Part 2 Season 5: Game modes, competition ladders and more

[one Rampage]

thanx for replying to my post so quickly guys. previous to writing my last post i had read every single post in regards to this topic and as u have seen my previous posts have a different angle to them, than i have now. i have played warzone and as i said, i quite like it..but i still feel that the "nerve" of the game somewhat gone(not totally ofc.)

im not being negative. and i do like a change for the better, but i dont feel this is. i will keep an open mind on this and play even MORE warzone games. i'm not against it, i just like LMS better, but could also be a matter of taste.
[one] will dl the mod and serve it. i'll be the first to tell ya if i change my mind ;-)

[one]Rampage

live everyday as if its your last

[[TRIBE]Meatwagon]

why not have two ladders, warzone and lms?its too bad assasination couldnt be traded off between teams and not a random decision. cause that would be a good game for the ladder. one team hunts and the other team defends(not a paticular spot, but a guy). i still like lms as the real ladder choice.

[Aramarth]

LeeHarvey, I am sorry man but you don't really know what you are talking about.  Wars last a long time, battles may last days or weeks, but individual engagements like those the Ghosts encounter last mere minutes.  Truthfully, the longer they last, the less the chances of survival are for special forces troops.  I said it before in my enormous post, and so I must repeat it, Special forces fight outnumbered almost exclusively, and they rely upon superior firepower and surprise to gain victory.

This means, for the lesser of mind, that they DO NOT have spare time.  Their job is to get in, win, and get out (or hide), because the other guy has 500 times their number, WITH armor and air support.

Sure, you don't run around like a maniac, but control of locations has always been the key to combat from roman times to today.  Not killing your enemy, and then making the rest of his unit find you.  War isn't fought that way.  The last thing a Ghost would do is leave evidence of their presence and then stick around for the consequences.

If it helps, think of it this way.  At the end of every cb's time limit, your enemy gets a full brigade of mechanized troops.  Your unit's goal was to simply slow their advance for evacuation to take place.  In this mindset, control of that location, an embassy, a road, a river crossing,an overlook, for as long as possible is what wins the day, not killing 4 men who will be replaced by greatly superior (albeit less elite) forces within minutes.

Don't feel like I am stomping on you man, I just have a unique educated viewpoint and am compelled to share it.  

[alaric]

Well said Aramarth.

This is a special forces game, not regular infantry (like america's army). Special forces move fast, hit hard, and then get the hell out.

What's more is warzone makes cbs fun to play in again, and that's more important to me than realism anyway. If you want true realism, join the army.

[Saberian 3000]

     Well, the more I think about it the more I like the Warzone idea in a way.  I think my main issue is giving up a gameplay that I have been so comfortable with.  But to be honest, if you were to not have respawns in Warzone, the only thing left would be an addition of a goal to the game which all in all would not be an unrealistic thing.  I have been looking over some of the comments in this post and I am starting to see how most people react to this change of gameplay.  I like the statement, if ya dont try it, dont bitch.  Well, it wasnt said like that but the meaning is the same.  It's like when Clinton won for presidency and people were all bitching about it.  That is the first time I thought about that saying cause it was put up on signs while entering the freeway's in California.  "If ya didnt vote, dont bitch!"   Well, as for Warzone, the same can easily be applied.  I do understand why a lot of people dont want to play Warzone.  The Same reason actually that most people stick with PC's in the end.  Most people dont like change and are too ignorant to change.  Part of human nature it seems.
     In the end, if someone makes a small mod that allows people to actually use their brain a little more, more power to it, just no respawns plz.  That would make the game more unrealistic.  Although it has been stated as well that there are some issues with certain maps.  Maybe those particular maps can be changed for Warzone, and the others be left the same.  In either event, maybe Warzone isnt a bad idea.  As long as their are no respawns to cheapen the game.

+MOD+Saberian

[[TRIBE]Meatwagon]

i played a bunch of warzone this weekend, and it is a fun game. i still like lms for the ladder though, but if warzone is instituted here is what i would do...score a point for the team that has the most guys left as well as a point for winning the warzone.. so if team A has more guys left and wins the time in warzone, they get two points. if team A wins warzone but team B has more guys left, its a split 1-1. the first team that gets to 10 wins overall. win by 2...lol..just a thought.

[Noto]

Quick views on some season 5 stuff.

I'm not sure if anyone has brought these points to light, but if they have I am sorry.  I didn't feel like reading seven pages of stuff to see if my point was made.

FIRST POINT:     If you have respawns, you will have spawn killing.

SECOND POINT:     If you have spawn killing, you will have to have spawn protection.

THIRD POINT:     If you have spawn protection, there will still be spawn killing.

FOURTH POINT:     Warzone definitely adds spice, but we choose in which manner a CB shall be played?  Ex:  Clans agree on a Warzone CB or a standard LMS CB.  Why add spice if you are going to take away the main course?

FIFTH POINT:     If players have to register with the BL, which would declare membership to a clan of course, can these members include their GameRanger Account numbers as well?  It just seems that certain folks out there are becoming more savvy with playing under different accounts for no apparant reason.  I'm not saying that Tom Foolery has occurred, but things have been suspect in the past.

SIXTH POINT:     If a CB is going to be a best of 7, then why not give the team who picks the map the choice to pick the style of play?  Whether it's LMS, Warzone, Siege, Assassination, HH, and others.  If you lose and pick the map, then you also get to choose how you play the map you picked, or perhaps if you pick the map, then the other team picks the style of play.  I think it's an option worth looking into.

SEVENTH POINT (FINAL POINT):     The camping issue must be resolved.  I think Warzone would be ther fairest means of conducting CBs.  You can win Warzone by taking the base and keeping it for 3 uninterrupted minutes, or eliminating the other team.  It basically keeps aspects of LMS and HH.  You can camp, but it wouldn't be as advantageous as it was in the past because you would have to trade off camping for losing the Warzone.  

My points are stated and hopefully were done so in a clear, concise manner.  Good luck to all in Season 5!

--- Noto

[BTs_Ch A oS]

I ubderstand that the debate continues, but when will we know if the WARZONE mod is taking over the DAMN BL format or if the pure LMS will continue?  Also, will there be a vote of some kind by clans or just Damn-associates or a decision by Mauti himself?  Just curious.  I am still trying out Warzone daily.

[BTs_eight]

Again my problem with warzone...

I just think this mod unless further updated is kinda usless...

You have no timer what so ever! You have no clue how much time you have left after 1 team has gotton the wz...
So the way i see it the more guys you have in a cb the more chances of one team loosing. Like fridge said in another post for a map like embassy. Spawn near the bank would have close to no chance of winning vs a team spawning next to the garage. So what do we do now?
Say oh well? just a chance you have to take?

Have any of you notice while playing on public servers how some teams always spawn in the same spot for 3-4 games in a row? how annoying would it be if your going into a cb and oh well there went your fighting chance bcause 5-6 spawns were against your favor. SO do you think this will make a team with higher ranking spot feel like cbnig at all because the odds might just be against him.....

Do we then say? We'll just stop using most of these fav maps like creekbed an stronghold and embassy because of this? Maybe red square too? cause that also could be a campfest on the outside.

In most finals games... yes the action slowed down. But it then became more of a chess game.... Usually 1 person gets a kill then its up to the other team to infiltrate. Unless the attacking team stayed on offense.

And i do know all those guys we played with in the finals... said to us an we said to them "GGs" no matter how much dislike or anger there was between clans because thats what happend, it all slowed down but then it became the battle of wits....

[Aramarth]

For those who really hate the lack of timer (not just eight in particular): think of this as another test of ability! When you get the message that the enemy has the warzone, have someone on your side (who can subtract really quick) designated to call out the game time and the time at which the game will end. I did this is a public server the other day, and my team sure stepped up, knowing how little time they had.

[Mr. Lothario]

In most finals games... yes the action slowed down. But it then became more of a chess game.... Usually 1 person gets a kill then its up to the other team to infiltrate.

     Say it like it is, Eight. They were campfests. You have bitched amazingly about camping in the past, and now you're relabeling camping and saying that it's hunky-dory. You can't have it both ways.

[Fridge]

Ok, why are you guys, not all of you, so determined to change ghr to model how you see it should be.  I just don't get it, look at the game and try to tell me it is a game designed to be played balls to the wall.  The truth of the matter is that it isn't, and the truth of the matter is that it is a GAME, a game should be played anyway that suits the player, to each their own, (cheating excluded).  Camping is a part of the game, camping is a part of every game, camping is a style of play and if people have fun doing it then let them do it because it is how the like to play, no game is meant to be played any specific way and so why are you determined to take fun away from people in order to further yours?  The other truth of the matter is that camping has and always will exist, and no matter what you can suggest, there will be a pro and negative side to it on camping and gameplay, in one respect it will seem to hinder it, in another it will seem to further it, why is this, because no matter what you do, no game will ever suit only one style of play and this is how it is meant to be.  You guys are going to take too much from the game, and I think that the majority of people are happy with the game as it is and feel no need to change it.  If you just can't handle a slower paced game than other shooters then might I ask why you play ghr, when it is clearly suited for such.  Banning sensors, you can say it will stop camping and force people out, sure you can look at it that way, but you can also look at it as it will allow campers an easier time by ensuring them invisiblity until they have a shot or take a shot.  Warzone you can say will force players to the middle, but will also encourage camping once the goal is obtained and it also poses the problem of adding a much larger degree of luck to the game.  What are the problems with the current game? nothing other than the fact that you feel there is too much camping in a game which seems largely designed for it.  It seems also that this is only an issue which people complain about in the finals, which compose so little of the season, and basically you're here willing to severly piss off at least half of the whole community and stomp on many peoples fun throughout the main body of the season, so that in the little time spent in the finals the few who make it can have a better shot at putting an avatar under their name saying *DAMN BL Champions.  You're losing sight of things here, the game is fine how it is.

[Civrock]

i totally agree...  

[Rampage]

No doubt m8, youre right. things have probably gotten a little out of hand, since the start of WZ convos. Like u and many people before me have said - dont fix it, if aint broken.

[Brain]

well, to play devil's advocate, if we dont make any changes, we will still have the same camping situation and 6 hour cb's that we did last season( and the season before)

[Saberian 3000]

Well Brain I think what he said about camping was completely missed by ya there, I have to completely agree with fridge, he is right.  The game should be the way it is.  No one will be completely satisfied with the outcome of the changes, and there will always be someone that bitches about the outcome of a cb

+MOD+ Saberian

[SAR(VoLaTile)]

Yeah, fridge is right, and if u complain about cb's taking too long cuz of camping then find someone who has enough time to play through the cb.

[Jeb]

In response to the fact that "people" want to change how the game is played...

The main reason warzone was suggested was because mauti thought it could have some potential to cut the length and camping in cbs. Then bucc started talking about warzone and it turned into an anti-mp fest,  some bullshit about people trying to change how the game is played, and that bucc has a plot to overthrow the internet.

I know bucc, and he doesn't care about warzone as much as you think, he was simply trying to address an issue that has been troublesome for the ghr ladder (camping). Bucc, Brain and I came up with the purse/skill points system thats being used next season,which will hopefully solve the issues that the skillpoints system had. Leaving the only other topic that people bitched about last season, which was camping and game length. Warzone is one option to address those problems, and i've seen a few other  good ideas. But if everyone hates it, its not the best direction for the battle league.

Before everyone rushes to judge me as an internet teen idol who takes bribes to voice opinions (actually that would be nice). just know that i don't support the warzone mod, i simply support the exchange of ideas in hopes of something great coming from them. I guess i'm not used to seeing such fanaticism against a suggestion.
-jeb

[Mr. Lothario]

     You're a whore, Jeb. If you'll recall, the initial idea of basing a points system on boxing prize purses was mine all mine.

[Fusion]

I think Fridge has hit it on the head.......

I think Jeb has a good point as well.
People should exchange Ideas, But lets try and respect others opinions, even if you dont agree with them.

LOL Loth.... You tell him......