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Author Topic: So much for an improved point system. . .  (Read 2031 times)
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Typhy
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« on: April 29, 2003, 06:45:22 pm »
Yes, I'm a little behind the times, I guess; since I just now looked at the new points system.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the new points system intended to fix. . .

1.) One clan, who is 15-3, being ahead of another clan who is 17-0, but has done smaller CBs.

And 2.) "Tactical Ladder Use".

From what I see, this makes Tactical Ladder Use even more powerful.

I broke my powerbook, and am finally getting it replaced. I was a bit worried, because I was planning to make a run for #1 this week. Now that I've seen the new points system, I'm not the slighest bit concerned.

 To get to 140, mi and Dr would both have to go 7-0 from where they are right now.

For MP5 to catch up, if Dr and mi were both at 140, we could beat any clan with over 50 points --- Be at 70. Beat Dr and mi, we're at 105, one win over any clan, and we're in first place.

To be a little more clear:

Dr's record: 10-1.

Mi's record: 14-1.

MP5's record: 5-0.

But yet MP5 would be ahead of Dr? You have some serious problems with the points system.

My biggest problem with the points, was that I felt it was to hard for top clans to gain points, while lower ranked clans could get them easily.

What I would've like to have seen, was the minimum ammount of points for a CB put at 25.

25+players(2)+Loser/winner(5).

Loser loses 10% of current points.

Max points gained or lossed at a time: 40.

With that system, the clan with the best record would be in first place. You would still gain more points for beating stronger clans, and you would still gain points for going to the trouble of setting up larger CBs, but it would play less of a factor.

Example of how this would work.

Ladder:

C1: 145 points.
C2: 119 points.
C3: 102 points.
C4: 86 points.
C5: 79 points.

C5 defeats C1, in a 3v3, they get 25+6+9, totalling 40 points. points.

Where as, C1 defeats C5, in a 3v3, they 25+6,+2, totalling 33 points.

It would eliminate clans waiting until the end to CB, because the top clans would be able to gain points quickly, so they would be to far ahead to be caught in just a couple days.

It would eliminate the clan who does 4v4s, but has a 17-4 record, and ends up ahead of the clan who has done 2v2s, and has a 18-0 record.

It will also keep it so that clans are willing to CB other top clans. Under the current points system, if a clan who is at 300 loses, they're down to 240, so the system would encourage them not to CB the top clans. If they lose 10%, capped at 40, 300 only loses you 30 points, and brings you down to 270.

Just something that you might want to consider, since, already, if you look at the ladder, the screwed up points system is showing.
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« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2003, 07:20:55 pm »
Typhy what are you talking about???

"One clan, who is 15-3, being ahead of another clan who is 17-0, but has done smaller CBs"

Where the hell do you see this? Look at the GR ladder BT needs 6 wins more than c for 10 points because of only 1 loss!

The system is thankfully not about win/losses ratio. Yes you can easily catch up the number 1 and that was made with purpose to make it more competitive. To become the number 1 isn't such a problem to hold the position is now much harder becuase you can't get earn much points as number one. So batteling noob clans over and over isn't that much effective than last season because only one loss costs you 20 percent of your current score.

The system is better than last season and will work out as explained in the other thread:

You gain very much points if you start later. The second cb will already bring you much less points and after the third won cb in a row you don't get more points than other top clans.

You will see it works out especially the finals will be exciting.

Regards,

Mauti
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« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2003, 08:08:11 pm »
All right, Mauti. Come take a look at the Rogue Spear ladder with me.

#1: mi, 70 points, 4 wins, 0 losses.

#2: dr, 70 points, 1 win, 0 losses.

A 4-0 clan is tied with a 1-0 clan?

Dr's wins: TF6.

mi's wins: TF6, TF6, Dark, Dark.

Hmm, TF6's cancel eachother out. . . Somehow 3-0 is the same as 0-0?
     
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« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2003, 09:26:14 pm »
Well that's easy explained:

TF6 won 6 cbs in a row -> became the number one.

Dr beat them and got full 60 points.

mi4 got for their 2nd and 3rd cb only 20points because they were number 1 only the last cb against Tf6 got them more points.

All in all the skillpoint system is very unprecise with less cbs played(that was it always). Like the speedometer in most cars doesn't work precise if you are driving under 20km/h. The skillpointsystem is designed that the clans play at least 5 - 10 cbs to give you an accurate feedback about your clans skills.

Bye,

Mauti
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« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2003, 10:16:50 pm »
i think typhy's point is that any skilled clan simply has to wait until lesser clans have  moved up the ladder. Beating a clan with a large amount of points results in them loosing a huge amount of points, and you moving up at a much faster ratio.
The new system punishes people for loosing (a good thing), and it punishes people who start Cbing early. So yeah, tactical use is back  Shocked
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« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2003, 10:19:20 pm »
Well said, Jeb. --- The "to the point" version of my post.  
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« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2003, 11:12:21 pm »
I personally like the system. Don't lose and you won't have any problems.

Besides, I think bts deserves those 10 extra points. They have worked hard for those 10 extra points. And if in the next confrontation we win, then they will go back to being #2.
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« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2003, 11:39:02 pm »
Another thing.

With losing 20% of your points, top clans will have to win 6 CBs for each loss to gain any points.

I can only think of two clans that can do that against good competition, and both are inactive. ( AK and KoS ).

Is it reasonable to expect clans to go 6-1 against top clans?  

When I look at that, I think it encourages clans to only CB weak clans.
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« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2003, 04:47:55 am »
20% a loss is a great idea. You lose 60 points a loss only if you have 300 points. If you are a top clan and can't win 6 times for every loss, then you will stablize at a lower number.  

  In the last Ghost Recon ladder season, Virus and DEA just kept on getting more points. The lower clans had a nearly impossible chance to catch up.  In this season, the point gap shouldn't be so dramatic.
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« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2003, 05:00:42 am »
Ever think that perhaps Virus DEA earned those points?

If we really want to make the "point gap" so much smaller, how about we do this: Each time a clan wins a CB, every other clan gets 9/10ths of the points that clan gained for the CB. That would keep things nice a close.

Perhaps over on the Ghost Recon ladder, where there are loads of weak clans, it's easy to win 6 CBs for each loss, but over on the less active Rogue Spear ladder, where you would be forced to CB multiple top clans during that 6 CB stretch, it's a little bit harder.  
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« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2003, 10:21:24 am »
why you guys have to complicate things so much...its a point system...

3 points for a win, nothing if u loose...

Wheres the tactical ladder play come into that?

with only being able to cb a clan 3 times...

keeps it tight, competitive etc etc...i dont understand why you look to help people who start late in the season...if they have only just formed then they should play a whole season.

but atm clans like c| BTs could sit the whole thing out til 30 days left then get cbs in against the top clans...easy no.1 spot.

just my opinion, im sure as ever someone will nitpick.

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« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2003, 05:21:11 pm »
IT is simple really. If you are able to beat the guys who are higher ranked, then you will become higher ranked and thus have more points.  If you are unable to beat the guys who are lower ranked, then you will go down in rank and also lose points.  

Why must the #1 clan of the season, be the #1 clan at the start of the season?! With this way, if a mediocre clan improves their tactics and team work, they could conceivably become #1 at the end. Remember, you are actually battling for those top 6 positions. If you feel you can't stay #1 because of the unfairness of the ladder, then shoot for #6.

With the Rogue Spear ladder it is easier to make it to the top 6 because there are less clans.  Its been 17 days in to the season and only 6 clans have even cbed once.  With Ghost Recon it is much different. There are a lot more clans and I suspect there will be more and more scrambling for position as the finals near.
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« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2003, 07:17:22 pm »
The Ghost Recon Ladder is filled with newbies.

Valdar, I want to see you go 24-4 when you can only CB against MP, Virus, and BTs.

Over on the RS ladder, things are a bit more difficult, there are far less newbie clans to take out for points.

Quote
IT is simple really. If you are able to beat the guys who are higher ranked, then you will become higher ranked and thus have more points.? If you are unable to beat the guys who are lower ranked, then you will go down in rank and also lose points.?

I personaly don't consider "beating the guys who are higher ranked" going 6-1 against them. That's like saying to beat a clan you have to win 6-1 - Are we going to add a new rule that says "The winner is the clan that has over 6 times the ammount of games won as the loser"? 6-1 is fair against weak clans, but when you're CBing the best clans, it's a little bit harder.

Quote
Why must the #1 clan of the season, be the #1 clan at the start of the season?! With this way, if a mediocre clan improves their tactics and team work, they could conceivably become #1 at the end. Remember, you are actually battling for those top 6 positions. If you feel you can't stay #1 because of the unfairness of the ladder, then shoot for #6.

Ok, what the hell are you talking about? Come with me, and take a look at the Rogue Spear Ladder.

Dr and mi are tied, each with 70 points.

Mi is 4-0.

Dr is 1-0.

Mi has beaten: Dark, Dark, TF6, TF6.

Dr has beaten: TF6.

Dr's TF6 win cancels out one of Mi's TF6 wins in the comparison, leaving the difference between the two clans at a 3-0 record.

Is 3-0 somehow the same as 0-0?  [/color]
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« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2003, 07:32:50 pm »
You can't make such "milchbubirechnungen" Typhy because TF6 had already less points when they lost against mi. If mi would have beaten Tf6 before Dr beat them Dr would be behind mi! However when Dr and mi meet in a cb the better will win and get points. It's simple as that.

Just play some cb against different opponents and the skill point system will give you are review how good or bad you have done.

Bye,

Mauti
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