About the CQB Mod...

[Mr. Lothario]

     You've *technically* done the right thing. There's a difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. You've adhered to one and violated the other. ::shrug:: Now that it has been made clear that the files in the |MP| Mod are not up for grabs and not approved for use in Mainman's mod, the fact that you maintain that you've done nothing wrong at any point is rather silly.

[Fusion]

What are you talking about man.. Didnt you just read that his mod will not be supported till it does not contain any MP files? Cause that is what I just wrote and that is what I talked to Bucc about.

Please read carefully before you post. Geez people this is a little irrotating when you dont read what is posted. There are alot of people that want to play this type of MOD. Its more of the Rogue Spear type gameplay, AND I SAID THAT THE LADDER WILL NOT BE STARTED TILL THE VERSION THAT DOES NOT CONTAIN MP FILES IS RELEASED. Now stop, go back and re-read the last sentence. Please understand that I do not want to upset anyone, even the MP guys. I personally could careless about the guns, well maybe a modded mp5 for a better gameplay. So anyway WE AGREED NOT TO START THE LADDER UNTIL WE HAVE A VERSION OF THE CQB MOD THAT DOES NOT CONTAIN MP FILES.

I would ask that if you have a problem with us hosting the CQB MOD. Post it in our forums not here. THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO TALK ABOUT THE BTL(sorry once again Mauti. I truly am trying to get people to respect you and your work). You know where to go and post your problems.

Now I hope this is a lesson to all thoughs MOD makers out there. And please stop acting like we did you wrong Loth, we have done everything to make MP happy, atleast that is the impression i got from Bucc.

[MAINMANV.2.0]

Well said.. And heres a follow up i released the 1.2 version and its now on 2 download sources for public download with some .txt files loth should read.


More info is at the cqb website.

[Mr. Lothario]

     After trying for several days, I finally was able to download the CQB Mod version 1.2, the one expunged of all stolen data. Lo and behold, what do I find? All the |MP| Mod files are still in the mod! What's more, despite mainman's assurance that "i would like you to know [the |MP| Mod files] are not active" in his "Formal Appol (sic)" file, the files are indeed active and being used! ::gasp of shock and dismay!::

     Fusion has claimed repeatedly that the CQB mod will not be used by BTs until it is free of all stolen data. The stolen data is still intact.

     In summary, mainman continues to be a lying, stealing moron who's wading in the shallow end of the gene pool.

[crypt]

how about mainman puts some kind of reference in his CQB mod, referencing the MP mod and the hard work put in by Loth and MP, then mainman puts some of his own work into the mod, and then everyone should be happy.

[S.p.i.d.e.r.]

If you cared to read the earlier posts in this thread, the time for something as simple as that has passed. Mainman fucked up, not suprising though?

[Guest]

Just to let you guys know, the cqb talk is located at the BTL Forums.

[Mr. Lothario]

     There's no discussion going on at their forum, mainman. Heh, "Guest". There's just another take on this same exact discussion. However, in the interest of full disclosure to all interested parties, here's the link to the thread.

[Mr. Lothario]

     OK, fun little PM log here. Color added for ease of reading, but it's otherwise unmodified except for the bracketed note at the end.

mainman.CTs: Have a sec
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Possibly. What do you want?
mainman.CTs: i.e. the CQB Mod i want this solved
mainman.CTs: With out calling each other bastereds...
mainman.CTs: ok?
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: You fucked up from day one. There's no way to solve it now. But I will drop it if you actually remove all of my files and data from your mod.
mainman.CTs: well, please picture it from my perspective
mainman.CTs: I understand why r offended.. But you getting way 2 far off the diving board...
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Hmm, no. You're totally in the wrong.
mainman.CTs: I tryed removing all the files...
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: My reasons for being angry are quite clear and have been presented to you several times. The way you can salvage what little of your dignity remains has been presented to you.
mainman.CTs: what did i miss?
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Yet you did not do it.
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Try ALL OF THEM.
mainman.CTs: Ok now ur being stupid...
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Nearly every single file from the |MP| Mod is still in your mod.
mainman.CTs: well, as i said i used ur mod as a guide..
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Reading a book to learn from it and copying the book and slapping your name on it are two different things.
mainman.CTs: Mr. Loth i cant re making the Mod folder till the newversion comes out..
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: You said that version 1.2 did not have any of my files in it. Yet, it has all of them.
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: You lied again.
mainman.CTs: Ok shoot me, i missed what files with the same name?? I tryed my hardest 2 remove them..
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: I just did a search.
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: There are 637 files named mp_* in your mod.
mainman.CTs: Loth.. frankly alot of people dont care about this... seems you are most offended and i see why... They just want to play
mainman.CTs: They care less about this argument..
mainman.CTs: mp stands for muliplayer.... as i c... thats what some other dude told me.. im not quite sure
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: And a whole lot of people do care about it, including all of several clans.
mainman.CTs: several?
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Actually, mp_ stands for "|MP| Mod", as in "I MADE IT SO DON'T FUCKING USE IT."
mainman.CTs: want do u want me 2 do about it, start being alittle more helpful or nothing will change
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: I. Want. You. To. Remove. Them.
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Like you promised. Like you should have done before ever releasing it.
mainman.CTs: Well i didnt know mp_also ment ur clan..
mainman.CTs: Cant i just give u credit thats all i can do about now...
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: If, as you claim, you used my mod as a learning tool, then you should have noticed that there are no files named mp_* in the original data files. Therefore, I created them.
mainman.CTs: i allrdy said sry.. looks like ur cold hearted enough 2 say FU agian..
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: I don't care if you're sorry. I think I've made that pretty clear.
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: You stole from me and, when caught, tried to say it was ok.
mainman.CTs: Caught?
mainman.CTs: i was never hiding it in the first place
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: You have one path of action open to you, and that is to completely remove every bit of data that I created from your mod.
mainman.CTs: Why should i do that agian?
mainman.CTs: Mb if i miss another file i get 2 hear u bitch some more?
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: YOU MISSED 637 FILES.
mainman.CTs: THEY WERE REMADE
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Bullshit. They have the same modification dates as my copies, and they show up as Tex-Edit files. Meaning, they're my fucking files.
mainman.CTs: for god sakes i loved ur MP mod.. it got me into modding hell, i even hosted it and play it with you.. i dont wana show any disrespect for the mod or the crater.
mainman.CTs: well then.. if their urs.. delete them
mainman.CTs: the mod will still work
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: If you want to make your own mod, make your own mod. Stealing from me is not the same thing.
mainman.CTs: stealing
mainman.CTs: it was never copywritted it the 1st place
mainman.CTs: u would never win in the court
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: You don't understand this at all, do you? You're using every last one of my files.
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Delete them, and your mod falls apart.
mainman.CTs: Not that im saying i wantd to steal..
mainman.CTs: No it doesnt
mainman.CTs: the only thing on ur mod.. were the remade pistols
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Copyright is implicit. I don't have to explicitly state it. I created it, therefore it is mine unless I say otherwise.
mainman.CTs: yes u do..
mainman.CTs: Their no point of copywritting if its allrdy copywritted..
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: ::shrug:: Think what you like. I'll say it again. Remove my files. Not change them, remove them. I know what you'll try.
mainman.CTs: which is?
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Renaming them and claiming that they're not the same files.
mainman.CTs: Are u paying for this?
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Paying for what, pray tell?
mainman.CTs: Does non-profit mean something 2 u
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: Do you honestly think that that defense will work in this situation?
mainman.CTs: ya know what.. people love the mod the way it is.. frankly BTs is favoring my side and supporting the mod with the non-active files.. and if worst comes 2 worst the BTs wont host it.. ill will host it... you will not win.. ill promise you that.
mainman.CTs: 2 many people love this mod
mainman.CTs: over and out
|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: I created my mod for the community, because I wanted to. I put in many hours of work on it. You're damned right that I'm pissed that you simply stole my work. [He had logged off immediately after sending the "over and out" message.]

[c| Splinter]

Little off the topic, but from a legal perspective something is technically copyrighted once to hits a recorded medium (i.e. audio recording, videotape, datafile (such as this case), even a pen on paper).  What most people think of copywriting is actually the process of registering a copyright.  So even though Loth didn't make a readme file that said ?2003 Mr. Loth,  and send it to the copyright office, it still is copyrighted.

It's too bad, because I think the idea of a CQB league sounds like a lot of fun, but they way it was implemented taints the whole thing.

[Mr. Lothario]

     The faintly ironic thing about this situation is that I agree with you, Splinter. A CQB league sounds like a great idea.

[bronto]

Mainman....he's the brightest crayon in the box. About the copywriting, i think once your name is on it than it's automatically copyrighted. I think that when you want to sell things under a business name then you have to go to a copyright office type thing or something...im pretty blazed. Anyway, mainman is obviously delusional and seems to think he and his (Loths) mod are the shit, but in actuality, contrary to what he believes

mainman.CTs: Loth.. frankly alot of people dont care about this... seems you are most offended and i see why... They just want to play
mainman.CTs: They care less about this argument..

alot of people do care about it (i for one, just didn't think it was necesary for me to post when there was already such a high ratio against MM), and it's not going to be tolerated. Like loth said, mainman is totally in the wrong, and by lying even more he's just proving he has no respect for other peoples work. Mainman is just digging himself into a deeper hole.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Splinter has this pretty much dead on as far as copyrights goes.  A copyright is in effect the first time a work is created and saved in any format (so the first time you save the file on your computer for us).  

Created is the important word there too.  Since mainman didn't create, but just copied, he can save till his heat is content, and it will never be his work.

But, let's face it.  This isn't going to court.  We have to be a self policing group here.  So, if you believe that this kind of activity is wrong, that he shouldn't just get away with using all of Loth's files, you need to show that support.  Me, I'll put anyone I see using the mod on the ignore list.  That will get the message across if they can't find any other games to play.  

[Brain]

you know, at fist i thought mainman was just trying to be an asshole, but after that pm conversation, i'm starting to think that he is lacking the intelligence to realize he is in the wrong on this

[pro mainman!]

wow!!

no idea how often i copied source code from diferent homepages...
and like mainman i used these codes for learning html.....

since then i did a lot of files completly on my own, but im still copy/past some stuff from the code into mine.....
am i now a stealer like mainman!??!?

"|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: I created my mod for the community, because I wanted to."

u did this mod for the ghr community, and one of them took this mod, and enhanced it....like i mostly did with my html files when i learned html....

i really dont care if there are files from mp mod or not......mp mod was the basis, and got enhanced
-------> a new mod has been created!

thats all i have to say!!
clam down! ill play this mod, either on the btl, or on another ladder.....i dont care!!!!

[crypt]

this is so stupid,  just resolve it somehow, mainman you should take it off, or just see if loth will let  you help you in a next version of the MP mod or something, this debate is  just gonna get longer and longer as you guys start to argue more  and more.


pretty much, just stop!!!

[Brain]

Hmm...Mainman, who the hell are you trying to fool?  Can't you realize that the more you fight this issue and attempt to get away with blatant thievery the less the community is supporting you?   It should be obvious to you considering that you had to make up this pro mainman character so that you could try and create the illusion that there is someone out there who actually is on your side.  Rapid has tried this trick way to many times for it to work on us any more.   Also, you are the only person who has shown interest in this subject that spells 'you' , 'u'.

But enough of that, time to address your argument...

wow!!

no idea how often i copied source code from different homepages...
and like mainman i used these codes for learning html.....

 Ok, that is valid and legal behavior, as long as you use the copied source for REFERENCE!

since then i did a lot of files completly on my own, but im still copy/past some stuff from the code into mine.....
am i now a stealer like mainman!??!?

To answer your question, yes you are a thief (the proper term for it).  You took something, in whole or in part that was not your work you then modified it, however there were still fragments of the original code left intact (you said you copy/pasted).   Once you claimed that the result was your work you committed a copyright violation.   Even if there is one line of original code left in your work, you must still GIVE THE ORIGINAL AUTHOR CREDIT!  
Had we been talking about a paper, what you have done would be called plagiarism.  You're in school now aren't you mainman?  Then I'm pretty sure you know damn well you need to properly cite all your sources in a paper.  The same goes for websites and mods.  Cite your sources or you are no better than a common thief.

"|MP|Mr.Lothario?.NF: I created my mod for the community, because I wanted to."

u did this mod for the ghr community, and one of them took this mod, and enhanced it....like i mostly did with my html files when i learned html....

Lothario made this mod for the community to use, not to abuse.   No where has he ever given any permission for you (or anyone for that matter) to use any |MP| mod files.
this mod was his contribution to the community, and he deserves credit.  You deserve nothing, not even the dignity of being addressed as a human being.
I already covered the issue with how this relates to html code.

i really dont care if there are files from mp mod or not......mp mod was the basis, and got enhanced
-------> a new mod has been created!

copy and paste or drag and drop enhances NOTHING!
You have taken all of his hard work and done PRACTICALLY NOTHING to improve it or modify it.  If you had re-tweaked all the gun kits, that would be a much different issue, but there is no way you could have. I know for a fact how much effort went into this mod before the public even knew of it's existence.  It took months to get the current settings right.  Even IF you had done any work I would expect at least 2 to 3 weeks of play testing to confirm your settings for the first mod.  The revision and the original were released  within what, a span of 3 weeks total? If that?

A new mod has not been created, rather an old one had been hijacked.
By the way, congratulations about not caring. It takes a brave (or foolish) man to stand alone.  I suspect you are the latter.

thats all i have to say!!
clam down! ill play this mod, either on the btl, or on another ladder.....i dont care!!!!

Well, good, than i can look forward to never hearing your foolish prattle ever again.
I do care.  I helped Loth on that mod as a beta tester.  Everyone  in |MP| did.  You didn't just steal Loth's hard work but all of ours (mainly Loth's though).  That is why we have been so adamant about you taking Loth's files.  That is why we wont calm down, and that is why we will hound you until every last bit of Loth's data is gone from that pile of rubbish that you so jokingly call a mod.

I hope you have fun playing your mod on your own private ladder. I just hope that your imaginary allies can shoot, because you certainly wont find any help from me...                            



I'd like mauti to confirm that this is Mainman, just so he cant weasel out of this[/color]

[Mr. Lothario]

     Speaking of Mauti, over on the BTs forum, Nova said that *DAMN might be supporting the CQB mod in an official league, or possibly he meant that they'll be hosting the file. Sorry about the ambiguity; my Stupid-to-English dictionary isn't helping me much on this one.

     I hope to see Mauti's assurance that *DAMN is not expressing support for mainman's mod.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Actually Brain, it sounds more like BTs Nova then mainman to me.  Just because it looks very close to his post on their forums.

In either case, it's someone that doesn't have the balls to actually post under their real handle, which really makes that oh so much more lame.

[pro mainman!]

sry guys, in neither Mainman himself nor BTs Nova.....

im just supporting mainman.......

yeaaaaaaaah, there are ppl who are supporting him!!!! omg!!! :shocked:

concerning the html code:

if i copy/past a special script, then i meight eb voilating a copyright by someone, but like in html u are using some basic files, or "code" over and over again!

like the header in html files, u can see this tag in mostly source code of a homepage! and everyone is just editing it, as he needs it.......so everyone whos using this tag is a thief?!!? :lol:

there are some basic files in ghr, like sounds of weapons, and the weapons itselves......
u have no chance to re-write these files, if u havent done this before....
and even if u re-write them....u will have to type mostly the same stuff again, in order to get the weapon, as it should be.....

thats why i`m on mainmans side!! u need some basic stuff, to build a bigger mod.....the basic stuff meight come from the mp mod, but otherwiese he can just take it from the ghr data folder....

sry that u heard from me again!