*DAMN R6 Forum

An interesting experiment: www.betavote.com

Right....
because America is on Mars, not earth, so the rest of the planet does'nt really concern us. I know it must be pretty difficult for you to comprehend, GS, but what happens elsewhere on the planet does end up affecting the US. I think even Pat Buchanan understands that.
And good golly, what a suprise.....the french don't like Bush? I could not be more suprised. I'd prefer making up my own mind about which candidate i prefer rather than voting in function of who the french like, but hey...i'm wierd like that. Face it, dude, Bush is going down in flames and the situation in Iraq isn't helping any more than him shitting all over himself last night. But then again, maybe you we're too busy comparing Bush and Kerry's attire too listen to what they had to say.

I guess its just that the rest of the world sees through the mountains of Bullshit you are fed over there GS and we have a different view because of that...

Then again its not "just about america" The rest of the world cares (more so than some americans it appears) because we don't want some fucking texan idot fucking up the world even more than he has allready done so.

And what exactly is Bush going to do for america? And is it america that your concerned with our simply nothing more than the lining of your pocket?

The place? Nothing. Im sure its a lovely place.

hum...this thread starts looking as yesterday's debate. On one side, a lot of arguments, references to historiy, facts etcs... and on the other, just statements with nothing to back it up, and always the same words (lack of education maybe ?)

I just wanted to quote that brilliant post spike so it comes up again... and people read it again... and GS can ignore it as leftwing bullshit or whatever it is again ;)

just remember, internet votes never are good statistics. They can be manipulated easily, and the participants aren't a representative cross section of the citizens.

Elan

Yeah, I noticed.  ;)

What is wrong with Socialism exactly Ghostsniper? Hmm We are actually democratic countries over here btw, we do actually vote for the leaders of our countrys  -

Our bidding? Yeah we would like you to stop fucking up the world. fuck up your own country GS don't run around the fucking world with your gun ho political antics that have caused more problems and instability across the world than is imaginable.

We would like it if the United States had a President that could use his brain, that could look after the United states and its people, that didn't have this rediculouse idea that it is the "defender of democracy" and has the right to ignore the UN, and the rest of the world.

... well surely she would if she was prepared to live with you.

Some things I have come to realize while being involved with this "international community of gamers":

1. The world tends to see Americans as cowboys. They do not know what percentage of the people here are actually cowboys, but that is hardly relevant is the face of the fact that we have cowboys. This would be entirely irrelevant, but John Wayne displays an interesting set of values that most of the world finds distasteful. GS: texans = cowboys

2. Europe tends to tell themselves that conflicts, and most of them, can be resolved without force. It is as if Europe forgets its own past. They point to their armed forces, and shout at the U.S., look at how small our armies are, we can solve disputes without troops. They forget that the U.S. does their fighting for them now. Remember the Balkans? That was them unable to solve genocide happening in their back yard. The USA took care of it.

3. As the world's superpower, the rest of the world is profoundly influenced by our President. So sue them if they feel it affects their lives. Guess what, it does. I feel they should be less vocal about it, as we are the ones voting, but they aren't likely to shut up (who does, ever?)

4. Maybe that should be point four. No one ever shuts up. Never, in the history of the internet, has anyone chose to shut up when they are told to do so. It is unthinkable to actually act civilized and hold your tongue on the internet. People who come to mind: GS,  sar, Civic, eight, the list indeed goes on.

5. Merely one world war ago, it was europe who had outposts all over the globe, and the U.S. found this very unsettling. The roles are now reversed, and so are the feelings, naturally. I will leave my personal convictions out of this, but I believe that the world's most powerful nation is always, and was always in the past, destined to be destroyed. If the U.S. wants to avoid this, we need to make allies a priority. If we wish to continue on this course, which is very very similar to something I've read in a 2000 year old book, the U.S. is going to make the rest of the world hate it so much that it will also be destroyed. It is part of the plan.


I will stop now, seeing as I just remembered how useless typing anything in the gg actually is. That and if I don't eat soon, I will be taking geology lecture without anything in my stomach. Be thoughtful people, gut reactions are over-used and frankly not worth anyone's time sorting out.

Sometimes force is needed, Somtimes it is not. As to forgetting our past that has not and i doubt ever will. A overwhelming mass of force is not necessarily any better in any way than a smaller more compact but more able force. Yes Aramarth we remember the Balkans... Do you remember that it wasn't just US troops who fought there? ... And to simply say " the US took care of it" seems somwhat simplistic. Knowing when and when not to use force seems to be somthing that is simply to complex for the likes of Bush and many republicans to coprehend. The fact that your "gun ho" antics can acutally make the problem seem worse seems to be again somthing you just can't comprehend.


It matters, like Aramarth said it matters a lot, the whole world is influenced by your president - so we care when you vote (well you didn't but he still got in) an complete idiot. Why be less vocal? we live in democracys where we talk and discuss what we care about - and right now the prospect of the world being damaged by George Bush having another term of office is on our minds.

Um yes, as did the US - the Allies had Posts allover the world. - back then of course we got on a lot better, we had a common goal and worked together to achieve it.

Actually, we did not get along better. If another world war started today, it would not take the UK or the US several years to send troops. They would be mobilized in hours.

The US outposts of that era were mainly coaling stations. I can't defend the methods, because a lot of it wasn't right. Yet that is what we created bases for. Interesting fact: typically, when a colonizing nation leaves, the colony undergoes a civil war. This has not happened with our colonies so much as it has with UK holdings. Heaven forbid we put french numbers in the mix.

This French bashing that you imply just makes you look ignorant and imperialistic. I have French ancestory on my dad's side and I resent the constant slights that Americans give to them. Do they not remember that France was a crucial ally in helping us become a free nation during the Revolutionary War? Just because France doesn't give in to anything our government wants, right or wrong, doesn't make them less our ally. A true ally is one that is quick to help you when you are right but warns you when you are wrong.

Anyway, the whole premise is wrong because Bush doesn't put America's interests first, he has made America less safe. Bush put's American corporate interests first.

cool but you're not alone


nice demonstration of tolerance for someone who wants to install democracy all over the world

I thought wars in afghanistan and in irak was for their interests , at least that's what bush was saying ... now you come up with ... do you mean USA have interests in irak ?

now just chill and and stop believing your bs polls ... how could they vote for someone they don't know ? all we know about the elections is related to irak , we don't know anything about the economic & social context in USA

amen

I see how this is. You would rather kerry turn america into Canada?! America comes first to Americans an then the rest of the world.  

Maybe Kerry recognizes that the US and Western Europe still have a lot of common interests. In this case being a liberal or even a neo-realist is better than being a realist.


Def of these terms so you people dont get confused

Realist:
-Thinks world is anarchic
-Looks out for number one and only number one
-Beleives war is inevitable

Liberal
-Thinks world is anarchic
-Thinks solutions can be accomplished using negotiation
-Thinks it is in self interest to look after others self interest

Yes... So we come all the way back to the fact that most of us here seem to agree that what Bush is doing is not actually benifiting america in the long term but instead causing a greater rift that is causing bigger and more dangerouse problems, where a very small minority seem to think that marching your military all over the world doing the hell what you like is actually helping make america a more secure place.

lol, I deleted that post because I thought it was the most pretentious piece of shit ever. Wish I knew how ot get it back.

Considering the US was tied for 6th (with two other nations) in the 2003 UN Human Development Index, it shows that there are at least 5 nations (Norway and Sweden being the top two) that it would be in the US's interest to become more like. I have a feeling 2004 will bring with it a US drop even further from the top. If we vote for Bush, the US may not even hold the top 10.

To add to what you were saying Cossack I think the realist thinks safety is killing those that try to attack us while the liberal thinks safety is when no one wants to attack us. The difference being that the realist approach is a process that continues into eternity and does not really progress anywhere. The liberal approach, while it is impossible to truly get to where there is no one who wants to attack, at least has that element of progress and becoming more safe.

 :o

i'm from texas!

BS, she's voting Bush because you are!

And Bondo, why the hell would we want to be like those countries? Do you not like where you live? If anyone in America thinks that way then get out!

You see....there is what is wrong. Ppl cant say what they feel, because if they do some underaged fool will come right along and tell them off. Sure living in Norway is good, but I dont celebrate the national day here..17. mai, and Im all norwegian. Why dont I do that? because I dont believe in this nation anymore and I say it. I yell hypocracy and close the courtains that day. I laugh at the celebrations because nobody remembers what it was about. The beatiful thing about living in norway is this: A kid your age dosnt walk up to me when I say this because he knows I can say this...and he respects that I see things diferently.

You've been hanging around GS too long dude. Goto college get an education, and establish your own ideological mindset.

Open your mind man!

</cliche>

Is it just me or are all arguments becoming clich?? I would love to see some of you guys actually do a real debate styled thing because that would prove entertaining and free us of the lame clich? escape routines.

Well Myst...we could all gather in one of the rooms on GR and have a live chat debate with a few people acting as moderators and a few people being the official speakers.

Wow....first off, the votes from other countries dont matter CAUSE ITS NOT THEIR PRESIDENT. Second, u do not have to be 18 or older to vote. Therefor all the spamming noobs from the gaming communtiy who bitch and complain can vote for kerry all they want! I love how everyone thinks they are awesome because they have the blessing of second sight. Everyone on this forum that talks shit about Bush is like a monday morning quarterback. If you dunno what this means too bad for u cause those of us who watch a real mans game do know. Just picture this, you are president of the United States and your country has just be attacked like 9/11. Your country, screaming at you for vengeance and blood, wants you to take all means necessary to strike back. So, most of us here, including myself, wanted the bloody of every middleeasterner after 9/11. So you send troops to attack the terrorist cell responsible. Your intelligence leads you to Afghanistan where you do some damage to the regime, but do not fully destroy it. Your intelligence tells you this cell has gone to Iraq for shelter. Remembering that your people wanted you to do whatever it took to bring justice, you send your troops in. Anyone of us could have done this, so stop fucking saying it was fucking wrong and put urself in his shoes. Dont EVEN begin to say that you would have consulted the UN. Two things, Bush did and no1 agreed with him, but his people wanted blood so he did what was necessary. Second, Rememebr Somalia? The UN fucked that up big time so dont trust the UN. Dont think how you felt now, remember back to 9/12. The day after when i went to school, all those mother fucking middle eastern bastards pulled their kids out of school for fear they would get hurt, and they were DAMN FUCKING RIGHT. Good thing they didnt come back that day, they would have gotten FUCKED THE HELL UP. Think back to that day, i know everyone wanted revenge, vengeance, vendetta. You know you did, so just think, what would u have done if you were president. Include all possibilties in ur decision and when typing what you would have done, include all things that could be possible from this, then if you come up with GODS GIFT TO PEACE then please feel free to type it here so that we can all see it. Before you condemn Bush, think what you would have done and write it here.

Why waste my time on such a frivolous task?

You go Rebel. Why stop with taking out the middle east..why the hell dont we do the whole world? I cant imagine you would be satisfied with less. You justify punishing the whole middle east with that BS of yours there. So basicly what you are saying is that whenever an american soldier goes too far and abuses an Iraqi prisoner its ok for us to condemn the first american we meet. I for one dont want to do that, because I know that most americans out there are civilised and do not mind other ways of thinking. Unless ive been talking to the 20 ppl that think differently of course. What you need to learn is that two wrongs dont make a right". What does that mean? That you have the balls to stand up to someone and say no more violence. Thats what a REAL man does.

As for the rest of the world discussing the election. Everythin america does affects the world, so why the hell cant we debate which president we would like to see ruling america.

Sigh, they all should pay.

so...eye for an eye then?

the only one responsible for 9/11 is Bin Laden. That sucker was trapped in Afghanistan, WTF, i got 150 000 troops in that country, i would have sent everyone of them in those mountains, fuck the warlords ! send the marines, tear down the whole freaking mountains if you have to, but get a hold on Bin Laden.

Id have to agree. But i do feel it wasnt Bush's fault for not getting Bin Laden. He just gives the army the power to attack, from there it goes to the highest ranking officer in the army who goes about following his orders.

lol me spending too much time around GS.

Maybe you should stop sucking Kerry's dick.

Why yes, responding to reasoned arguement with a frank discussion of the homosexual habits of some of the members of this board is a good idea. You will win all your arguements that way crypt. Nice going!

Rebel, there's your fundamental misinterpretation.  Most of us advocating peaceful means and criticizing Bush's impetuous and poorly thought out war(s) completely disagree with you.  After 9.11 I was as appalled as anyone at the terrorist attacks, but my reaction was not to want the "bloody of every middleeasterner [sic]"

I'm on record on this forum in questioning (in Fall 2001) whether even the Afghanistan conflict was appropriate - after all, we killed far more civilians there and in Iraq than terrorists have killed here.  And frankly, I won't sit here and try to argue that the life of an innocent human being is any more important because of their geographic location.

Anyone remember Bush's brief mention last night, while discussing the sanctity of human life (in response to a question of whether US losses were justified) - he characterized deaths of any Iraqis - as "the enemy" - as insignificant.  I wish I could remember the exact quote - because that summed up a lot for me...

I too am on the record here in my reactions after 9/11 in wanting justice, but not vengence. There is a big difference between justice and vengence Rebel. Vengence is wrong, justice is right. Bush was vengeful. Personally, I'd rather have the UN control this country that anyone who simply wanted someone to pay without caring that those who pay were actually guilty. It is funny how our principles go out the window when it is us who are limited by them.

There was no intelligence that the terrorists responsible went to Iraq so that is another part of your statement that is ridiculous. The intelligence showed Iraq as one of the few countries in the region with no connection to Al Queda. Bush had no justification based on 9/11 anger to attack Iraq. Thus we have every right to say he did it wrong and that we would do it better in his place.

Anyway, what I would have done is utilized special forces to target terror cells in Afghanistan and elsewhere, I would have put pressure on the countries that harbor and support countries, but I would have relied on the UN when it comes to regime changes. The UN supported our action in Afghanistan, it is not completely unwilling to fight a war, it is just unwilling to fight a wrong war.

I would have gone to Afghanistan and I would have remained focused on Afghanistan and finished the job there and with the international cooperation it would succeed like the former Yugoslavia has.

On the other hand, if I was President, you can bet your ass I would be doing something about the known threat of terrorism and Al Queda prior to 9/11...possibly 9/11 would have never happened because I wasn't sitting on my ass on my ranch or playing golf instead of reading memos with headlines telling me Bin Laden will attack US with planes and not responding.

Sorry, but your little game of imagination doesn't remove any blame from Bush, it just shows what a fuck up he is.

You obviously have some underlying issues regarding male to male fellatio, but I don't want to get off topic. Judging by the vileness of your remarks, you feel very strongly about this election. What have you done to help get your candidate elected?

lol Spets.  Crypt isn't even old enough to vote.  But I suppose he could start by putting up signs.[/size]

Crypt, the Spam Drop Box is here for a reason.  In a thread lik this, post something constructive or otherwise close to resembling intelligence, or dont post at all. Its good to see threads like this where so far we've almost had something approximating to a sensible and level discussion.  

-Lone

I'm from Texas BFG watch it 8). Cookie is too but she is a disgrace  ;) Anyways spike what you need to realize is when Spetsnaz went off and said: "you have been around GS too long" it's not even about politics anymore that was just an insult. Don't bash anyone for an opinion you can argue it all you want. Opinions are like assholes everyone has one, and they all stink.

I don't think GS would think it's an insult. Also you're off topic for posting about me being off topic, which clearly does not relate to the topic, anyways to get back on topic, 9 out of 10 French agree because they have a vested interest in who the most powerful man on earth is as does the entire free world.

OK.  But, seeing as the international politics of the President of the United States are tremendously and directly germane to people outside of the US, couldn't you understand that some might have rather strong convictions on the matter?

...what?

"Most of us here"...?!  Holy shit.  I can't imagine anyone but the most puerile and truculent countenancing such callous and reactionary behavior.

Dude, that's really fucked up.

Mmm...no.  Wrong.  Sorry.

You sound like you need a sedative, or something.  Ahm...how did these people (US citizens?) have anything to do with the 9/11 attacks, again?

You are seriously fucked up. In fact your behaviour appears quite simply racist and facist - you are blaming an entire race or religeon on somthing that has been done by a handfull of individuals and you seek revenge on women and children? Jesus your no better than the terrorists who carried out the attacks in the first place.

Just Disgusting. Perhaps your goverment should be a bit more concerned about dealing with people like you rather than going of to start wars in Iraq.

Rebel as much as i dislike the terrorist in the middle east and want them brought down, that doesn't mean i am going to attack the ones here. Now that doesn't mean i don't get nervous on plane when someone with a towel on their head is sitting behind me.  ;)

Jesus, just because I'm not old enough to vote (now I have to wait until I'm 21) and I'm not trying to get W elected doesn't take away my freedom of speech on the forums. Oh wait, this is the DAMN forums. It doesn't exist.

Btw..what were you saying about freedom of speech?

I wasn't saying anything about that. Being a peasant on the forums, you can't take anything of what I say serious. The ! indicates more "just kiddingness" than anything. Plus the word if represents 2 situations anyway.

Whatever.

You want to be funny...make sure ppl understand you.

Haha, or at least say something funny.

I know that can be brutal though Crypt, I was 2 months and a week too young to vote in 2000.

Hmm...you sound like Rapid.  I shall take note of this...

Impossible....Rapid doesn't have the kind of money I have.  ;)

Ohhh, touche.   :)

You could be just saying that to throw us off though.

We shall take note of this.

Well everyone thought Typhy was Rapid's bitch at first anyhow (I cant beleive I am even debating this).

you might be saying that to throw us off...you know...this can go on forever and ever and ever and ever...you get my point...and 9 out of 10 french will agree on this....

[size=22]OFFTOPIC[/size]

Hmm, i think im done postiing on these political forums....seems to me im wasting my time. GG, i still stick to my belief that "whoever wins, we lose"

Rebel you tool. You've said that you're done posting so many times, and yet you always come back. Besides, you can't stop posting because people don't agree with you, thats just plain childish.

Almost like Mysterio leaving MP5....  :-X

Nah...im not done with posting, just on these childish political threads....they go no where.

I don't think they go no where per se, it is good to gain an idea of what the other side thinks, in order to understand, and relate to the other side, but also in order to effectively gain an idea of how to counter their ideas.

Get a life....one is needed

I need to get a life because I am educated enough to form a coherent sentence and thoughtfully analyze what you say? Why yes indeed, instead of learning, and understanding the world around us, we should instead "get a life," which would presumably consist of drinking a lot of beer and making stupid and ill informed decisions. Why yes, I would like to become an over weight alcholic nascar fan.

They really do have no point, there aren't enough smart conservatives like GS to have good debates with the liberals.

Then stop posting stupid irrelevent and bitchy commments in them

If they are truly right, they shouldn't need numbers to prove a valid point.

More irrational with every post.  Way to go, dude.

ooOoo talking shit over the forums....GJ Cobra ur a badass!  :o

No, I was talking no shit.  If you have a terrible urge, you can PM me and tell me why you disagree with what I said, but not here, cause now we're
BACK ON TOPIC.

Thanks for saying it for me Cobra.  Lets keep it that way.

Rebel if you actually posted valid and construtive arguments to your points of view you might find that you stop these politica debates from appearing so "childish" to you. Rather than the "im right your wrong" approach its allways a good plan to actually discuss why

I would have thought that the fact that Most people who do not live in America are hoping and praying that Bush does not serve another term as president was actually very interesting and inportant in terms of your Forign policy etc. However if you can do nothing more than  say "i still stick to my belief that "whoever wins, we lose" i wonder why you bother to post here at all?