Sensors and camping the new thoughts

[*KillaX69]

I thought that the stream of entries from 2003 was interesting so I though tI would start it again

[*KillaX69]

I think that alot of the talk in the earlier discusion was missing a key point. THat warfare isnt supporsed to be fair. Camping is a great tactic. Using sensor traps is cool! Kill the enemy in any way you can results are all that matter. After the iraq war a captured enemy gen. was interviewed about the destruction of his division by a few spec ops troops in the northern battlefields.
The spec ops troops would use satelite intel to locate the enemy then heli in behind them and destroy thier columns with small a-team recon forces using laser designators and sniper rifles.
During the postwar interview the gen. complained of this tactic.
HE said it wasnt fair that the americans did this to his troops.
It wasnt fair.
This story is great because it illustrates how smart tactics and good team work can defeat a considerably larger force with relativly few casualties
Should we penalize the green berets for camping on the iraqs?
No
In terms of the game GhR(an ultra realistic wargame) this means that as far as I am conserned in a cb any method you use to win is the best method to win and I respect you for using it.
If the game lasts 20 min with two guys camping and finally one guy gets up and moves into a trap then fuck him he isn't patient enough.
If my team sends a sensor guy deep into enemy territory to lay sensors and die then he is a hero and I hope he gets the silver star.(postumously)
If your team advances into my camping team and gets mowed down than you should suck it up you lost you are dead thats life.
Fairness does not come into it.
I think a legitimit weapon should be a suicide belt.
You set it off like a claymore.
Run into the enemy and blow up.
Any tactic or weapon that achieves victory should be used.
Now if you glitch or use cheats thats a different story.
That is a corruption of the realism of the game.
There are really sensors and in the future they will be used heavily by military forces.
A smart camper who brings his team victory is just as cool as a assault trooper who runs into the middle of the enemy and blast them all.
You can cry "camper" all you want but I hear "HERO"

[*KillaX69]

SPAWN CAMPING:
 Another part of this discusionn is SKing or for you newbies SPAWN KILLING
Alot of people feel that this is wrong. Unlike glitching or Blatent tking I think that there is room for both arguments in the game.
Someone who hates SKing will argue that you should stay away from the enemies spawns in order to keep the game more realistic.  Getting shot as you appear on the game board to these people is not fun and it currupts the realism of the game.
 I on the other hand have a different opinion.
I think that flanking an enemy and getting into thier spawns is a legitimate tactic . I equate it in real world terms to attacking an enemy LZ as they fast rope into battle. A smart commander will post elements of his force to LZ security in order to prevent his troops from being attacked as they disembark from thier vehicles. Thats why when somebody says to me "Stop spawn camping" I say "Protect your spawns!"
If you allow your team to be flanked and hit from behind you are not playing smart and therefore I dont even hesitate when I see a spawn appear.
Do unto others before........
You can call me cheap all you want but if my team wins then My Team Wins.
Warfare is about destroying the enemy.
Again I site the earlier story about the Iraqi Gen.
WARFARE IS NOT FAIR
Since I respect both opinions on this matter I think the best solution is to make sure that hosts post whether or not spawn killing is allowed on thier servers.
This is the real solution.
The bottom line is if the host wants to allow it then he can and if he wants to boot an SKer than he can but the crying about it has got to stop.

[BFG]

However people play this game for fun. This is not war, this is a computer game.

And when u sit in the room where the enemys spawn on the prison map on Aramarths Server, and u sit there will full auto SK'ing every soul who spawns, where is the fun? You just take it away.

Sure somtimes its inevitible, such maps as Redsquare or stronghold. Siege - you can''t play it without spawn killing happening.

Of course if u don't like it make sure your team protects your spawn spot. But it still dosn't exactly make for a hugly enjoyable game!

[*KillaX69]

If I had been told about aramaths aversion to SKing I would have respected his booting of me. But I had dropped into a new game that was bloody in general and he did not warn me that he would boot me for SKing. Other servers allow the the kind of activity I was doing. What makes aramarth so special?
He should post his rulz before he penalizes those of us who  have a different and legitimit position on something. If he asked me I would not SK out of respect for his server. But there was no indication of his feelings untill he was caught napping and I SKed his ass 10 times like a little biatch.
So because he was pissed for being fucked up he boots me without giving me a warning that SKing would recieive a boot. I think he is a pussy for doing this.
Either he makes the rules clear in advance or he takes it like a man.
SKing is not glitching.
Many people feel this way.
I will remember aramarth for pulling that shit.
I would have anounced the server rules to him before booting him.

[*KillaX69]

P.S. I think it was real fun to get 28 kills. Your team should of had spawn protection teams keeping me away. Learn to play before you boot guys who are killing you right and left. I tell you what I am not a hypocrit. I will never cry when I get SKed I will try and retake my spawn and ambush the bastards trying to take my spawn. I sure wont kik them like a little biatch who is upset for getting killed in a infinate spawn server.

[BFG]

ok fair cop u didn't know but you can't expect a server to annouce that he dosnt like spawn killers every time some joins? Didn't know he booted you heh..

But still - its a little different from a siege game, or even from flanking round your enemys flanks etc....

I will remember aramarth for pulling that shit.

I expect he'll remember u for it and all

["Sixhits"]

I take a pretty easy line on sking.

Frankly, I think if you can get into a position where you can sk you deserve to score those kills.

I look at it this way: it's unfair to the dude who fought into that position to then punish him for his skill and succes by denying him the fruit of his labor.

I find it rather upsetting when someone complains that I am sking. It's part of the game, and unlike glitching, which gives one an unfair advantage, sks are earned. If I knock out three players to get into an sk position I friggin earned that spot.If I sneaked past your front line and sight your spawn, it's your fault you're getting sked, not mine. Don't bitch. Overcome. Shoot me.

For glitching, I'm not upset by it. I don't consider it cheating, at least most of the time. It can generally be chalked up to a mistake. Often ppl glitch because they are pinned down or don't know that where they are is a glitch spot. Glitch happens. It's entirely another thing if a player knowingly seeks out the appropriate ditch and pings ppl from the safety of the glitch. Rarely, though, do we see such activity.


I think that in general the ppl who complain about skers and glitchers are those that aren't the highest skilled or are new at the game. If someone is glitching, nade the hole. If someone is sking, spot them, prepare yourself, spawn, kill them. If you want to bitch, bitch from killing them. Nothing like killing the glitcher to teach them a lesson.

[gsr]

For what it's worth:

I agree with the previous posts in that much of this is part of the game.  From a practical aspect, what can be done?

Sensors can be turned off via kit restrictions for the host that doesn't like em. Camping, sk's and glitches seem a bit more difficult to deal with.

Personally, I think camping is a viable tactic for defense.  Offence camping? Little value there unless the defense is really aggressive and you have good communication.

Sk's are painful to the spawn,  I hate being killed 3 times in a row by the same person. What are the alternatives? Random spawns might work, but the result is chaos, hard to keep a team together.  A warning on the server is good, if you get to the spawn zone, you turn away.  How far away is OK?  Is letting them run before you shoot em OK?  I agree that spawn protection is part of the game, often easier said than done.

The ever popular glitch.  Seems like every time you go prone someone starts in with it.  Etiquette seems to demand staying away from the garage ramp in MBC and the ditches in Farm Day, but beyond that there are too many supposed glitch spots to keep track of.  Again, I agree with previous - it's part of the game, nade em.  

[~Po~ TiroFino]

I used to really hate spawn killing and getting spawn killed, but now I have a different approach that has made my ghost recon expirience be less stressful.... I don't care as much!

I figured that if someone infiltrates my spawn and my team and I can?t kill him, then deal with the consecuences - and viceversa.

People need to stop complainting about camping, spawn killing, etc. and focus on team work - coordination and improving your own skills.

If there are people out there that love to camp, I say lettem..... it's their free choice... and camping is the least thing we should worry about - hunt the fckers and killem if you can.

On the other hand, glitchin should not be tolerated at all.... Many noobs don't know what this is, and its our job to appropriatly illustrate them on the matter....don't jump on them and make them feel bad about it. But people that have been around more should know better and this should be unacceptable.

On the same line, I hate it when people accuse me of glitchin just because they couldn't kill me.... Obviously that if you are shooting at me, Im allowed to go prone wherever I happen to be in order to avoid getting killed.... very different it would be if i'm proned on a crater or ditch when no one is shooting at me - waiting to kill someone (camping)...that would be flagrantly cheating!

[Po~ReverendMoss]

Anyone who's played with KillaX69 is all too familiar with his win-at-all-costs style. It's just the way he is, and he's correct that he's not alone. Not much can be done with these overly-aggressive players short of hoping they don't cramp your fun (Tiro's correct here in that what kills you makes you stronger - to misuse a phrase - and should you be the brunt of blatant sk tactics, call for help or find a way to deal. It'll only make you a stronger team player).

Sk's be damned - all I can do is what i feel is honorable - should someone spawn on top of me, I'll take em out without hesitation. But I am not one to sit on a spawn site and attempt to win by attrition. I'm probably in the minority in that i try to win the objectives, be they holding the warzone or taking the smoke.
If i see a spawn site, I know that's the enemies point of entry and guard myself knowingly.
I can only hope others play with honor (even as they see it) as well.

[*KillaX69]

Moss's post illustrates the diversity of opinions on this topic that I wanted to get at. I think that in terms of glitching we all have come to a consenses that it is wrong and deserves to be punished.
SKing on the other hand is a wide area of opinion and my major point is that server hosts have a responsibilty to post thier rules and enforce them approppriately. Listen we are all trying to have fun but dont assume that because you feel one way about SKing everyone else feels the same. All these opinions are legit. Thats why if a host asks me not to SK I will stop and attempt to win another way. I would never be so rude as to complain to a host that he wont let me SK. BUT I also wont complain when my team gets overun on the flank and I lose 3 spawns in 3 seconds.
The bottom line is I am a guest on your server and I try to respect the server host as much as possible. My default mindset is win at all cost though so please tell me if my method of "winniing by attrition" is not acceptable on your server.
If a host allows glitching well then fuck him I will tk his ass and get banned I dont care. (I have seen this with one or two newbie server hosts.)

[Brutha]

Yup, killa will try to win the game at any cost, but in his defence, he does respect the houserules of any host. I had a little argument with him on my host some time ago and he did not agree, but played after the rules i set. So, he might be competitive but he is at least honest about it and playes by the rules.

Sk's are hard to deal with because sometimes(like on embassy) the spawns are too close to eachother. Nothing we can do there. Sometimes you dont know where they spawn, but find out after you had some kills...well...nothing much to do there either. Spawn camping on the other hand...come on...Let your opponent round at least ONE corner. It is, as BFG says, only a game after all.

[GhRa> Skipper]

I think killa, tiro, and rev all have good points...  what ever gets the enemy killed and the game won should be what is done, as long as cheating and glitching is avoided.

I know however, that I do sometimes whine when im spawn camped or when people camp cause it really is annoying, and ruins the game, but it is legit.

 

[gsr]

So, let me see if I've got this straight.  The consensus so far seems to indicate:

Sensors: no one has much opinion either way.

Camping: seems to be OK.

SKs: some think it's OK, some don't like it, but it's up to the host.

Glitching: bad, bad, bad.

Well then, how to avoid the glitch? That's the question.  All I can think of is to not go prone behind any incline. This seems to remove many good firing positions but I hate to be accused of cheating. (almost as much as TKing)

[~Po~ TiroFino]

Glitchin... uhmmm...how to avoid it? Good question!

If we know that going prone in some areas is what creates the glitch...then leveling the playing field....coming up with a MOD that will not allow anyone to go prone would solve this..... You may argue against this idea many things.... but I say that if the rules are the same for everyone..and no one can go prone...then the field has been leveled, thus making it fair!
This is just one possibility....but it would take care of glitchin for ever I assume!

[~Po~ TiroFino]

Any other thoughts?

[BFG]

Just one thing... You can glitch when your standing, crouching or lyind down.. Its just most common (and easiest) to do when lying down.

I don't think anyone would accept a bl rule that banned lying down.. firstly how are you going to police it, secondly for most of us glitching isn't an issue. we know how it happens and you don't do daft things like lying sidways against a wall and then try to move backwards!

Also it would change the game beyond messure. it would affect gameplay beyond belief as the distance that fire could be used accuratly would be so much smaller. You would also take out just about any point in being a sniper... list goes on

[Caz]

Just joined and read the views on SK......  Finally someone other than children who understand combat... KillaX69 is correct... And I'm sorry if you do not agree.....   In any combat to win you must take out the enemy....   Your spawn point is your LZ... If you know your playing with someone like KillaX89... Then you better post someone to protect your spawn area....  Out flanking the enemy is rule #1 in combat...  If someone is spoiling your game at your LZ... Then damit send some one back to take care of the problem....   Most of the time a good defense is Offense..  The beauty of Ghost Recon is how realistic they have tried to make them game.... By tying to tie someones hand and saying he cant go into the area where new soldiers are droping in is ridiculous...
When you play siege in GR most of the time.... on D your spawn is near the smoke....   So what the offense is the only one that can SK...

Every one needs to grow up and learn about real tactics in real war...

yours truly   Caz...

[Caz]

What made me post the last message...
Only been playing GR online for the past few months...  And noticed how many people complain about SK.....  Just got done playing siege on map D07 (not sure the name)  But to the point....  I come around a corner in a valley when out maybe 100 meters are at least 8 enemy....  All with there backs to me.....Now what am I suppose to do...  Turn around and go back and try to get in front of them....  Do I shoot over there heads and warn them..... No  I try my hardest to mow them all down.....  I only got five of them before one of them wasted me....  When the game ended....  They all statring crying about Spawn Kills....  Thats what angered me to  join this forum and post my views on the subject...

truly  Caz