War on Iraq: Bush is gettin pwned

[KoS PY.nq.ict]

See...ln...that's the line of thinking that lead to ww2 in the first place. Do you think saddam gives a shit about sanctions? What's to stop him from launching all his weapons of mass destruction? He's closely watched by what? Satellites? heh...that does a lot of good when you have nuclear weapons aimed up your ass.

Yes he is another nation's business. He's violated plenty of U.N. rules and crimes against humanity. That gives us the right to stick our nose in his business. How psychotic does one person have to be before people start realizing how dangerous it can become.

As for Iran. They're next.

[Cossack]

Iran next? What did they do except be Islamic Fundementalists? They even helped with the overthrow of the Taliban and have even given us intel. The only bad thing they have done is support a warlord in Western Afghanistan. The problem with Afghanistan's current government is that it fails to represent Shia Muslims. Iran feels like it is the protector of those that are of the Shia faith. They have definently not commited anything war worthy, and in my opinion nothing "axis of evil" worthy. Right now in Iran they are going through dramatic social change. The Mullahs are losing power and the government is becoming much more libral. It is true that they are building nuclear power plants, but it is with the aid of Russia. The Russians are keeping a close eye on Iran's nuclear aspects, hell the Russians are practically building it! Keep in mind I am not saying that Iran is an saint state or anything, I am just saying that they have done nothing to warrant invasion or sanctions.

   As for Iraq, they are no threat. Sadaam wants to stay in power more than anything. I want to see the overthrow of Sadaam dont get me wrong, but not by America's terms or method. North Korea is a more dire threat. Blackmailing the most economicly stimulating region in the world with nuclear weapons. They can launch it at Seoul, Tokyo, Taipei, Anchorage, and shortly maybe even Honolulu and Los Angeles. TUCK YOUR LEGS IN METH ITS GONNA BE A HOT ONE! Two empty sterile cannisters that could be used for chemical weapons. That is circumstancial. As for Sadamm killing his own population, if that is a pretext to invade, lets invade Russia for killing Chechens, lets invade China for killing Uighers and 30 million of its own people a year. Lets bomb the shit out of Saudi Arabia because it executes homosexuals. Vaporize the Mexicans for squashing revolts in Chiapas. Lets invade Turkey for killing Kurds just like Sadaam has done. The reason, because he is killing his own people is not a valid reason, considering there are other nations doing the same, if not even on a more massive scale ie Russia and China.

[KoS PY.nq.ict]

Think of this.....you stated in a previous post about us fighting two fronts and bush's economic plans....etc. etc. About how our resources will be strained


Yes those countries are doing that but we can only do so much. We're trying to protect the rights of human life. When someone violates that right they become a target. But we're limited in what we do. If the U.N. had brains they'd help us in cleaning up the corrupt politicians. But being corrupt politicians themselves it doesn't help the situation. Why say Saddam has done nothing wrong when he has in fact...YES ITS PROVEN...violated the weapons of mass destruction rule that was placed on him after Desert Storm?  The reason its there....TO PREVENT THE ASSHOLE FROM STARTING ANOTHER WAR. He's capable of doing it so whats to stop him from doing it again? Sanctions? HAH....U.N. slaps on the wrist? HAH. We need to do it. Is it the wrong time? Possibly. We should be more worried about our economy at the moment then shoving a gun in Saddam's ass. But that would be giving him enough time to construct his nuclear weapons. Again...IT'S BEEN PROVEN...HE HAS THE MATERIALS AND HE WILL MAKE THEM. Someone who knocks off a portion of their country's population is most likely to have means of making large scale weapons. Stop patting Saddam's ass and start reaming.

Iran. Yea they haven't done anything recently that's worthy of a war. But they do support terrorism. In fact...Osama could be hiding there right now. Since we're in a war on terrorism...we might as well finish the job.

Muslims hate us because we're Christian. They want to wage a holy war against us and jews. They think we're the spawn of satan.

Reason #1: Their religion teaches to hate Americans and their Christ loving ways. They're taught to hate anyone that doesn't practice their specific faith.

Reason #2: Their government teaches in schools and in mosques about how we're monsters and demons. Muslim religious leaders are more revered than any religious leader is revered in the Christian world. So hearing words of hate coming from their religious leaders about America is automatically truth. It's even in the Koran. Anyone who does not believe in the teachings of the Muslim faith is to die.

Reason #3: Their society is extra conservative. Because of our liberal ways they feel threatened by our belief in freedom. We give rights to a criminal who's murdered 3 children. In their society that person is decapitated or hung, beaten, and then dragged through the streets. Women are stoned to death for having a child out of wedlock (adultery).

There you have it.

[kami]

Heh, ok Pyrex, first off, muslims do not hate christians or jews because they are christians or jews. Sure there are zealous leaders in the muslim world that hates the western world for various reasons but there are christian zealots who have the same thoughts and prejudices against the muslim world. You just can't generalize it like that.
The religion of Islam does not say that you should hate America. Oh and by the way Christ refers to Jesus, he's a christian prophet, don't say muslims love Jesus, that would really piss them off.
Their governments might be corrupt and they might teach out that Americans are evil, but aren't you doing the same? Atleast that's what Bush is doing, with his ?Axis of Evil? declarations.
The American society is really conservative as well, just think it through a bit and you'll see what I mean.
So what I'm basically saying is, don't hate Islam, it's not the religion that's wrong. Many of the Muslim leaders might be stuck in the past, but they'll come along. Just think about how it used to be in Europe a couple of hundred years ago.

Second, is it really up to the US to decide whether an armed invasion is necessary? Does Iraq really threaten the US in any way at the moment? There are reasons for 80% of the world to be against a war in Iraq. It's not proven that Iraq has any big storages of hidden weapons of mass destruction.

[KoS PY.nq.ict]

Actually there is evidence that Saddam has all the required materials for a nuclear weapon. Plus, he hasn't proven that all his chemical and biological weapons were destroyed. Honeslty, do you think someone who invaded a country and killed thousands is going to hand over his weapons willingly? Yes you can say Saddam's a good little boy and he learned from his mistake. That's not reality. Everyone saw what Pol Pot did. He was taken care of quickly. Why can't the same be done with Saddam? All we need to do is kill the bastard. The rest should play out.

People don't learn from history. That's why we see this pattern of assholes terrorizing us and everyone else who believes in freedom. Germany didn't learn from WW1 and ended up starting WW2. Saddam didn't learn from Desert Storm and he still preaches hate. Japan on the other hand learned very well. I believe the emperor of Japan during ww2 said after Pearl Harbor, "We've just awaken the giant".


Now kami....how many christian zealots are there here in America. Do you see us dancing in the streets singing "Death to Muslims" ? I think not. Im not hating any muslims. I was simply stating why they hate us. Its the truth. Because we believe in Christ, we're demons. I don't believe I said muslims love Jesus. That would be contradicting everything I've stated. I'm not preaching hate. It's the plain honest to god truth. The Koran does state that anyone who does not practice the muslim faith is to die. PERIOD. GO READ IT.

[Cossack]

To Pyrex I say one thing, "Look at Turkey." They are muslim and rather libral. Today the muslim world is going through a reformation. Back in the old days muslims were alot more civilized than Europeans. They allowed other religions in their empire. The Turks did, the Persians did, the Mughals did, and they Egyptians did.  Until recently a "wahhabist" movement or a radical movement started to gain momentum out of Saudi Arabia. They are the protestants of the Muslim World.

[KoS PY.nq.ict]

Kudos to them...but that's 10% of the muslim world. They've experienced some of our western ideals and have seen how wonderful it truly is. But they still have prejudice feeling to anyone who doesn't practice the muslim faith. The other 90% is ready to rip our nuts off.

[kami]

Saddam might have something tucked away, but it's nothing major, I'll bet my dirty socks on that. And anyway, you need hard proof, right now you have ?soft? proof or what to call it.

Germany didn't learn from WWI because of the French and British. They were too tough on the Germans, Hitler used that in his campaigns to gain strength in a depressed and economically ruined country, it's not as easy as you might think it is. What does the Japanese emperor have to do with anything? He didn't have any control of the country anyway, the Japanese generals were the ones who had power.

There are way more Christian zealots in America than you might think. It's rather scary. You seem to hate muslims, a lot, that's the impression you give. I'll just second what Cossack said about it.

[KoS PY.nq.ict]

I hate no one. Im posting the truth. It sounds like hate to you because you don't understand the severity of the problem. Think about the future. How these actions will affect our future.

[p u n]

1 thing i hate about US, is that they think they own the world. when all they know is what they see in the news.

[Cossack]

There are more examples of libral Islamic states. Kazakhstan, Azerbajian is another example, and so is Egypt. Lets look at why Muslims in my following case Iranians in particualr hate the West. Iranians do not hate us just because we are christian, exploitation is the major cause. When Iran kicked out British oil in the 50s, they were met with great hostility from the west who up until that point had been ripping Iran off immensly. Then the Shah came back to power and let the foreign companies have their way with Iran's oil. This is when the Ayatoullah seized power, to block the west from exploiting them any further.

The original problem does not rely on the difference of religion, but on exploitation. Muslims are angry at their current governments for bending over to foreign intrests. Before Oil was discovered, Muslims and Christians were good together (the occasional war with the Ottoman Empire.) It was China that was exploited. Real Islam professes tolerance. This has been practiced by past Islamic Empires, including the Caliphs, the Ottomans, the Malmukes, the Berbers, and more importantly, the Moores of Spain. As I have said, there is a religious reformation happening in the Islamic world just as big as the reforms Martin Luther nailed to the Cathedral at W?rttenburg. Unfortunently Wahhabism is taking the Islamic worl by storm. It is infectoion is spreading out of the Arabian Peninsula to Indonesia, Algeria, and Syria and Sub- Saharran Africa.

Keep in mind my yummy Py, that Islam was not meant as a hateful religion. Not many public schools in Islamic countries teach hatred towards America. You have heard such cases to be true on the Arabian Peninsula. It is not true in Turkey, Egypt, and The Islamic foreign Soviet Republics (ie Azerbadjian, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan). Where exploitation happens so does wrath.

[abe]

ummm, i dont think the Koran says to hate americans or christians or jews. in fact, christians and jews enoy a special status in islam as "people of the book" (they are monotheistic) and the koran actually says that any muslim that harms a jew should be pusnished in some medeival way (i forget how). especailly compared to what was happening to jews in europe, this was a great improvement.
and Iran is the only country in the middle east in which actual democracy is practiced. yes, the mullahs have some say in who can run, but the elections actually have an impact.
cossack: you seem to equate 'bending over to foreign interests' with opening oil fields to foreign companies. none of these oilrich mideast countries would be able to extract and process oil without western help. i dont think many kuwaitis or qataris feel exploited. kuwait city was a village surrounded by a mud wall in 1960, now their filthy rich....thats not exploitation.
uzbekistan, kazakstan and egypt are liberal? None of those countries have fair elections and  none of them respect human rights. in egypt u can make jokes about hosni mubarak, yes, but u cant vote him out of office. turkey is a special case, because politically they are in SW europe and not in the mideast. this is because of the 1919 ataturk revolt, which emphasised secularism and western liberalism. finally, u make wahabism out to be some isolated, small-scale protest movement, but it is much more than that. wahabism has been around for 150 yrs and is one of the pillars of the Saudi monarchy. there are other similar fundamentalist sects, like the mahdis of sudan, so this is not an isolated phenomenon. islam today is not the islam of the mameluks or the caliphates. u cant simply say that islam has been a tolerant religion in the past, so muslims cant be aggresive or hateful today. many are. and hatred of the US and Israel IS somthing that is deeply engrained into arabs society...i dont think this is a question of religion, but one of society and culture.

[Cossack]

I do not think I made myself clear. When I meant Egypt to be libral, I meant to say that they are not as religiously bounded as the other Arab countries. When I talk of libralism in the middle east, I talk of how bound they are by wahabism. Kazakhstan does have fair elections. Uzbekistan is a dictatorship, Azerbadjian is somewhere in between. The Soviet Republics are especially libral, because they are not bound by religion and politicaly they are rather leftist. There are exceptions such as Turkmenistan, who just elected their president to be Emporer for eternity. As for the time of the Caliphs, I consider them tolerant in a medieval sense, it is true christians and jews could not gain power, but they were left to live as long as they paid tribute. In the times of the Byzantine Empire, the villages of Eastern Anatolia celebrated the Saracens coming into their villages. Then again, who knows if this is ancient propoganda.

On wahabbism, I did not say that it was some small protest group, I meant to make it sound as big as the reformation, infact I think I said those exact words. Its an epidemic! Hell its becoming a pandemic! Pandemic movements are alot more than small protest groups. I also suppose politicaly Turkey is SW Europe, but it is proof that democracy can work in an Islamic sociotey.

[*DAMN Bander]

Yes those countries are doing that but we can only do so much. We're trying to protect the rights of human life. When someone violates that right they become a target. But we're limited in what we do. If the U.N. had brains they'd help us in cleaning up the corrupt politicians.

Bah. Cuntpussy i suppose u are a 12 year old child that lately was been forced to read some newspapers.

You are trying to protect the rights of human life? Nerd, your goverment once "intalled" the bath party and saddam in IRAQ - so bombing a nation which has to suffer under that regime (wich once was good enuff to fight the "fanatic" mullahs in persia/iran for U.S. and europe - and wich used the gas WE and YOU gave it to them to kill those kurds) doesnt really make the U.S. look like the "Good guy".

AND: the U.S. threats & statements against the UN are the most terrible danger for "world peace" at all! when U.S. says "the UN is crap - we go on our own" why shoulnt the russians or the chinese (checenia/taiwan) also enforce their own regional interests by their own then? if this happens we have a 60 yers draftback in the progress of world-peace. But ur stupid goverment tries to hide non-existing brain by showing muscles and brute power. Thats what i think.
Bush should thank the hell for september 11th cuz it made out of an idiot the most "feared" man in the world.

But being corrupt politicians themselves it doesn't help the situation. Why say Saddam has done nothing wrong when he has in fact...YES ITS PROVEN...violated the weapons of mass destruction rule that was placed on him after Desert Storm?  The reason its there....TO PREVENT THE ASSHOLE FROM STARTING ANOTHER WAR. He's capable of doing it so whats to stop him from doing it again? Sanctions? HAH....U.N. slaps on the wrist? HAH. We need to do it. Is it the wrong time? Possibly. We should be more worried about our economy at the moment then shoving a gun in Saddam's ass. But that would be giving him enough time to construct his nuclear weapons. Again...IT'S BEEN PROVEN...HE HAS THE MATERIALS AND HE WILL MAKE THEM. Someone who knocks off a portion of their country's population is most likely to have means of making large scale weapons. Stop patting Saddam's ass and start reaming.

Really poor cuntpussy. In fact: repeating bullshit 3 times, doesnt make it smell better. Most of ur blahblah i already commented before. The weapon-inspection didnt show any real "prooves" and if saddam HAS mass destruction weapons WHY didnt he already USE em on u while the FIRST gulf-war? humm? sometimes i think americans refuse to accept logical thinking. If he would use that shit on u he would get nuked his ass off. So he never would. And after he NEVER used that shit during desert-storm WHY should he have produced new chemical weapons? just to "have" it??? bah! Saddam stinks but 10 years of sanctions and perma bombings in north and south iraq soest help the people there in anyway. and it also doesnt rise your countrys sympathy in the world.
suffer & colateral damage for the poor - and in the end the "evil leader" dissapears somewhere with a sack of money. Btw.: THIS war would be GOOD for your economy. cuz Iraq has as much oil as Saudi-Arabia (and your goverment doesnt trust the saudi arabians anymore after september 11th - so lets change the gas-station.)

U are the strongest nation of the world and such pussys that u invade other nations only they COULD be a threat on you in some future??? thats really amusing

btw.: the only reason saddam invaded kuweit is that kuweit was a part if iraq before the british colonial times. its a fact that your goverment declared to stay neutral in case an "re-annexction" of kuweit before the first gulf war. i am still questioning myself why the U.S. tricked their old "buddy" saddam back there. maybe the puppet wanted to be independent too much

[*DAMN Bander]

Muslims hate us because we're Christian. They want to wage a holy war against us and jews. They think we're the spawn of satan.

Muahaha! (can this stupidy be REAL?) pussy u dont even check that a huge number of U.S. citizen are mulsims also (LOL) - so what will happen now? a civil war cuz they think u are satan??? idiot! muslims also respect jesus crist as one of the prophets from "the one god" so they also see christians & jews as brothers. But they hate ISRAEL for surpressing palestinians and the U.S. for their "blood for economy" policy (hidden in a really stick "i am the good cowboy" fairytale)

Reason #1: Their religion teaches to hate Americans and their Christ loving ways. They're taught to hate anyone that doesn't practice their specific faith.

Dumbass. The Islam just says that u have right to fight back if u are under attack - not like jesus who preaced love and mercy. AND When The koran was written america was far away from even existing - so why sould islam theach anything at all about the U.S? man -  i have no clue why i am talking to such an idiot here. really. And i dont think "hitting someone before he hits you" is a Christ loving way. Bah. u dont even read your own bible and talk about islam? jeez!

Reason #2: Their government teaches in schools and in mosques about how we're monsters and demons. Muslim religious leaders are more revered than any religious leader is revered in the Christian world. So hearing words of hate coming from their religious leaders about America is automatically truth. It's even in the Koran. Anyone who does not believe in the teachings of the Muslim faith is to die.

Did u see this in a JanClaud VanDamme Movie kid??? thats total bullshit.
I think the only thing u only red is a comic book. go and buy the koran - read it (its only a book) and only speak if u know what u re talking about. u only make u look like an even bigger idiot as u already are.

Reason #3: Their society is extra conservative. Because of our liberal ways they feel threatened by our belief in freedom. We give rights to a criminal who's murdered 3 children. In their society that person is decapitated or hung, beaten, and then dragged through the streets. Women are stoned to death for having a child out of wedlock (adultery).

LOL - they shoot their murders and u make a barbecue with em on the electric chair - or u play the mercymen and inject em some poison.

and wich country do u mean especially? each country has his own law-system, some countries are 50 years back. LISTEn they WANT freedom as we have it but what WE give em is only dictatorship, sanctions and war but no help. thats why they hate you and some european countries (england, spain)

fazit: u have no clue about what u re talking about and an american adult should remove that internet connection from you. u are ashaming the intelligence of your country. better shut up. europa already thinks many of u guys are a little slow but doent proof that fact too harsh please.

tnk god there are nuff americans discussing here where its worth to read their postings. in future i will "ban" yours out of my view cuntpussy. totally worthless fantasy shit man.

Bander

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Bander, have some balls and respond to my early posts, not the easy stuff.

And also, do us the favor of learning a little more about America.  Most states here do not have the death penalty.  That's just one of the many mistakes you make.  Maybe your internet connection should be taken away too, with all the bullshit that you spout like it was truth.

[(SEALs) one]

Well in WW2,

When Hitler invaded Chezoslovakia and took it in 2 days and the Euro Countries(Britain,France, Russia) screamed at hitler and said "wtf u doing", and hitler said "I'm just taking back territory that belonged to us, but lost in WW1"  Than he takes Austria and same thing happens, and finally he invades Poland in 1939 and starts WW2!

Saddain Insane is doing the same thing, saying he has no biocrap and hes trying to scare Europe with "IF you attack us start WW3 and have an Armagedon."

one

[Ace]

Bucc, Bander doesn't respond to good points because he knows he can't. That's why I still haven't heard anything about what I said from him.

AND: the U.S. threats & statements against the UN are the most terrible danger for "world peace" at all! when U.S. says "the UN is crap - we go on our own" why shoulnt the russians or the chinese (checenia/taiwan) also enforce their own regional interests by their own then? if this happens we have a 60 yers draftback in the progress of world-peace. But ur stupid goverment tries to hide non-existing brain by showing muscles and brute power. Thats what i think.

Bander, do you realize that the only reason the UN continues to exist in a meaningful manner is because the US props it up? If it weren't for our support, it would just be another League of Nations. The reason the Russians or Chinese shouldn't and wouldn't act on their own is because we are the biggest, baddest country around and we can determine the outcome of any engagement we are involved in.

[Cossack]

Bander could have been much more refined in your posts. You also are rather ignorant to America. That is besides the point. Bander does have some points underneath his anti american rant. He is correct about what the Koran says, and about the history surrounding Iraq. Do not take what he says about that for granted. As for Ace and Americans, your country is powerful, but not as powerful as you make it out to be. Watch out for the consequences of your actions, it will come to bite you back in the ass. Beleive me Ace, if China and Russia really didnt want the US to do something, they US would not. Either they will economicaly stop them, or militarily, such as in Kosovo. The US wanted NATO to invade Serbia, but the Russians airlifted a whole battalion into Belgrade. China may do something more drastic to get you guys outta Taiwan. Anyhow I have strayed off topic. Russia, or China could really give a shit about Iraq right now, they have enough problems and ambitions (ie expansion into Central Asia.)

Bander try to respond without insults, it really takes away from your credibility. Dont go off on rants telling us that we are stupid, because that is an unfair American steryotype. This also adds to your discredibility.Aber, Bander, schatz, du bist Richtig, die Amis sind bl?d, die Amis sind fesch, und die Amis riechen! Aber, du mu? nicht beleidigst der Amis, die Amis sind ein anst?ndig Leuten. Heh, die Russe hat gut deutsch nicht. Verzeihung!

[abe]

btw.: the only reason saddam invaded kuweit is that kuweit was a part if iraq before the british colonial times. its a fact that your goverment declared to stay neutral in case an "re-annexction" of kuweit before the first gulf war. i am still questioning myself why the U.S. tricked their old "buddy" saddam back there. maybe the puppet wanted to be independent too much

is that how to quote? oh well, wtf....
this is bs, bander. kuweit was never part of iraq. it was administered from Basra during the ottman empire, but it is not as saddam (and qasim before him in the 60s) claims "iraqs long lost province". iraq only began being interested in kuweit when the oil thing took off in the mideast. this "re-annexation" arguement is pure bs and if you believe it, well then you probably also believe that 100 percent of iraqis voted for saddam 2 months ago and that saddam never possesed wmds. the facts are against you.
about the US 'tricking' saddam into invading kuweit, that too is bs. if you read the transcript of this conversation btw saddam and the us ambassador, there is never any subliminal message that invading kuweit is ok. if saddam interpreted anything she said that way then he is a tard. she was just doing her job as a diplomat and kissing ass....saddam mistakingly saw this as a sign of US weakness and lack of resolve. he was wrong and i dont think he will make a similar mistake now.
the puppet was trying to be too independant? yes, exactly. and thats why hes gotta get removed. the US is somewhat pragmatic and we have many dictator freinds. when they step out of line, they need to be dealt with however, and bush is now doing this (albeit 10 years too late). think of this as a mafia flick: the US is the godfather, kuweit pays protection and iraq is a capo that stepped out of line and tried to get his own piece of the action. now, how do you think don corleone is gonna respond?
bander, you have picked at some of py's weaker arguements without going in on any substantiative points that ppl have made on this board and thus contributed absolutly nothing to the discussion. du solltest versuchen eigene argumente zu machen, anstat bei anderen ueber kleinigkeiten zu meckern. uebrigens, dumme amerikaner gibt es ungefaehr so viele wie dumme deutsche oder oesterreicher. es ist unsinn wenn du glaubst, dass alle amerikaner fette arschloecher sind die den ganzen tag jerry spinger sehen. wenn du das glaubst, dann hast du die propaganda die auf deinem kontinent verbreitet wird wirklich gut runtergeschlugt.
btw, cossack...nice german skills. it aint an easy language.