*DAMN R6 Forum

After a few discussions and thoughts about the mainseason we came to the conclusion also to award the mainseason winner of the team ladders with a winner medal and entry in the Hall of Fame. We do so to award the efforts that have been put into the mainseason.

The Hall of Fame entry will look like this:

The big season headline and then below it:

GhR Mainseason: Clan XY
RvS Mainseason: Clan YX
-------------------------
GhR SuperFinals: Clan YX
RvS SuperFinals: Clan HJ


No rules are changed for this, we just honor your mainseason performance as well, which may make it even more important to win it, and if you also win the SuperFinals it's great otherwise another clan deserves an entry into the HoF.

Have a nice day,

*DAMN Mauti and the *DBL admin team

Errrr, don't like this.

No other sports put the "regular season" champs into anything like a hall of fame.  If that was the case my Kansas City Chiefs would be considered the best team in the NFL during the 1990's because they had the best overall regualr season record for the entire decade.  But they have always "underperformed" in the playoffs and that should not be rewarded.

Playing regualr seasons has always had the point of seeding your squad higher thus giving you a better chance to win the playoffs.....  It should stay that way.  It "cheapens" the playoff victory by displaying the regualr season champ right next to them in the DBL Hall of Fame.

IMHO...

The reasoning behind this Wickedson comes from several angles:

At the moment it is felt we have an unbalanced system in that the season 'winners' are decided by a handful of games on one given day, and it has meant that the relevance of the 'main' season has been all but removed.

By recognizing the ladder winners we are injecting the need for clans to play - the competition is prolonged and we are giving you the flexibility in competing. The relevance of the season is returned - if you want to win it you need to compete, and there can be no cases of "well we're in the top 6 so we can sit tight and get to the finals"

If it was an 'either/or' situation yes i agree one would be cheapening the other. But before the main even which dominates the season was being 'cheapened' by the finals. By recognizing both the ladder winners, and the super final winners we are recognizing each accomplishment for its achievements- for clans that are able to consistently perform and compete for the duration of the whole season, but also clans that are able to stand their ground and win in the weekend knockout competition of the super-finals system.

I see your point BFG but still think adding a "season champ" category is the wrong thing to do.  10 out of 10 times the best 6 clans make the finals.  If you can find me a season where the best clans didn't make the finals please do so but the whole idea of "sitting in the top six" just doesn't pan out.  It's never happened before there's no sign it could happen now.

So, it comes to who performs in the playoffs.  In any other form of competition the idea of a team hitting their stride at the right time is a reality.  Players who can't perform when the pressure is really on, or there is "no tomorrow" shouldn't be rewarded the same as the ones who can.  No one can explain why some teams perfrom extra special in the playoffs but that's what it takes to be a champion.

When I think of Season X I want to remember the -UnKnowN.[?] clan, or some other talently team that may overtake us in the finals due to some unforseen injury, and how great their championship was.

No offense to the regular season champ....who might beat the shit out of alot of noobs for high sheep bets....and then can't perform when it comes to beating the bigwigs, but I don't want to remember you at all.

+

Back in the day we had minimun cb requirements for all clans to participate in finals.

Does this still exist?  If you think dodging clans to get to the finals is a problem raise the # of required cb's......I think the minimum is 12 now....how bout 20? 

all in all i agree with you... but: that's pretty much exactly what the "Proposal for upgrading the Team ladders to the FattenYourSheep System (http://www.damnr6.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=7713.0) would prevent. you would get awarded more for beating high-ranked clans and less for low-ranked ones already in the mainseason. your clan voted against it, tho...


my opinion to this topic: if you award the mainseason winner also, besides the superfinals winner... you have to upgrade the GhR/RvS Team ladders to the Fatten Your Sheep-System (FyS-System), which i'm all for, to give this decision the last necessary bit of sense.

You get a chorus of cheering from the MP5 clan for this one! :)


*DBL Season 7. BTs beat out superior clans in MP and BoC. ( And they deserved it, they played damn well at the end of the regular season, not taking anything away from them. )


Fortunantely, that's not how it works. You're speaking from the stand point of someone who wasn't around before the finals standpoint. You get an exciting end to the regular season because every clan is fighting for the top spot. If you can't beat the top clans, you've got no prayer of winning.

Thank you for a system that finally makes sense and rewards clans for their play during the regular season.

Not to over shadow typhy's superior post, but sports do recognize regular season winners. In the NHL they recognize the winners of both conferences (regular season).

Can it be that your post is a bit ironical, Flies!?

We often mentioned the clans that had the best streak, most cbs played etc in the season summary.

However seeing how many cbs you may gonna play during the main season should be unawarded? I think to win the main season isn't easy, to win the SuperFinals is even more difficult and needs excellent skills and a bit luck of course because you have only one chance, and then you need to be perfect and if you win both then you are even the master 8)

I think both awards don't make it a flood of awards just 2 per season. Is that much? - Does it make the winner of the SuperFinals look weaker?

On the other side it really pushes the main season again. Not to play a few cbs and then sit and wait to get into the finals. To be number one you have to be active.

Bye,

Mauti

Yeah, and that league has turned out great now hasn't it?

 ;)

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OK, you guys can have your regular season winner icon or whatever...

BUT PLEASE...make the finals winner a much bigger achievement, because it is.  At least print it smaller or something.

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My clan is against any rule changes whatsoever during the season.  In fact I'm very much in favor of the FAT SHEEP system.

But thanks for reminding me how my clan voted.


Merged posts - bfg

I would consider winning the finals a FAR smaller achievment than holding first place through the season. Winning the finals requires not having a life and being able to spend 6 hours online on a Saturday. Winning the season involve constantly winning CBs and beating out quality oponents.

I didn't want to say this, simply because of how rude it sounds, but it's pretty funny to hear a bunch of newbies who weren't in the BL before the finals system ramble on about how "meaningless" it is to win the regular season. Give things a chance before you go straigh to the preemptive whining. What a clan does during a 90 day period is far more important than what a clan does during a SINGLE DAY.

Ok we all have our different opinions and no matter what if you win BOTH you are the king!

I think both are good achievments that are hard to reach, but I agree with Vickedson that it needs more strong nerves to win the SuperFinals while you may can already do a lot of good prework during the mainseason. However the season will show how close the clans will be together at the end and I'm sure that both will be very emotional ;-)

Icons will be different of course, not just in text, let me surprise you.

Bye,

Mauti

first point: if we don't upgrade the system on the GhR/RvS Team ladders to the FyS-System now, the new additional award for winning the mainseason is meaningless! you can play "easy" low-ranked for as many sheep as the limit it allows and stay high-ranked or even win the season. this doesn't really require any skill. FyS-System - NOW. :)

other point: in my opinion, the SuperFinals ARE a much bigger achievement. playing on a SINGLE WEEKEND, with a lot of PRESSURE, against the BEST CLANS of the mainseason... compared to playing a whole season long, against opponents of your choice, whenever you feel like it... etc. ::)

Most major "Sports", award a special recognition to the season winner; in fact Baseball awards a recognition to the winner of every conference... same with basketball, hockey... and in soccer, all major soccer countries award a winner mid-season too, they call it the mid-season or winter champ!

In all, it sounds reasonable to award a recognition to the season winning clan! To make this smaller or bigger..is just pure EGO! so I won't go there .

Im sorry, but yes it has. Btw, admins, is that triple post justifiable? Civic, it makes it meaningless if there are tons of problems on that weekends and having some clans no show. 60 day seasons are harder than 2 finals CBs, I don't much care for finals, but to quote vick that was "back in the day".

When exactly were these magical times before any finals????

Seasons 1-3?  That's really what you're talking about and calling people names over?

Maybe instead of newbie we can start using terms like "burn-out".....But again, not to be rude.

Let's be real.  You can have quite an impressive record over a 2 month season and really be not a very good clan, this may just be my opinion but so be it.  No fako clan wins the finals and that's a fact.

All I wanted to do in objecting to automatically creating two Hall Of Fame awards for each season was to make sure that the finals winner stood well above the regular season winner.

Prince of Wales Trophy, Clarence S. Campbell Bowl, Lord Stanley's Cup....which do you recognize as the best?

No, as in the 6 month season with no finals that was the most fun ever.

A 6 month "preseason", followed by 3 standard seasons ( total well over a year ).


No "fako" clan, huh? What has Core's record been in the past 2 regular seasons? 1-3. Core has won 2 tournaments.

Right now, 1 win is enough to get into the finals. MOD at 1-0 is in the EXACT same situation as Dr at 8-0. Is that fair? Shouldn't Dr be rewarded for going 8-0? With the finals setup, and every clan getting into the finals, the regular season had become totally worthless. It meant nothing. It took 1 CB on the last day to get into the finals, then be in the same spot as someone who'd been CBing all season.

I honestly can't understand what the hell you're whining about. This is best for both of us, you still get your beloved finals, so that you can sit infront of your computer for an entire Saturday, and those of us who enjoy 90 days of fun competition as oposed to 6 hours of bordome on a Saturday have what we like.

Dude, I already talked about a minimun amount of cb's to qualify for finals.  Let me get a partner and all you RVS clans can beat up on me and get that minimun, hahaha.  Whatever, I can jump on my bike for rides to central park or down the hudson if I get bored between matches on that Finals Saturday.......so I don't mind it at all. 

a no finals ladder was alot better. on the other hand awarding both parties, ladder and final winners is good with me. I see the finals as more of a tourney or cup anyway.

-nark.[?]

nark u ass, you're supposed to be on my side.

omg

I think the idea is good, cause sometimes one clan works hard and does a lot of work to make it to the top while the other 3 of the top 4 just do a tad bit of work just to stay at the top 4. Then all the sudden one of those top 4 that was mostly lazy wins after putting very little effort in. It seems kinda dumb if you think about it, but sometimes it's that way. On the RvS Ladder, Dr. has put a lot of effort into cbing, and they should be awarded for that even if they don't win the finals, most likely they won't win, lol, but even so.  8)

Especially after being down under 46 last season.

We've made some improvements ;) Mainly, I have't cb'ed yet.

You shouldn't have said that spike. This will just start my calls for CBing admins again. How can the top guy of the BL not have played a single RvS CB ever.

Ahh not true, I cb'ed last season, you've seen me play FFA's, and as soon as I get my 1337 skillz back I'm going to cb this season. In fact, I think I cb'ed against you last season.

Some rules have changed since then. I don't believe I was directly referring to you either spike.

You wanna cb *DAMN, get three of them online and do it. There were three of them playing last night together.

We have challenged DAMN before.

Crap, I said "most likely they won't win" i meant they most likely won't not win... blah, whatever. I wanna cb Dr. So spike if you guys wanna cb daf, just give us a call, and we'll set up a date or something.  :) normally we're on around 6 p.m. eastern at the earliest. We're suppose to cb Core today though, so maybe some other day in the week. We also need cb ap...   ::) wanna see how pandabear has built up his clan  :D wanna at least have more than 1-0 the entire season and somehow stay in third (unless we moved down) looks kinda gay   ::lol::

wah! someone wants to get a cheap win!

I just figured that DAMN, a clan running the RvS rules with the over ruling power for those rules, should at least know how a RvS CB feels. When BFG did a RvS FFA I don't think he liked how it felt.

I realised that the FFA system we currently have works perfectly for GhR but that personally i think we can make improvements and adjustments to how the FFA works with RvS - but thats something to discuss etc for next season ;)

No. Is that a good enough sign?

I also played a few RvS FFAs and when I asked before this season started if the RvS FFA ladder should be changed to a 1vs1 ladder I got the answer the RvS FFA works fine just needs more activity.

The problem is not the FFA ranking, it's the way how RvS shows FFAs and I also see a big problem that you don't see the ranks of a current round. It's totaly stupid. One solution for the upcoming season could be to make it a short 3 round match. And you just submit the final outcome of the match.

Bye,

Mauti

Also a problem is a lag test. Lag tests require you to restart the match so you can track the scores for the real games only. But by reseting the match you reintroduce the chance of bugs and lag. It's crazy shit. Overall I don't know how good RvS FFAs could get. The people who win often do so by moving very slow, and that is just no fun. In 1vs1 there aren't any maps small enough.

The only thing we could hope for would be a RvS DBL Map Pack-like thing for FFAs. Extremely close quarters and equal spawns.

well, Single Room, Double Room and the like would be perfect for that.

Maybe we could introduce some of the old Rogue Spear maps likes Maze, Storage Depot, Chemical Compoud and the likes. There already are a few on the RvS AS game, and there is a map pack for those maps on RvS, but they are a bit buggy. Maybe someone could fix that up so we can use it as a FFA mappack. And Maybe FFA games could be limited to about 4 or so people since there's 4 ranks on the FFA ladder scores. It would be easier to know who got which place in stead of putting in 10 names for people that lost. lol. Just an idea.   ;)

People would camp CC and Storage in RvS. I think we need some new original no place to hide FFA maps for Rvs. I would also ban the HBS from FFAs if I wanted no campers at all.

I know that I feel safer in an FFA with an hbs. Without it I would def camp.

You use HBS when running around?

If you know that theres only one or two other people left on the map, and you can't hear anyone, why not run, stop, use your hbs? Of course, this could be the reason I'm ranked close to last on the ffa ladder ;D

lol spike. You oddball. I really hate hbs, but at least they aren't as cheap as they used to be on rogue spear. Man it showed things too clearly on that and made it dumb. I still think they are, but surprise and quick reactions are what makes the game more fun and skillful if you ask me.  ;D Then again sometimes you have nothin else to resort to.

Oh ghost, I didn't know ffa were restricted to 8, sorry bout that. lol.

What can we do about making maps without camping abilities? You'd have to make an open field with nothing to hide behind. Maybe... hmmm have you seen those maps with glass walls? You can see every player, but you can't shoot through the walls and well hmmm. Maybe you could do that, lol. Maybe you could make the maps like a paintball coarse with small bunkers. All in all, you can't stop campers from camping, it's just impossible. I know that in rogue spear camping was less in the smaller maps. it wasn't always that possible. You never know, maybe during the off season you could have a "practice season" on such maps to see what people think of those maps. It's worth a try.

HBS let you know the exact location. You can do the same by learning the sounds of RvS. They put a lot of effort in that. HBS are extremely close range, more so than your ears in that game. There's no point for close range sensoring unless you have a trap set.

I'd have to agree with Myst, HBs do have a pointless use, and if somoene is coming your way and you pull out your hb to find them, it's too late, you could've surprised them greater by waiting for them, that hb only makes extra sound for listeners to use to find your location. The sound effects in the game are awsome, why throw away the chance for a better surprise by using a cheap hb