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Author Topic: A new idea: I sure hope you all read this!  (Read 4131 times)
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Aramarth
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« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2003, 10:43:54 pm »

Well guys, I am working on the mod, but I sure would have liked to hear more opinions. So long as they aren't idiotic, "OMG i'm soo afraid of change" posts, that is.
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« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2003, 03:40:39 pm »

How about:

Whats the difference between this and the gameplay of domination?

what would happen when one team takes three zones then camps?
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« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2003, 08:02:18 pm »

Because Nara, once you have taken 3 zones, thats 3/5ths+ of the map, you have earned victory. You have mastery, the right to halt the advance to brethe because you are already winning. Instead of a single kill up on your enemy, now you have made visible progress, and you must hold a long front to maintain it.

On the other hand, that is a good point. What if, since my mod is merely a simpler version of domination, we try that for the BL standard? Domination is already made and bugless, it was part of DS! Give me opinions guys, I think it could work.  I haven't played dom with no spawns before...
« Last Edit: September 10, 2003, 08:04:48 pm by Aramarth » Logged

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Ssickboy
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« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2003, 08:59:26 pm »

this just occured to me...

Big downside of Domination...You know where your enemy spawns.  that takes away a lot of surprise.  But this is an assumption.  I haven't tried it.

Domination is used for some big PC ladders.  but as an option, where the challenged team gets to pick the game type.  
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« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2003, 09:41:05 pm »

     Domination in a CB environment--specifically, small games of usually no more than four or five players on a team--would cause more changes to gameplay than Warzone. Given the large size of most of the maps in the game, and also given that between render fog and obstacles/terrain your maximum range is very small in all but a few spots, using Domination for CBs would de-emphasize teamwork and require tactics based on lone wolves each holding a zone by themselves with no hope of backup of any sort.
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« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2003, 01:56:48 am »

Ah, but loth, are you forgeting that the smoke stays in your control when you leave, so you can move as a team. I guess upon giving it thought I do remember why I chose to propose a modified version domination in this thread. Dom calls for getting as much smoke as fast as possible. My idea only calls for taking it as a way to win if you are getting spawn camped, and you don't get points for how long you hold it but by whether you finish and still hold it. That makes sense doesn't it? Too much java homework...can not see... Sad


I ran a bunch of no spawn dom games after my last post, and they all ended in elimination. One of the matches, however, had the 5 smoke locations controlled by one team and would have resulted (by my proposed mod's conditions) in a map control victory. I stopped the game in hysterics- much to the annoyance of my players- until I managed to explain why. On the whole it was a good experience, and the fact that you know where the enemy starts only adds to the need for good strategy that you can execute quickly.
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« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2003, 02:55:16 am »

     I was forgetting the smoke-control point for awhile while posting that, Aramarth, but when it occurred to me, I didn't change the post. When I've played Dom (with spawns, however, which I'll touch on in a moment), smoke control was all-important, so defending the various smoke pillars was essential, so in Dom games with small teams, the teams were invariably split up and each man was operating independently. With no spawns, I'm not particularly surprised that each game ended in elimination. Dom imposes the same penalty in a no-spawn environment that Warzone does: when you nab the smoke, your position is given away automatically.

     One thing: I think you misspoke (mis-typed?). "My idea only calls for taking it as a way to win if you are getting spawn camped..." A, spawn camping really isn't much of a problem in no-spawn environments, and B, if you ARE getting spawn-camped, you're not going to be able to get out to capture smoke. : )
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« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2003, 05:22:00 am »

He meant what he typed, but in different terms.  As like one team camps near their own spawn waiting for opposition to come to them (spawn camping).  And creating the domination like smoke areas was to keep players on their toes.

Here is where everyone loses sight/focus.  Once you mention smoke and bases, the first thing most of us see are players capturing smoke areas and winning a game.  BUT smart teams would realize that crafty coordinated team play that moves and controls the map as a whole and in unison, would be the more dominating factor in the overall game while capturing the bases as they go (dominating the map is dominating the bases).  Capturing only the bases is just a patch job, and would be easily taken apart by a well coordinated team.
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Aramarth
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« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2003, 04:01:03 pm »

Thank you ssick, I am in your debt.
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« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2003, 08:51:35 pm »

     Ah, yes. My mistake; I always associate the term "spawn camping" with the offensive maneuver.

     It's a damn shame this is a Red Storm engine, or an actual mod would be possible instead of these silly half-assed attempts to force the engine to do something different. Aramarth has a great idea, but the engine's limitations will force it to be less than it could be. Optimally, it would still be about controlling territory, but it would actually keep track of how much territory (expressed as a percentage of the map, most likely) lies within your line, preferably with fog of war on the in-game score/stats display to encourage scouting. 'Course, this IS a Red Storm engine, which means Aramarth has to resort to bases to represent control of territory. Bleh.
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« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2003, 03:49:27 pm »

well look at the bag of worms i opened up  Grin

I don't care much either way, i liked the old system and i'll probably enjoy the new one that mauti has said he is going to put in place. This season might see the collective come top since i know they adapt well. And it will be the clan that learns to master both wz and lms that is the victor which i think is cool.

anyway, what about random smoke locations? can it be done?

If it can it would bring a whole new light to the mod because no certain spawn has an edge straight from the start, that is off course my concern with wz is that certain spawns can take the smoke within 10 seconds of start (which would give the team that does the camping advantage).
« Last Edit: September 12, 2003, 07:01:35 pm by Narauko » Logged

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« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2003, 04:56:52 am »

Seeing as Mauti has made his ruling, and hasn't posted here even to tell me I am a terrible person who shouldn't post for humanity's sake,</sarcasm> I am putting my mod on the back burner. Do not distress you few fans the of the idea, the mod will still be made. I just don't have a sense of urgency anymore.

Yeah, that first sentence is off-color for me, but one tries to believe that it isn't personal when no one in authority chooses to offer an appearance in any of one's several threads. Simply to hear from people even if they breathe fire at me is better than total lack of concern.</soapbox>

I have got to stop that. See you on gameranger people.
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« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2003, 10:35:13 am »

All in all a nice idea Aramarth. Well honestly I didn't read this thread before I made my ruling. However the reason to introduce WZ wasn't to introduce a complete new game style it was to make an advanced LMS version that reduces camping and forces both teams to advance.

Bye,

Mauti
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Narauko
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« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2003, 03:33:11 pm »

ok, surely theres a way to keep the smoke colour the same. Like in SOLO HH, the smoke stays the same but the game gives you the indication of who is in possesion (Gold Team have secured control point 3).

this would mean you wouldnt be able to see where your enemy spawns since all the smoke is the same color...

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« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2003, 03:46:22 pm »

Mauti that is exactly what I hoped to accomplish. However, instead of the smoke rush possibility which people fear about warzone, the whole map would be the objective instead of just the central point. (here's hoping you reply a second time)

Nara, there is certainly a way to do that, but that sort of thing depends upon how important the natives feel it is.
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« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2003, 06:11:18 pm »

From my experience  not many clans rush to the wz - they advance carefully to the zone and try to get the other team out of their defense position.

I think several zones are more inviting for a rush gamestyle because  the clan with the most conquered(reached) zones is almost for sure the winner contary to WZ where the central area is difficult to defend and all in all the kills mostly decide about winning or not.

However the wz creators are working on some additions/improvements.(visible timer and may I can persuade them to create a special BL version where the colours are correct).

Bye,

Mauti
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