Ghost lost its virginity - shocking cheats !!

[Noto]

I have a few opinions on the whole cheating thing.  In order to understand and accurately determine when a cheat is being used, you have to know something about the cheats.  If this is the *DAMN Battle League, I would hope that *DAMN has done some research into what cheats are available, how long they have been out, and perhaps how to tell if someone has, or is using them.  I would hope this isn't the first time they have heard of it though.  What kind of a league would that be if they were behind the times?  I wish everyone would stop ACTING so nieve.  Coming from a PC gaming community, I know cheats come out everyday.  It's not like GhR hasn't had cheats until now.  There are, and have been since the game came out, cheats for SIFF, Maps, Zooms, Skins, Sound Effects, Doppleganger Cheat (clone of you running around drawing fire), Observer mode while playing, and many others.  Many of the people who were making the cheats for PC are now just porting them over to Mac.  Try it, go to Google and type in something about cheating and ghost recon.  See what you find.  Yeah it's mostly PC, but I'm sure there are quite a few Mac Warez sites out there.  Also, I can agree with the fact that Full Night Vision is a cheat, but people are claiming things they do not know about.  The FNV that is out there was not designed as it was.  The original game data was simply transformed.  The reason the black circle thingy is gone is because whoever made the mod simply took off that part of the game.  That's why snipers don't have it as well.  The night vision aspect of it was taken out all together.  If you look into the game data files you can clearly see that the FNV isn't night vision at all.  It's simply a shade filter, like when you look at your map and everything gets a little darker.  The original programmer of the FNV took out the existing night vision file all together and made a new one.  There are even ways to have both night visions in your data file at the same time!  You can toggle them with seperate keys as well.  Furthermore, the "recently updated" version of GhR took the existing night vision files added a pixelization mod.  If you can remember back to the days ofthe originally fresh installed GhR, night vision was clear AND could cut out all fog and see further in the distance on every map.  If I were to use the files, would that be cheating?  It came with the original disc right?  Basically, I would consider the old night vision more of a cheat than the current FNV.  I also agree with SignTist that night vision is full in real life.  If we are not going to try to emulate this type of a situation, then NETFONE should be considered a cheat as well.  Why?  Cause dead men can't talk.

I hope no one takes offense to this post as it was not directed to anyone or any clan.  I apologize in advance if this does upset anyone, but again, these are my opinions, and since I'm writing them from the U.S.A., I still have my right of free speech.


--- |n|`Noto

[c| Dr. NO]

....well, ok, point taken Flies, but what do we do now to prevent cheating? Take SS's? I've been taking to some people today about this, and their responce was, "well i have my PC right next to me, whoes going to stop me from croping the ss with reg NV".  That is if we do the SS rule for seeing if they have this mod.  + the fact that in order to prevent this mod, its going to cause more problems and take more time before battle to make everyone happy.  Why dont we come up with idea's to help with this and/or take a vote on it.

[Mr.Mellow]

The only thing I can come up with is to distrubute the files to everyone. I know that most people don't like the idea of it, but unfortunately, until there can be a way to fix this, it's the only viable solution to keep everyone on a level playing field. While I would like to think that everyone would be honest about not using it, there are always one or two people that take advantage of other's honesty. Therefore, I suggest making the files available again, unless someone can make an anti-cheat mod that will effectively eliminate the problem.

[*DAMN Mauti]

Flies,

I already made my clear statement that it is cheating and that we don't allow it. I just answered to SignTist.

Dr. No this modification will be banned and the thing that prevents you from doing a screenshot from your PC is that you type something on the screen and that you only have a certain time period before you have to send the pic to the other team so you don't have time enough to recreate it.

Bye,

Mauti

[l ! l Dutchman]

When I look at this thread I am very dissapointed a lot of people think so lightly about this cheating.
And i am surprised how many people used them. Even people from top clans. Now I ask myself: how they became good? By skills or by modifying the data folder of GhR?

Now don't tell me that I cheat by using Netfone. Netfone is allowed by the BattleLeague rules. Modifying your GhR data without telling the other team is considered CHEATING by those same rules.

Try to play the game instead of figuring out how to modify the game to your benefit.

Dutchman / ViRuS

BTW: what will happen with the next big cheat-discovery? Full amnesty again?

[Warrior 7]

As I said before this cheating mod is bullshit, and some people have even more, and the people that take lightly to it are the people that use it and  need it i guees, simple as that !!

  To Clan 'Battle now would make no sence to  me as I said before  !  The win is not measured on skill anymore what is a pitty!  The league here did not research the mod enough before they gave out the Download what is a pitty,  but there was people with this Mod before the Leauge brought it out anyway!

ghr killer

[Warrior 7]

what are you talking about dood??? get a life and learn a little about what's happening in the world. You're not even in a clan fool!
SignTist

I can only say just shut the fuck up you cheater!! (people with no skill always make shit like this!! fact!! and use it)

and to move one

This just proves my point that alot of people had this before(BT-C etc) and now and they will keep on using it who is to stop them? Clan Battle League has no value this year or in the future I think, until there is a solution to atleast the pending cheats that are on the surface of the earth!

[Noto]

I hope I didn't rattle too many chains with my NetFone comment.  I was merely pointing out the fact that NF could be considered a cheat.  If a cheat is defined as something that gives tactical advantage to one team over another, and is not of the original game data, then NF would be a cheat of sorts.  I use NF.  I love it.  It's a ton of fun to have live contact with people across the globe and to make friendships with people who's names you can't even pronounce.    Do we not consider NF a cheat because of it's overwhelming good points?  I only bring this up to counter the claim that Full Night Vision is a cheat as well.  FNV is available to everyone.  NF is only available to people who have microphones.  FNV gives clearer sight to everyone, but it does not help you aim or shoot more accurately.  NF let's dead men speak to one another.  FNV does not give coordinates of the enemy on a map.  NF allows members who have been knocked out of a cb due to being killed the chance the speak with all members and be "the map guy".  

You see, in these few points, NF seems more like a cheat than FNV.  I'm not saying that NF should be considered a cheat, but I am saying that if something that is not fully accessible (microphones) to the gaming community is allowed, then why can't something that everyone can have, and without tremendous advantage, cannot be used.  In our young age of technology, most of the solutions to these newly found cheat problems that we are discovering will not be adequate solutions.  Taking screen shots will only promote Photoshop users to hone their skills, not to deter cheaters.

Final point.  As long as we play in the community that we play in, cheaters will always be present.  I think we should be thankful the cheating aspect of this game is not in as full of a form as the PC version.  We all know it's just not fun.  Also, I obviously do not feel that NF or FNV are cheats, although there are many points that can consider them one way or the other.  I think what the GhR Mac community needs to focus on are game data cheats such as walking through walls, changing enemy skins, enhanced zooms, reticule locks, body armor, and basically anything anyone can think of.  If you can jump and fly around in Unreal Tournament, do you honestly think no one will try to alter game data in GhR to include things of that nature?  The members of this BL that are responsible for discovering cheaters should look into these more serious matters.  With simple editing programs, anyone can alter game data and cheat... and no one would be able to tell, not even observers.

Again, this post is not intended to single out any single person or clan.  They are just my views and opinions and not the views or opinions of my clan our my country, by which I am entitled free speech in the First Amendment of the United States Consitution.  

---Happy Gaming

     --- Noto

[l ! l Dutchman]

You see, in these few points, NF seems more like a cheat than FNV.

Netfone would have been a cheat when the rules say you are not allowed to use it. But fortunately it is, so it is LEGAL (for the people without a mic, buy one. NF is fun!)

You also state FNV is available to everyone. Well...so do other cheats. Does that make it legal to use them? Nope...it's still cheating.

Dutchman

[[01] Dark]

Ok lets face it most clans use Nf which means it would not be an advantage over the other teams in most cbs and if your clan dosnt have nf I recommend it. I use it just to chat with my friends etc but it saves alot of time and should not be banned.

thank you.

[Noto]

Hey you know something...  I totally forgot to mention a REALLY REALLY GOOD POINT.  

If the majority of cheats out there are on PC, then why do we let PC GhR players IP join in CB's?  Doesn't seem fair to me.  Who knows what kind of cheats they are running on their end, right?  There is no way to tell if someone playing on a PC is using cheats, therefore, until there is a 100% solution to this problem, the BL for mac GhR should be just for Macs in GameRanger.  I would think everyone would agree with this point, minus the PC users and their clan members of course.

By the way, my comments about NF was NOT intended to suggest a ban against it.  I'm just saying that just because the rules say it's ok doesn't mean it's not giving one team an advantage over the other.  NF is definitely an advantage.  I like it, I'm sticking with it.  And D, get some headphones.  I hate that reverb.

To place the NF comments in an analogy... Imagine if you were trying to patent an invention which would guarantee the deaths of innocent people on a daily basis and be the number one killer in your country.  No way right?  Well, that's what automobiles do, but since they have been around forever, who would ban them now?  NF has been around forever, who would ban it now?  It's just a thought.  Try not to read into it too much please.  I know NF doesn't kill people... that we know of.  

---Waiting patiently for a product better than NF

   --- Chris  (a.k.a.|n|`Noto)

[*DAMN Mauti]

Noto,

*DAMN encouraged clans to use voice applications since the first days of the BL in July 2000! It is a team based game and so we recommend to use voice apps as long as your connections allow it. Everyone knows that the other clan can use it contrary to the NV which was used without everybodies knowledge!

As jeb mentioned it the NV cheat is only the top of the iceberg but with the today introduced rule changes we are also checking games for other cheats...

Rules come later tonight.

Bye,

Mauti

[c| Ssickboy]

To All:  

sorry but Flies is right.   You should all take a page out of his book on this one.  

FNV is not available to everyone, that is why it is not official in the rules, and that is why its is a cheat.  Mic's not available to everyone?  Then, niether is a Dual 1.42GHz PowerPC G4.  Drop the NF issue, it's missing the point.  

It is at this moment that all should decide whether they want a ladder of competing modyfiers or of true GhR team skills.  Solutions need to be made to curb the problem, and those using the FNV files from this point on should check their sportmanship morals before using it, until it's (if at all) made official in the rules.  

!!!! c| has been taking a large brunt of the heat on this issue, and I repeat: cheats are not distributed or suggested internally by the c| clan, and are absolutely not allowed during cb play.  

I have for the past week been running a hunting application that reveals players with modded files during play on my server.  And here are the names:




jk'ing... I wish.   Cya in Battle


Ssick
 

[Warrior 7]

Sick Boy you have been using it and why should people believe you dont use it now???

All the wins you got on the BL were with the cheat along with BT and MP they use it too, so  I personaly got no respect for your clan or anyother clan that cheats!!

Just a shame that  people  must cheat to win!!  

And dont try and say you took it off cause I really doubt this  
NF was in the open and all people new about this like someone said if  you have no mic just buy one!

[l ! l Ross]

You don't know how much i want to swear right now.

What is the point of having Rules About Cheating if someone who brakes them is going to get away with it?

These clans and memebers have cheated for what seems to be a long time. They have modded the game to there advantage and used it in cbs against other clans.

I did think this Full Screen Night Vision only effected Night maps but now it seems it also helps snipers that could help on ever map in the game.

I now that taking action against this cheating would mean many clans could face a seson long ban and alot of memeber could be affeced but its better than just letting them get away with it.

So when the next cheat comes up what are player going to think? should i cheat and get away with it or no cheat and be at a disadvantage?

[*DAMN Mauti]

Ross in the NV cheat snipers have only full screen if they have NV activated. However there are tons of hacks out.

How do you want to proove backwards that a clan used the cheats in their cbs!? I can't ban clans and players only becuase of some chat logs that they used it once and then.

Uploading rules now...

Bye,

Mauti

[SturmSoldat]

If Mods or cheats are used by some and not all clans and clanmembers during cbs without everyones knowledge the Battle League becomes a DeFacto ModLeague or  CheatLeague instead of a Skill-based League.  What do you think is preferable: a league to reward clans with the best skills or a league to reward clans with the best mods/cheats?

[*DAMN Mauti]

If you didn't read the BL news:

Hi guys,

recently lots of unpleasant client hacks have been discovered within the GR community. As a consequence I'll introduce cheat tests. Cheat test don't have to be played if you think the cb was played fair and square. However every clan has the right to ask for a cheat test if you aren't sure if the other clan used some hacks or not. The cheat tests will only show some types of hacks but it will make the GR community a little bit safer. I know the cheat test extend the cb length a bit but the bad cheating behaviour of some of you forced us to do so. This BL should be won by skills not cheats!

- Cheat Tests

1.   If you think one clan cheats in a cb you have the possibility to ask for a cheat test during the lagtests or in the end of a host session(if players get subbed or chrash you can make another cheat test).
2.   The cheat test game doesn't count for the cb result.
3.   The team that asks for the cheat test chooses the map then you all meet(without to shoot) each other on this map. Choose a location near a building, stone or tree. Turn on nightvision then send a chat message so everyone knows when to do the screenshot.
4.   All players in the game have to do a screenshot(for GR default key F4) - on the screenshot the chat message from above, at least one player from the other team, and night vision activated must be visible.
5.   When all leave the host, to switch host or if the cb is over, everyone must send the screenshot to an email address of the other clan so both clans can check if the other clan used some common cheats or not.
6.   You have to send the screenshot within 5minutes after you have left the host. If you don't do so admins will judge about the cb and you as you would have cheated.

And last but not least I have changed the definition of the BL as Mac only ladder:

- *DAMN Battle League: clanladder only for Mac(Apple Macintosh) clans and players operating in GameRanger. Ip joining as well as other platform players are only allowed if both clans agree. Only clanbattles set up through GameRanger are counted;

That's it.

Mauti   

[BTs_eight]

Well this new rule improoves the chances of catching cheaters....

How about this? If you suspect a clan of using FSNV... Why not both clans decide before hand NOT TO PICK NIGHT MAPS.
If your really that scared about a clan using FSNV....

I have heard of other cheats... But there are some cheats that you just can't take a screenshot of.

I also heard of server side cheats.... Is there a way to maybe make some "offical" CB servers? If so... Please do one MOD to it... Make them be able to save replays...

Like i know for a fact my Server aint moded... I am to dumb to tinker with all them files... I don't even know how to open a .rsb file or have any idea what kind of file a rsb file is....

Maybe there is a way for admins to do constant server checkings for the "official" cb servers... again.. whats to say that these guys can't mod their servers right after it has been "officially" inspected....

Whatever those are my 2cents...

[*DAMN Mauti]

As said you don't have to do cheat tests if nobody suspects anybody.

Well you can't tab out in GR or the screen will appear black so the chance that you catch a cheater isn't that bad.

I never said it is childproof but at least it is a try and once everybody has trust in each other again there won't be much cheat tests.

Indeed you can't see all cheats on this screenshot but at least the 4 most common GR cheats can be detected easily. Eight the NV cheat is only one of several available client cheats and by far not the most accurate cheat... unfortunaly.

Eight you don't need any mod knowledge to drop some cheat files from one folder to another folder.

Bye,

Mauti if all players would play with honor it would have never come that far...