*DAMN R6 Forum

hey guys who is coming in finals top 4 or top 6 cuz my old clan was in -fA- and stripes told me that was top 6 there coming in finals

4

Personally I think it should be 4 finalist for RvS and 6 for Ghr since it had a bigger turnout of cb's.

voods

The admins approved shortly before the season began to enact an expanded, 3 week/8 clan finals for GhR, and leave RvS alone until it has more clans. These numbers are subject to change, given participation on the ladders. The wording was open ended enough to allow this. ;)

k thx guys :)

really?....8?

hmmm... 8...? So we have a shot still? all be it a long shot but still a shot... and here i was just giving up already. lol.... j/k

Ein

8 sounds fun, it should add a whole new experience to the finals.

There should  be an announcment regarding the finalised structure for this seasons finals soon :) Admins are just finalising a few points...

Do you know what y'all need to do? Play as many cbs as possible. The more you play, the more likely we are to send 8 clans to the finals.

Personally I think that 8 clans in the finals are 4 too much. Given the number of wins it would require to get into 8th place, I think it would be too easy to go into finals.

If we stay at 4, the finals will still be hard to reach, thus being more of an achievement for the 4 clans that DO make it. Something they can be proud of. Hopefully that will encourage clans to cb their asses of to try and make it.

z][t-Magnetic

that depends on how the finals system works and how the clans are matched up... whatever happens there needs to be big advantages for the top ranked clans over the bottom ranked clans or we will find that people will play less and cb less and that that being ranked at the top means less - and therefore dosn't matter.

i can't currently see how a system with 8 clans in the finals would work - if you simply rank 1v8th, 2v7th - what is to stop really good clans being lazy during the season but playing just enough to get to 8th place - then just knocking out a not so good clan that has struggled away all season and taken top spot!!

A 4 clan system is quite simply an elitist plot to keep hold on the finals. The same clans always win, and usually because they simply play the most games. To properly run a 4 clan finals when there are six times that number in clans on the ladder, everyone needs to play the same number of cbs. Everyone is always against a set number of cbs, and any suggestions I have at fixing it to make it all fair. You the league WANT clans to have an unequal amout of difficulty to get points during the season, and yet you want to reward just the clans that play the ladder climbing game.

I will use my clan as an example. We lost to cO in our first cb of the season. They got 50 points. Later, we beat 2RH and got 108 points. Now you can not tell me that it was twice as hard for us to beat 2RH than it was for cO to beat us. Thats utter fraud.

Our most recent cb, we beat Po. We got 180 points. Was it harder for us to beat Po than it was for cO to beat us? We are the second place clan from last season, and this season we sit atop the ladder, and cO is getting absolutely raped with only 50 points for beating us.

The league plays on, and people act as if all of this was ok.

Right now, iMf has a record of 3-6, thats a .33 winrate, and they are ranked above Toxic, who has a 3-1 record (.75 winrate). The only thing that iMf did differently than Toxic was lose 5 more games. They have a higher rank!

Pardon me if I think all of this is totally crazy. Pardon me if I think a team's last game is not more important than its first. Pardon me if I think that playing more games will pay your clan dividends in experience, but it should not give you a free ride into the finals.

My solution is simple. Redesign the system. I can do it in an hour's time, and if you hadn't all had this current system first, you would swear by mine instead. However, I do not have the support of the community, nor the admins, to change our obviously BS season structure. What I did get was a chance to give the rest of the clans a shot. Eight clans will play in the GhR finals this season, and this means that more than just the opportunistic clans get a chance to try their skills in a real win/loss ratio system. The finals are different you see. The clan that wins gets to go on, not the clan that plays more, and the opportunities to play more are barely there.

For contrast, the 6 clan finals that we used to use. After the first round, three clans, THREE are left. Guess what, one clan doesn't get to move on, even though they were not defeated!

Yet more blatent is this fact: instead of letting more people play in just one game each, with single elimination, certain people argue that FEWER clans should get to play in THREE times the games! Our finals are a best of three!! That is a possible 6 games in the finals for the top two placed clans. And the 5th place clan gets NONE.

This was the idea behind the MP finals system. If you win, you keep going. Time is not wasted by having the same two clans face one another again and again, while everyone else watches.

Here is a revolutionary idea. Why not have only the LOSERS watch. Let the less active play. Let the guy whose mother died over the last weekend of the season play. The real honest losers are the only ones who shouldn't get the chance to play.

although i'm all for keeping it simple with 4 clans in finals where you really have to fight to reach and deserve your spot there... what about this solution/compromise?

a 6 clans finals system but not how it was 2 seasons ago... different, more fair. :)

top 2 seeds get a bye in first round, and #3 plays #6, #4 plays #5. then?#1 would play winner of 4-5 and #2 would play winner of 3-6. the finals would all in all take 3 weekends, one for each round.

8 clans would be definitely too much in my opinion.

Ara does anybody knkow what your redesign of the system looks like? I think there is probably a lack of support of it because nobody has a clue what it is! :)  if they do then i'll pull my head out the sand but i really have no idea what this redesign that your suggesting actually consists off!!! :o

There are currently a handfull of clans that are standing a mile apart from the rest of the group - its like the Scotish football premiership - there are just two teams who allways win and nobody else has a chance. - so i do think that a change in the system from what it is currently should be considered in a way of helping level out the playing field and give teams who play a little less cb's a chance to show their skill. but then again this would require a overhaul of the entire BL system.

personally i thought the 6clans system worked out quite well. however things do change - and i think the number of clans in the GhR ladder currenlty, and their ability needs to be looked at, and the system worked accordingly to give the fairest and most enjoyable result!

Top 2 seeds should not get a  bye in the first round, z][t, if you were to win again, wouldn't you feel better about it if you were the best out of 8 clans, or 4? Or do you just want to not take a chance at more glory.

I have in several places proposed a system that, given a longer season structure, would require each clan to play each other clan once or twice, and then allow a set number of games beyond that amount. Never would two clans meet more than twice (or three times with the double per clan model) in a season. The clans who move on to finals would earn the right by win/loss ratio alone. They could not benefit themselves by playing only weak clans, or by winning only games against the top ranked clans at the end of the season.

Beyond this simple proposal, I have a number of slightly more complex solutions to problems that would no doubt be raised. These extra ideas run the gamut from giving a minor advantage for the margin with which you win a match (5-0 is better than 5-4), all the way up to a system of "salary cap" and rosters to balance the power between clans after a season and its finals are concluded (you won! trade a player before next season starts and see if you can win again).

By no means are the "extra" ideas all required, but each has its charm. I would go on and detail everything for you, but I have no guarantee that all my effort would pay off. I need some sort of encouragement to continue before I spend the time. I'm not going to rebuild Mauti's car if hes just going to use it for antitank rocket practice, if you get my meaning.

Oh yeah, you mean the same structure we have for the premiership (football/or what u call soccer) over here... The same structure i have suggested and was rejected becasue people said it would stifle the BL becasue it would limit their ability to play Cbs?

Thats the one. Fact is, it won't stifle cbing. But one can't convince anyone of that to save one's life.

lol. no one is quite correct. I can't see it happening becasue hell a lot of clans want to cb whoever they lke as much as they can... and there of course is the problem of some clans meeting up to actucally do their cbs - but come on thats not inpossible.

one will just hve to sit back and do one's best ;)

Actually, I hear tell that some ones are considering biting the bullet.

Aramarth the current system has been build by the community before season 5. We have thought about many many solutions and this was the best which keeps the freedom of every clan to play when they want to and not when they have to play.

Civic pointed out that sometimes you lose too much points in relation to the points you can earn, this gonna be changed slightly for season 9 if the clan was in the +3+/-4 rank range.

Another reason why a sheduled league wouldn't work out is that we are from all over the world and this would lead to shedule issues between cross continental cbs as we have already experienced more than once in the finals.

About the 50 wins for the first cb. This is a security measure and not an accurate ranking addition.

bye,

Mauti

I knew it would happen, but I really never expected it to be you. Mauti, nowhere in my plans is a schedule used. Someone always has to say schedule when I'm making suggestions... *sigh* Sure, I want you to make it a point to play each other clan. There is no requirement on when. I am sure in a two month time period your two clans can find the time to meet once. If they can't, how in the heck do our finals ever work.

Indeed you didn't talk about set times.  Your idea would lead to fair and objective selected finals, on the other side the clans that get into the finals now have been really working hard to get there and they deserve it.

I see your intentions behind the idea: to get more cbs done and that's always a good one.

Bye,

Mauti

Are you guys scared of having more clans to play against, and possibly clans you never faced during the main season?  Geez, I've never seen so much complaining by a clan about too much competition.

8 clans will be nice, since the first round will be more of a preliminary round to really define the top 4.  Many seasons have gone by where the 4-8 placements have been up in the air, and could seemingly go to anyone.  I think it will be a pleasant change to bring more clans into a tournament style of playing, rather than the majority of the seasons that resembles "team ffa".

.::|N| Noto

OMG Noto...where did that come from? Where is all that complaining you are talking about????
The only thing we have complained about recently is our trouble finding cbs.

We take on anybody, anywhere, anytime. You would know, if you ever played.
And should the admins decide to make it an 8 clan final, we will be ready to face that.
Actually z][t misses a lot of the competition we had last season with BTs, and we welcome any competetion - hell, that?s why we even bother playing.
I just think that 8 clans in the finals makes the finals more "unspecial", since almost 1/3 of the participating clans would be in.

z][t-Magnetic

Mag, I'm not trying to bag on your or your clan, but most of the opposition I have seen has come from z][t.  I don't know why, and personally I do not care, as it pertains to your individual taste and not mine.

If you look at the majority of sports around the world, specifically the U.S., you will find that the "playoffs" usually contain quite a few rounds and began with nearly a majority of the original competing teams.  The National Hockey League and the National Football League here in North America begin playoffs with a majority of the teams, then weed it down.  Personally, I would rather have more clan battles that counted for something rather than for creating points.  The more playoff games we have means that every match is important, no mistakes can be made, and the true skill of a clan can be shown.  The current system merely allows the top 4 or 6 points hogs to go into finals, and two of those clans usually (no one specifically) suck, but they got to the finals by sheer numbers, not skill necessarily.

As you might be able to see, a larger group going into finals helps to really determine the skill levels of the clans that participate.  There are some pretty good clans out there that won't make finals this season simply because they didn't whore points (I'm not blaming or pointing a finger, just stating a point and a fact).

.::|N| Noto

I love the fact that 8 clans may in finals, I personally believe it would make finals a bit more exciting in the end and will add a chance of the underdogs making it on.  It could also give a clan a second chance at winning, something we ( :cO:. ) could have used last season as we could'nt find a cb the last week of the season and stuck in 5th place. I like this idea of 8 in finals.

i know i don't got much to say but in my eyes 8 would be cool ( for your clan(s)) it would make it more funny with more clans in the finals . i would like to see that how it goes. but would it be fair to change it now?


Stripes

Does it make a difference?  Clans that thought they were down and out will now be able to fight their way into finals, and the fight for those new places in Finals should be intense.

.::|N| Noto

There really isn't a question of fairness because that would mean an advantage would need to be give to someone, which currently is not happening.

At the moment i see it as there being just a handfull of dominant clans that are (no offence) in a different league. Where is the fun for the clans lower down on the scale if they simply never get a chance to even get a look in on the finals - as it stands look at the point difference between these clans.

The introduction of some system that opens the finals up to try and extend a greater sense of competition in my oppinion is nothing but good :D

perhaps another alternative like is suggested a while back is to introduce two tiers - like 1st and 2nd divisions - that way giving lower level clans a chance to compete - but also retaining the strengh of the copmpertition between the top teams

I expect BFG to post a more formal result later, but I feel like I should post something.

The original vote to increase the number of finalists on the GhR team ladder was passed 6-2. A new vote was taken, and now the result is nearly the opposite, 5-2 against enlarging the finals. Three admins changed their votes from in favor to against without so much as leaving a sentence in explaination.

So, I suppose your finals hopes are gone if you are not ranked in the top four. I won't say it here out of courtesy, but perhaps on my website I will enshrine the names of the enlightened people who do not stand behind their own votes.

 :o Taking it a bit too serious?  :o

Just read your site ara, you have my support.. . if it's worth anything.  :)

I missed the presence of name calling and bashing though.. .I feed on gossip!!! come on, throw me a bone here  ;D

Ara im not An Admin and i didn't vote on any of this  but i do get to see what is going on and i think this is unfair.

Mauti re-called the vote for good reason and i do not think any of the three admins who changed their votes from the original call did it on a call of a whim. The situation now is different from what it was before and given the different circumstances they have every right to change their votes should they believe that the situation demands so.

You might have noticed the other thread regarding changes mid season - although i agree with a lot of people that the current system isn't perfect, nor do i think that with a week or two left now is the time to overhaul it.

Rather than being 'englightened' they are just different matters of opinions, although i agree with what you are saying in parts i do not believe its giving an entire view of the situation.

How do three people change their minds without so much as commenting on why? I do not exaggerate when I say that they wrote two words to change their votes, and none to set the record straight. This is what I object to. If you think I am objecting to the fact that the vote was retaken at all, you are putting meaning where I do not intend to have it.

For those of you who ran to my site, I have not touched it yet. Got to bring the pot down to a simmer before it boils over onto the stove.

I would expect as much in the real world let alone this virtual community that we spend so much time involved with.  I never question anyone's actions any longer on these forums.  For all I know, they are just some 10 yr old who doesn't know what's going on, or perhaps a 35 yr old getting their rocks off by pissing people off.  And get this, sometimes people just change their minds...

.::|N| Noto

You've now got your bone. The names have been removed to protect the guilty, but I am sure you can have some fun guessing who is who. I never had so many hits on that spam site of mine as I did in the past few days, so I'm happy to post a daily tidbit to keep it going lol.

Ara this is getting ridiculous.

To All Clans, there is obviously a lot of confusion regarding the finals and this should never have come about. For now (now being as short as possible!) hang tight, don't take previous information as being set,  and as soon as possible a definite decision will be made available regarding the number of clans in the finals and how the finals system for this season will work.

Until the issue of the Finals has been clarified im closing this thread as it is rapidly disintergrating towards petty flaming and has become totally unbenificial to all parties.