*DAMN R6 Forum

If i could thank the People who worked to release the inmates at Guantanamo Bay:

Thank-you for finally releasing four British Citizens from Camp Delta after three years of imprisonment. Finally they have been released without charge. They have finally flown home to the safety of a legal system and the rights as humans that they deserve - On arrival in the UK Each man was arrested under Section 41 of the Terrorism Act 2000, covering alleged involvement in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism.

I just hope one day all the other prisoners will be released, unfortunately who knows if or when.

 ::applause::  ::applause::  ::applause::  ::applause::

On the topic of prisoners, where the scientists who were "developing WMD in Iraq" ever released?

This is good news though.

To my knowledge they have conveniently "disappeared" Who knows where the hell they are.

Quick question for you guys: Is any of the following treatment n your opinion humane:

• Being kept in isolation for 18 months in a windowless cell
• Not being able to go outside to exercise etc.
• No guards (replaced with cameras) to prevent any form of human contact - complete isolation.
• Repeatedly injected with an unknown substance that triggered psychosis

I bet our American POW's who were held by the North Vietnamese, many for over 7 years, would have called that kind of treatment "heaven" compared to what they got.  These people are terrorists...it wouldn't bother me in the least if they were tortured to DEATH.  Hey, you may feel differently, BFG...but then again it wasn't your country that got attacked on September 11, 2001.  Sure, not all Americans feel the same way I do about this...but there are a great multitude that do.  ;)

Ghost-sniper they have just been released by the US because they havn't bloody done anything it seems. Surely your government isn't stupid enough to let them go if they [uactually had been involved in terrorist activities[/u]

And sorry but please can you just redefine what you mean when you refer to people as "terrorists" If people fight against an invading force are they terrorists?

And you feel this behavior is justified just because it was done by the North Vietnamese? thats like the "well they do it so its ok if we do" I thought u were all meant to be setting an example to the rest of the world? well lets follow that principle. We have nuclear weapons so its fine if Korea have them. China has an appalling record of human rights abuse, so its ok if we do?  America is polluting the world so its ok if we do? Insurgents in Iraq are kidnapping and murdering civilian contractors - so its ok if we do the same to them?

Talk about double standards.

What? all of them are terrorists?? Nope, don't believe that. Where are the evidence? And hang on there, you justify Guantanamo Bay by saying that North Vietnam were worse 30 years ago? You attitude towards this scare me. No, i am not physically scared of YOU, but the whole attitude that you share with so many others in your "glorious" country. Perhaps we should demand that your coutnry disarm itself. Let the UN weapons inspectors in to check your WMD's because you have a lot. And to think that a person with your attitude sits with the power to destroy the planet(I just hope he dosn't believe in the apocalypse...). That scares me.

They might be, and they might not be. Torture is in either case unnacceptable. Thats it. You can't even argue for torture. As soon as you do that, you become like the terrorist.

1. Gonna answer any of the other points we posted or ignore them completely GS?

2. To answer your question. they were arrested under Section 41 of the Terrorism Act 2000, covering alleged involvement in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism... Notice the word alleged Obviously the British intelligence service have about as much respect for the US intelligence as u have for other peoples lives it seems... and they want to do their own questioning to try and find out what has really being going on ... Somehow i don't think the british government would be very popular with the US if they just let them go straight away - kinda makes a mockery of your intelligence system if we did which i'm sure the Bush loving Tony Blair wouldn't want - heaven fobid we damange our 'special relationship' .  plus they want to question the 4 guys about the treatment etc while in 'detention'... considering the alleged crimes committed against our Civilians and the alleged  breaches of the Geneva Convention.

 I didn't say they were all innocent, hell only one of them has been charged with anything by the US which was the fact he was in Afghanistan when the US invaded... and is alleged to have been to a training camp.

I assume they are innocent because we are yet to have been shown or know of a single shred of evidence to suggest otherwise... Over here our jusice system works that we assume people are innocent until proven guilty ... I believe you work in reverse.

I am wondering, what about that one swedish guy? He was released and they could find no evidence against him, so they didn't even arrest him in Sweden. All I saw was a tired young man on TV with no love for America. I wonder why? Being locked in Guantanamo Bay is something you have to expect when you visit your native country.

• Being kept in isolation for 18 months in a windowless cell: not relevant at this point
• Not being able to go outside to exercise etc. : some things are worse than that
• No guards (replaced with cameras) to prevent any form of human contact - complete isolation. not relevant at this point
• Repeatedly injected with an unknown substance that triggered psychosis: that, in my opinion, shouldnt be allowed without proper medical attention, wich i'm pretty sure they didnt get.

Anyway, i'm not as concerned about what is being done to those guys as i am worried about them not having legal advice. Another way to put this is to say that as soon as its a fact that the guy is a scum, wether or not you beat the shit outta him is not going to make me cry. But you gotta be sure its a bad guy first !

Not the right place, or the right time, Dark.

Dark thats not even mildly amusing and is just pretty sick considering the subject. Have you not read anything in this thread? Do us a favor and just delete it.

I would like to say sorry for my inapropriate comments, and would like to apologize to those whom I have offended by saying such silly things, I guess I just got done getting caught up in the Spam box and hadnt adjusted to decent forum behaviour again.

Personally, I think you guys are getting a little stupid.  He just made a joke.  And I thought it was pretty damn funny myself.  I think Brutha and BFG need to get laid.[/size]

Well, GS I guess others see it differently than ourselves, to me life is like a box of choc... wrong movie sorry, Life is like cake put it, "as soon as you're born you start dying, so you might as well have a good time" so life is a big joke,  its always best to have fun and try and see the bright side of thigns rather than dwelling on the negative.  I do (and did) retract my statement because it offended some, but It was a joke and all in fun.  And I am sorry that my fun was not shared by those not of the USA.

Personally I think some ppl need to get some moral values. It is not as if I am not up for a joke, but I get offended when a young person comes in and tries to be funny in a thread that isn't funny. This thread is a very serious one, and Dark will not be allowed to spam this one up just because he wants attention. These next lines go to both(though Dark has retracted his statemen, this is a little reminder for future referance) If you think you can make jokes of the misfortunes of the people currently being held at Guantanamo Bay, sitting there between two worlds, being held without trial, then you are sadly mistaken. Thats shows only questionable moral character. GS, you fail to answer BFG's questions and you jump on the first possible oppurtunity to make fun of us to take the easy way out. Fine, that tells us something about you.

Yes Dark, life always seems brighter when you look at the bright side, but there is no bright side to the discussion of Guantanamo Bay. There is just the America breaking about every human right when it comes to the prisoners. Charge them or set them free. And do not give me more "terrorist" crap, because I have yet to see any evidence brought forth to prove that. They defended Afghanistan when America attacked.

Just because there is worse and similar acts going on in other parts of the world does not condone these actions. Yes. Perhaps America and the UK should have focused a little more on the actual source of Terrorist attacks etc... and rather than going to pick on Iraq perhaps looked at Israel and Palestine.

If you look at your own language and behavior just on this forum i'm astonished you are surprised at the disgust that the world has for the Actions of America..

And all four "FUCKING SCUM BAG TERRORISTS" were released WITHOUT CHARGE because they aren't terrorists. Congratulations to your Intelligence services, perhaps they could try teaching your President to point out the different Continents of the globe before running around accusing people of being terrorists.. Apparently they are spending more time discussing the accusations of abuse and Torture carried out by Americans holding them in Guantanamo bay than anything about them being Terrorists.

If you have no respect for human life why should anyone attacking you, why should any 'terrorist' care a damn? After all GS you said it yourself, Your going to reap what you sow.

Yeah, GS. There are other scumbags out there in this world. Both China and Korea are treating ppl badly and breaking many human rights. This thread on the other hand was not about Korea or China, but Guantanamo Bay. You want to make a "complain about China" thread, i'll join you there. But this is about the way America has treated it's prisoners. You can dislike my feelings as much as you want, but you know what?  I DO CARE about how you get your info, because it's inhumane and something I had hoped we had grown out of a long time ago. Guess it's my socialist upbringing that corrupted my moral sense so that I actually care what happens to so called terrorists.

There should be certain Christian morals out there and general people morals that stop torture and all the hate.  I agree with Brutha and BFG that what goes on at Guantanamo Bay is quite wrong.  Kind of like the Iraqi Prisoner abuse scandal, wtf were those guys thinking???? Honeslty,  they are in the express lane to hell by doing that.

for people torturing, there's neither a heaven nor a hell.

how do you say that, what are they going to stay in a spiritual Limbo for forever? no they are going to suffer like the evil people that they are.

Reading this thread there is a few things i'd like to add... I fully understand GS's views, his country was attacked, and the americans want justice... With that said, Guantanamo is NOT justice, it is inhumane. What i would expect America, as a role model for the whole world (like it or not the U.S. is the role model of most ppl) Is to be the ones to say... well maybe these ppl are terrorists... maybe they helped the guys who did the WTC... But shouldn't america be the first to treat them humane? shouldn't they take the first step, it is a country capeable of doing it. As long as they ignore human rights they are no better than China or North Korea... I would expect america (since all the americans i know, are great ppl) To take the first step, and then let the other countrys follow... But as it looks now... The U.S. Have no hope of stopping terror... All they do is give it new tools...

I remember we had a Dane in guantanamo... He was visiting his native country (Iran) when he was arrested (In iran) on behalf of the U.S. There was given no proof at all... He was kept there for a long time, untill denmark negotiated his release... Hell being trapt in Guantanamo, i would not be surprised if those guys now actually join the Taliban...

Haunted out (for now)

I wonder if Haunted knows you can't have pictures in your signatures here...[/size]

Haunted says sorry and it is removed...  :)

Amazing avoidance of the subject again... But anway

Bobby:

A lot of people are very very worried Bobby. Not sure if you can comprehend what it is like to be put in solitary confinement and unable to leave your cell etc but most people consider it to be a extremely nasty form of torture - and there is great concern for the Psychological state of the recently released men.  Im just going to keep on saying this though - you Reap what you Sow. IF your going to treat people - innocent or guilty like this, then why the hell should the 'terrorists' treat anyone any better? If this is the example that America is going to set why are so many people surprised when other countries/people follow its lead?

This is kindof like the debate about the death penalty. The way I see it, if there was a way of proving somone 100% guilty of a heinous crime, i dont see any problem with the use of the death penalty. Our judicial system is fallible however and there will always mistakes made and thus innocent people will be executed. That is unacceptable and thats why i oppose capital punishment. The same goes for the people at Gitmo. If there was a way of knowing for sure that they were terrorists intent on harming America and its citizens, i wouldnt really care what happens to them, as long as they get what they deserve. But it is difficult to determine whether any one of these prisoners is a terrorist or just some afghan peasant against whom somone had a grudge. Remember that during the war in afghanistan, any arab found there was considered to be al quaida-and i think its safe to say that a lot them were.....but some of them could have been at the wrong place at the wrong time. I would guess that at least 50% of the people there just had bad luck and don't belong there.
I remember reading an article a while back (in the economist i think), where one of the gitmo detainees said he'd be willing to stay there if they brought his wife and kids over too. Thought that was kindof funny.
You guys should all watch this documentary http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/khadr/-its about the canadian guy whose family was involved with al quaida, but who ended up becoming a CIA spy at guantanamo. Its totally fucked up.
If america treads on human rights, civil liberties and personal freedom in the name of fighting terror, even if we kill or capture every terrorist shitbag on the planet, it will be a puric victory.

IF america did that then it would have to kill and capture the very shit bags that are allowing this to happen.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4223561.stm