replays must be sent within 10mins after the cb was finished or the cb will be nullified or counted as forfeit win." PERIOD. What else is there to debate over???

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

We did play the last game again on a map the GM choose. Wel they saved that replay. but we played 5 games on there server (not including the one that we redid where they quit the game w /out saveing the replay) i only recived 4 replays NOT 5. the other time we played castle was missing. so both times we played castle were not saved. just seams a little fishy to me.

[[OZ] Martin]

Guess I should throw in my $.02.

This is not to be considered the opinion of the OZ clan. I was not there and am also just a grunt in the ranks. Therefore this is just my own opinion.

As there is a lot of understandable criticism about this cb I feel that one of several things should happen for it to be resolved.

1) The last 2 matches are replayed, saving the replays obviously.

2) The cb is replayed in full.

or

3) The cb is forfeit and declared to GM.

On the subject of glitching I really doubt that anyone in OZ cheated. If it turns out they did then I, at least, will have to seriously rethink my own place in OZ. OZ is supposed to be a fun clan, put together for Australians. The final aim of the clan is to have fun, not win at any cost.

As I said before this is my own opinion and is not to be considered the opinion of the clan.

[c| Dr. NO]

I'm going to have to agree with voodoo on this ruling.  They had been saving replays the whole game, why not on these two rounds, the round where a glitch may have happend.    I think GM should get the win simply due to the fact that OZ broke a rule.  Nomaly i think in mauti's mind he would rather seek an option that would please both clans while being fair and at the same time with out having to just lay down the law.  But in this case, if the cb is not handed to GM i beleive it will do nothing but open the door to more replay bs and we will see alot more of these time wasting threads.  It will also in one sence be a go giver to glitchers that have the host.  Think about it, you have the host, you glitch your way to a win hoping the other clan didnt notice anything funny.  If they did, "oops, i forgot to save the replay".

nuff said.

[Jeb]

I don't think OZ should get the loss for not having saved the last replay...

Simply because they think someone might have used a glitch because someone from the other clan showed it to them previously... They shouldn't be able to lose, then pick up a 6-0 win because someone didn't click the replay button. Replay the match on a different map. I think GM is being way to quick to want to get 6-0 win via a rules violation in this case.

[Zabe]

Whats going on? We settled this! WE DIDNT CHEAT GM UNDERSTOOD THAT LAST NIGHT WHEN THEY SHOWED US THE GLITCHES! The first castle map was NOT saved because GM did not ask for it. I checked in the rules and thats fine. The second one was an accident and then i went off to dinner! We rematched the second game and won, we can rematch the first as well. OR LETS JUST KILL THE WHOLE THING. Yes we made some mistakes, we have learnt from them and are sorry.
But we play for fun and fighting over a game and being accused of cheating is not fun. We have always liked GM, they are good guys. If a CB means life and death then take it. We dont care enough to go through so much distrust and abuse.

[[OZ] Jedda]

Exactly Jeb!

When im hosting a server, i sometimes forget to save replays!

This is crazy!

I go to sleep last night, thinking we have won the same cb twice, and happily - wake up in the morning, and half the GhR community is accusing my clan of cheating!

I have only just NOW learnt that [OZ] Rhino has spent the last few days compiling a list of glitches that can be used in GhR. He now tells me that he was doing this so he could point out what to look iout for...but i also think he was having a bit of fun with it =P. I only found out about this so called glitch that exists (i still dont know what it is) AFTER the CB, when Harvey eplained about his problem.

Im just wondering how me or any of my members could use a glitch that we do not even know the details of?

Hell, i know you hvae to trust me on this one, and i can see how fishy it sounds, but this is truly silly.

Take the win. Perhaps our mistakes grant that. We had to win the cb twice, but there were MORE problems with replays..

I just dont care about this CB anymore. If it means heaven and earth that you evade a loss, do it. Thats how the cookie crumbles.


Out. - J

[GhostSniper]

We asked for every replay to be saved and after each map they even acknowledged that they saved the replay.  Then the issue with the last game came up and they didn't save that one.  Well, then when we get the replays, the map from earlier in the game is missing as well as the last game!  Just doesn't make any sense to me.

[Zabe]

WHY ARE WE STILL FIGHTING!? It seems like we are repeating the same things over and over again and no one is listening! You did not ask for the first castle replay and in the rules if you dont ask you dont get it (although im saving every time from now cause it just creates so much shit if you dont).
IM HUMAN! I MAKE MISTAKES! AND I MADE A MISTAKE ON THE SECOND CASTLE GAME!!!
Throw me off the boat in docks! Push me off the walls in Castle! SEND ME TO AN ONLINE PENEL COLONY IF IT WILL HELP YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT!
Cause guys, we are over fighting. You can get your cheap win if you want. We won the CB. We made a mistake. We rematched the last game, just as you asked on a map of your choice to compensate for my clumsiness. We won that. JEEZ!!! COME ON GUYS! Either give OZ a win for winning, give GM a win for loosing twice or cancel the whole CB. BUT DO IT NOW!! WE ARE OVER IT! WE LIKED GM AND WE STILL DO . We see their point of view and can empathize with their cause. But OZ is being made out to be the bad guys here without the slightest bit of understanding. We dont need empathy. We just need to win or loose.

[c| Spetsnaz.]

 First, OZ broke the rules, therefore if the battle league is to have any legitimacy they should be penalized. Second, you can say you didn't cheat that's great, but I can call your bluff from 10,530 miles away, I know exactly what happened in that match and the only thing that could verify this was "mistakenly destroyed". Third, The replayed match has no validity in my view because I was not even present, so how could this possibly be a continuation of the matches that I participated in? Lastly, If the ruling is not awarded to |GM| then in my humble opinion the BL will be tarnished and the shroud of deceit so cleverly constructed by the OZ clan will have been successful.

[[OZ] Rhino]

This really is becoming a witch hunt now....
I pride myself to find those glitches in mostly every map.... not to use them and abuse them but to put them to a good cause.... Knowing about every damn glitch in this game is a pro yet also a con... if people know that I know nearly every glitch then they make it look like [OZ] all glitch... I do not use them for that purpose and I really do hope none of the other members in [OZ] use them for bad purposes.... I try to spread the word about these glitches and for them to be put to good use ie. ( If someone was suspected of glitching this is made much more easy to find when and where that person glitched ) If I knew anyone glitched while cb'ing I would hate them and never trust them... GM| you got your rematch and we rightfully won... and now you are trying to take this away from us =(

[c| Spetsnaz.]

 You took your win away when you neglected to follow the rules. I said at the end of every match "SAVE REPLAY" then on the last and most important match you exited out of the after action window so fast I could not remind you to properly save the replay. Accident or not a rule was infracted and therefore a penalty should ensue. As for the cheating issue, nothing can be proven so this is the last I will speak of it. Distrustfulness and abusiveness are my foremost qualities, because so often the truth is not so clear.

[[OZ] Jedda]

Shroud of deceit so cleverly constructed?

This is really starting to piss me off.

Take the win, and stop bitching.

I can do nothing else to prove we didnt cheat. Now, i wish the replays had of been saved so i could prove it.

|GM| may never CB us again, and after this rediculous fuss that they have kicked up, i dont particlarly want to.

Also, would someone like to explain this glitch? I still am in the dark about what we 'so cleverly' did.

Dumb. - J

[[OZ] Zabe]

Guys please, do you know what it feels like to be wrongly accused? Lame as this whole thing is just look at the issue objectively. OZ beats you. Breaks a rule by clicking accidentally. Rematches you to compensate. Beats you again. Still we havnt won...
And in the true CB'ing tradition you treat the matter like life and death and fabricate this great plot about OZ doing this glitch we never knew about and that we should loose because we made a mistake. Well as far as we knew that had been resolved because of the rematch which both clans agreed to.
We have never had to endure so much crap over anything in the GameRanger community!
And despite the obvious facts we have better things to do than bitch endlessly to one disgruntled member of GM who unlike the rest of his clan, continues to fuck around trying to get a cheap win.
Spetsnaz, if you have any sense of decency TAKE YOUR DAMN WIN. We obviously cannot prove that we did not cheat to you despite the acquiescence of your clan. SO TAKE THE WIN. STOP BITCHING AND GET A LIFE!

[[OZ] Rhino]

yes I agree.....
Stop this stupid madness...
It's just a 'GAME'
not a matter of life and death
you got your blood covered win...
HAPPY?
and on the matter of cheating...
I just wish we had saved it so we could prove u wrong

[[OZ] Martin]

Has anyone tried to emulate the effect Ghostsniper described on the first page of this thread. Is it possible.

[c| Spetsnaz.]

 You messed up, I called you on it. The more blood the better.

[Jammer]

Its a real shame people have been so quick to jump to conspiracy theory - an underlying assumption of distrust has been levelled - this presumes complicity and a cheat to win mentality that smears the entire  OZ clan.

OZ is a proud clan with people of high integrity and a natural sense of fair play - not a team of cheaters win at any cost merchants !  I see no understanding of the OZ spirit, nor any benefit of the doubt that people are telling the truth.

So if you want to be pedantic and play rule hardball, then lets deal with Rule 9 .....the question also needs to be asked...was the REPLAY asked for within the 30 second min time allocation for after match.

"9.   The record game feature must be enabled. Furthers the after action time has to be at least 30 seconds. If any troubles occur each clan has the right to ask the host to save the reply so admins can watch the game later and decide more objective. Notice that on dedicated servers the admin has to be in the game or otherwise you can't save the reply!"

Rule 9 has several components, if you want to apply it, the entire rule needs to be examined, not just the first sentence. If the REPLAY was not asked for within 30 seconds, and then the game closed then that's unfortunate, but they ARE the rules.

Furthermore, prevailing network conditions mean that this rule is essentially arbitrary and unworkable, and cannot establish any benchmark - 30 seconds after match at the host end does not guarantee 30 seconds for ANY other players, nor is 30 seconds really long enough to deal with disputenotice at the end of a game.  But all that's irrelevant, the rule says 30 seconds, and GM have indiacted that they want to apply the letter of law, not the spirit of matchplay.

In addition to this, the rules specifically address cheating - for one clan to accuse another of cheating see Cheat Tests clauses 1-7.  GM has clearly levelled a gameplay cheating allegation, I have seen no reference that suggests that any Cheat Test was performed.  This is one simple rule - the ONLY rule in the Rules that pertains to cheating - and it has clearly not been satisfied.  Therefore, again, by rule hardball - sorry GM - you loose.

This thread has raised accusations that truly speaking, evidentially, could only be verified with an impartial OBSERVER referee or umpire. Who said what when to whom - where are the time stamps and chat logs.  

Allegations have been made which cannot be proven and which deliberately smear the reputation of another team.  As a matter of conduct within a competition this is totally unacceptable behaviour.  In any professional sporting arena - if you libelled another player or team in this way you would have to face the burden of proof test...prove it or shut up and face the consequences of making false accusation and libel.

So if you want to adjudicate this rule hardball, I humbly suggest that GM should be censured for "unsportsman like conduct" for their inflammatory public accusations and snide denegration. No Cheat test was asked for, therefore no cheat accusations can be made under the rules of the League.  Furthermore, the time duration aftermatch needs to be accessed, if it met the required 30 seconds and the REPLAY notice did not present to the host, then closing the game was a legitimate action and should not constitute a breach leading to forfeiture.

I suggest that all the evidence demonstrates that OZ won this CB !

[c| Spetsnaz.]

 Censure me for "unsportsmen like conduct" do what you like, it will not change my feeling on the issue. Infact take the win, this will set an excellent example for how similar situations can be dealt with in the future. Perhaps I need to search my inner self and find that "OZ spirit".

Also I am honestly sorry about my vicious comments, but you must understand my paranoia. I really do like the OZ clan, they are a great bunch of fellows. As far as im concerned if we can come out of this as friends, the ruling on the match will have no relevence to me.

[[OZ] Martin]

Ok

Now that we've all yelled at each other enough, what do we do about it in the future.

Cheat tests can show hacks and other such cheats easily but how do you detect people glitching during games. To paraphrase Dr No. "How do we stop the possibility of the host clan glitching then failing to record replays?"