Acri's discovery of the glitches in Dedust

[BTs_GhostSniper]

this isnt a simple tree glitch, or a oops, I am in the corner of the wall glitch.  This is a omfg I am inbetween the wall glitch and can shoot anyone from any part of the map with my bullets going right thru any wall on the map glitch.  I doubt you will find one like that on a regular GR or DS map.  

Look, I have seen nearly every glitch on every map in the game.  Don't tell me what I know and don't know.  I went around with people on just about every glitch you can find just so I know where they are so that I can avoid being killed by people who are using those glitches.  I actually made strategy out of knowing where people using those glitches can and can't hit.  And don't give me any crap about there not being glitches this bad in the original maps, because that is just plain BS.  I can show you a glitch on Day Castle where you can do the EXACT SAME THING....actually go into a wall and kill anybody on the map from there.  There is another glitch like that one on the Small River map.  Point is, these glitches are everywhere and there just isn't anything you can do about them except know where they are, and challenge people that you think are using them.

Enough!  The maps stay!

-GhostSniper Out.

[Aramarth]

I vote for the maps to stay.. I vote for DBL Map Pack version 2 to also stay...

I see what the problem is here. It is very similar to the issue which got BTs banned. Guys, releasing the packs without testing was not my fault, and I think it was a mistake. Now, we try to fix this, and you tell us that THIS is a mistake. It is a perfect parallel in fact. That which has been done may have been wrong and regrettable, but why is that a reason to stop any future advances? Since when, oh great and all-knowing supporters of these flawed maps, has PROGRESS been a MISTAKE? If we start ignoring every problem we see because "it was that way to begin with even over your protests" NOTHING will EVER get better! Can't you see that?

If you like the map, fine. Your call. On this league, however, I and others are trying to make an effort to improve things. If improvement isn't what you want, then don't ever let me hear you complaining, you hypocritical little punks.

Ara

[BFG]

Don't tell me what I know and don't know.

Nobody did... But if you allready konw about everything thats great. Its nice to know that your capable of knowing everything, If anyone could please show me the art of allowing me to know what i don't know id much appreciate it... Thing is i don't know about things i have no knowledge of untill someone gives me that knowlege.

so I know where they are so that I can avoid being killed by people who are using those glitches.

... thats great!!. oh but hold on... i though you just said you could

....actually go into a wall and kill anybody on the map from there

 ... so can u go in and kill everyone or go in and kill everyone exept if know where to avoid it?

 Point is, these glitches are everywhere and there just isn't anything you can do about them except know where they are, and challenge people that you think are using them.

says who? Why shouldn't we try? who give you the fucking say on this?

Enough!? The maps stay!
The MAP PACKS stay with all maps included!

Oh no. sorry guys the discussion is over. its obviously not open for discussion and to all those that put time aside to help try and inprove the BL can piss off.... Ghostsniper has decided so for the next season which he won't be allowed to play we must totally ignore this and just piss about with replays and glitch issues...

If you like the map, fine. Your call. On this league, however, I and others are trying to make an effort to improve things .

... And right now from someone who is banned from the BL for the next season it seems a little rash to be throwing your 'decisions' about.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

And right now from someone who is banned from the BL for the next season it seems a little rash to be throwing your 'decisions' about.

Exactly.  I am banned from playing on the Ghost Recon Team Ladders, but NOT the Ghost Recon FFA Ladder.  Am I correct in that or not?  Please tell me oh great all powerful admin.

Sorry, just havn't had any really warm fuzzy feelings about certain admins lately.

Peace.

-GhostSniper Out.

P.S.  I'm gonna fucking OWN you guys in the FFA ladder next season....see you on the battlefield.

[Noto]

Wow... You guys do have lives, correct?  "There be some strange commotion 'o' bitchin' in these here parts!"

You could glitch at any wall of any map in rogue spear... and yet, no map was ever deemed unplayable because of cheating, because no one ever cheated.

No one ever cheated... lol...  Yeah, okay.  Never use words like 'never', 'ever', or 'always' unless you are sure it will not be proved incorrect.  To say that no one ever cheated in RS is completely false.

what im slightly confused about is if people knew about these issues before now... Why didn't they say!

Actually, I posted in the Admin section awhile ago about a few different maps in the map packs and their vulnerability to be taken advantage of by cheaters.  Needless to say it did not raise enough eyebrows because every map in GhR (old and new) has an inordinate amount of glitches, i.e. programming errors.

Come to think of it, I think the glitches were mentioned before, but no one responded to it a while back. For me the most crucial glitching maps shouldn't be played during a cb. But don't forget the normal Ghr maps also have some of these glitches...

Ah, someone who remembers the public discussions as well.  Sentinel also points out the fact that the original maps are equally as buggy.

Well, I am glad that you think that, but the simple fact is that people will use them.  the simple issue is that the rules for BL state that a clan that is caught glitching twice in a cb will be counted as a forfiet.  Well, what about that one time.  Basically it is stating that they are allowed to get away with something like that.  personally I dont think these maps should be allowed.  By allowing these maps you are basiclaly stating that it is ok to glitch once, which in my opinion is a load of shit.

Sab, people still use the glitches in the old maps, which is why we still hear about them.  Also, the current warning point system was developed by the Admins of this league in regards to being 'allowed' to glitch once without harsh consequence, other than warning points.  Perhaps it would be easier to simply make the punishment more severe for those who partake in cheating, while the rest of us have fun playing a variety of maps that the original game did not include.  Let's make sure we're not throwing out the proverbial baby and its wretched bath water.

Dude, there are glitches like this on a BUNCH of the Ghost Recon maps, old and new alike.

Very good point here.  Does anyone want to take a guess as to how many glitches there are in the following maps?

?   Embassy
?   Airbase
?   Castle Day (& Night)
?   Red Square
?   Night Battle
?   Small River
?   And many more...

Seriously, the maps packs were created to help this league and the GhR ladders to thrive.  By removing the new maps we're taking a serious step backwards.

You boys are missing the point. There aren't nearly the same amount of issues on the other maps.

Perhaps those who tested should present a list of all glitches on all maps for GhR.  When that is presented to the public, then it will be obvious.  Until then, most will find it difficult to listen to reason when they have been provided absolutely no proof other than NetFone conversations that they were not even a part of.  Please post all glitches for every single map for GhR.  There will be no other way to please the public until this is done.

My question is this:  Since the introduction of the new map packs, how many accusations of glitching or cheating in a CB have actually surfaced concerning these new maps?  I beg the Admins of the previous two seasons to introduce a number of times the new maps were involved in such instances.  It's probably safe to say that there was more bitching about glitching in Airbase in Season 5 than all of the new maps combined over the past two seasons.  As it stands right now, the current witch hunt we have found ourselves in is only raising blood pressure, not solutions.  And no, taking the maps out completely really isn't a solution.  We wouldn't want to stifle the already diminishing GhR ladders anymore than they have to be.

The worries of the few are outnumbered by the desires of the many.  Do not forget that.

.::|N| Noto

[Acri]

In my opinion, Dust is not a part of Ghost Recon.

And something that differs Dust from other maps:

THESE GLITCHES ARE USED FREQUENTLY!! I am NOT kidding!

I host one of the most popular game rooms and it is being used VERY often!

It HAS been used against us in CBs!

Sure, Dust can stay, but I think everyone should be aware so:

Today (Saturday) at 8 PM GMT I will demonstrate the glitches for all that are curious. The password for the room will be "forge"

[theweakspot]

It's better now that we know these glitches exist.  I for one, had no idea that these existed and just wonder how many times they were used against me.

We know ALL the maps contain some sort of glitch, but the glitches in De_Dust are of epic proportions.  You can literally take out someone on 75% of the map by standing inside a wall where you can't be hit.

As far as it being removed, well-- now that everyone knows where the glitches are who in their right mind would use it against other clans in battle?  It only takes a replay to show whether it was used or not.

If you are dead set against not using the map pack, then when you begin a CB get the opposing clan to agree not to use them, or agree to the maps you will use.  That might be the only logical solution until these maps are fixed, if ever.

I guess it comes back to what is seemingly lacking these days on the BL-- sportsmanship.  Clans or players that are willing to win at any cost will use any means to win, including using glitches or cheating in some similar form.

Those clan that are just in it for a fair and hard fought game will know the glitches exist and choose not to use them.  Winning isn't everything-- not on the BL.  Well, at least not for * clan.

[Saberian 3000]

Weakspot, I can agree with that.  Although because the issue with the glitches is soo bad on these specific maps that I cant see how it could ever be used reliably.  the problem is that it might not be used for killing the enemy but used to find out where they are.  True Dedust can be covered by the sensor but to physically see the person is quite another matter.  The map only tells you so much of where they are.  It dosent tell you what they are doing or what they have placed on the floor.  All someone has to do is use this glitch to just peer into the wall and voila.  I perfect see far mod to be used againt the enemy.  That is my main issue with it.  There are many things it should be used for but the idea is to not to have to worry about that.  Plus why would you want the map in anyway if no one actually plays it.  Let's just take out the glitchy maps.  Maps like this shouldnt have to be worried about in a game by any team.  The should be able to rest assured that the maps that they are getting into are fair for both sides.  And when one team plays fair and the other does not, it destroys the value of a league that is all based mainly on rules trying to make it impartial and fair.

:MoD:Saberian

[BTs_eight]

My point is...

When we bring this issue up we get told to deal with it....
How come all of a sudden this is a problem? Because we didn't bring it up?  But hey when we say something is wrong... its "bunch of whiners"...

I for one have lost a bunch of games due to some fuckt up new map choices.... I dealt with it... anytime someone shot us and we didn't know where it came from we then ask for a replay... and if it was a glitch or we thought it was.. we can then bring it up to the admins...

I say lets all know the glitches now that we played with em when forced to play with them when it was most important.... Now that were in between seasons... lets keep the # of maps... AND lets get to know the problem... if it was RvS then i would say "hey remove the maps..."
Only for the simple fact that rvs does not have a replay function....

So... we keep the maps... we then keep the enemy guessing... and we make sure we know the problem and learn how to not get into those situations where replays will be called... if called... then the admins themselves can take a look an decide if maybe they should add this to a glitch list... or decide it was a clean kill...

as for me posting on this issue even though i am banned i have had a bit of experience with cbs... and maybe i thought i could shed some light into how we were told to "deal with it" and how we "dealt with it"...

I just think that all these maps are alot to learn so some clans will favor some more then others.... keeping each clans game... up to par..

[Aramarth]

How come all of a sudden this is a problem? Because we didn't bring it up?  But hey when we say something is wrong... its "bunch of whiners"...

Eight, come off it. Do you want to know why this was handled in the way that it was? The number one clan came off its high horse and spoke with the number two clan, face to face, and discussed the issue. No one flamed, posted using capital letters, or was misunderstood. The conversation took the form of "hey check out this crap!"

If you really believe that your clan's discussion of the same issue would have met with more criticism than we have recieved (which is a good deal), then maybe it is time to consider attitude and tone of voice.

A guy can recover from calling his friend a moron with minimal tact. The same statement, if coming from a rival, causes hard feelings. Maybe it is time for some in our community to think about whether they present themselves as friends or winning-supercedes-all competitors. Each has its strong points, but they really do not overlap.

Ara

[BTs_GhostSniper]

posted using capital letters,

LOL....SINCE WHEN IS POSTING IN CAPITAL LETTERS A CRIMINAL OFFENSE???

[Acri]

How come all of a sudden this is a problem? Because we didn't bring it up?  But hey when we say something is wrong... its "bunch of whiners"...

The number one clan came off its high horse and spoke with the number two clan, face to face, and discussed the issue.

I am sad to inform you that the famous Zero Trotting-horse has died from an overdose. He was tripping on ego with me in an open room and things got out of hand... On the other, it was the best darn ego trip ever.

                 - Narcissistically yours, Acri

Edit: Typo corrected.

[Noto]

Edit: Typo corrected.

What about the grammatical errors?  

.::|N| Noto

HEY ARMARTH!1!!!1! OMG WTF LOL HOW R U DONG THIS EVENNG IN DA VIEDO GME WORLD
?!???!?!! WTF  

[Aramarth]

HEY ARMARTH!1!!!1! OMG WTF LOL HOW R U DONG THIS EVENNG IN DA VIEDO GME WORLD
?!???!?!! WTF  

rofl noto!

[[one] Gambit]

One problem I immediately see is if there are so many possible glitches on Dust, for example, it would be almost impossible for a clan to make a reasonable assessment of whether or not glitching was going on during the 30 seconds after a game, which is when accusations of glitching are supposed to be discussed and replays asked for on the previous game. Do we just make an exception for Dust and require hosts to save ALL games playe don that map for later review by both sides?

I personally like the variety all the new maps provide, but if I have to wonder everytime I play the map now if the person who killed me was glitching because I didnt see him before I died, I'm not sure it's worth it.

[Stripes]

hello i just wanted 2 say, keep ALL MAPS in the DMP , and like gambit said, get replays.. why make a map for the bl and then ban it ?

In my eyes there is np playing these (this) - we could just take replays of em.



fA][Stripes

[Aramarth]

I'm just curious, even after several posts explaining why it isn't just

why make a map for the bl and then ban it ?

why must people keep typing that. A poor decision (lack of testing in this case) in the past cannot be used as a reason to halt proper solutions. Thats just stupid. Hasn't anyone around here ever heard that two wrongs do not make a right?

Ara

[BTs_GhostSniper]

I'm just curious, even after several posts explaining why it isn't just

why make a map for the bl and then ban it ?

why must people keep typing that. A poor decision (lack of testing in this case) in the past cannot be used as a reason to halt proper solutions. Thats just stupid. Hasn't anyone around here ever heard that two wrongs do not make a right?

Yes, two wrongs DO make a right!  lol

Now, as for the map....I say leave it!  People know there are glitches, and should now know where they are.  So if you think someone has glitched, just ask for a replay.  No need to ban any map.

Now MAKE IT SO!

-GhostSniper Out.

[Toxic::Joka]

What discovery?? I haven't seen anything at all, you guy must have forgotten to give me the memo.. .

I never had any problems with de_dust, hard to belive that what ever the dicovery might be, it's worth banning the whole map..

[Noto]

I was wondering if a list could be provided before the maps get yanked?

.::|N| Noto

A list of glitches of course...